Senator Harris, welcome to The Daily Social Distancing Show.
(laughs) I know.
I feel very apart and yet close to you, Trevor. (laughs)
It-it has been quite a journey that you have been on.
I mean, it's, what-- 20 months ago,
you were on the campaign trail in the primaries,
vying for the seat as-as president,
and now here you are, just a week away
from possibly becoming the vice president of the United States.
I mean, there are so many other issues
that still need to be dealt with in America,
but coronavirus and the dealing of-- with this pandemic,
it's the issue. And you see it worldwide.
France announcing new shutdowns, Germany as well.
In the rest of the world, it feels like people deal
with the virus, you know?
The nation has an idea of what to do.
It's top-down. Everyone does it.
The people win, they go outside.
If it gets bad, the people shut down a little bit.
But they're managing it.
In America, it feels like it's either--
the argument is all lockdown or all open.
And the Trump campaign is saying, "Well, we're the--
we're the-the campaign of 'open up the country.'"
And they say the Biden campaign--
Biden-Harris want to lock things down.
What-what is the actual plan
for what you want to do when you get into power?
Well, and I appreciate the way you've asked the question--
what is actually at play, right, as opposed to the rhetoric.
What is actually at play is, back in January,
Donald Trump knew the seriousness of this,
knew that it was contagious, airborne,
deadly, five times more deadly than the flu,
and he sat on that information.
He covered it up, and he didn't share it with the people.
Trevor, can you imagine if-if families,
if teachers, if small business owners knew
on January 28 what the president knew
and-and had the ability, therefore, to prepare?
Y-- Having a plan
based on embracing the fact of being honest
with the American people and then embracing science
to-to do what we will do,
which is a-a national strategy for testing,
for-for vaccines-- when we have one, which will be free--
uh, but also dealing with another piece of this, Trevor,
which I-I really want to emphasize.
In many ways, I believe this pandemic
has been an accelerator,
meaning it has accelerated
what was messed up already, right?
So, people who were doing badly before are doing even worse.
You look at the racial disparities.
Across the board, those racial disparities--
be it in health, be it economic racial disparities,
wealth disparities, across the board--
they were bad before,
and this pandemic has made them even worse.
And so when I think about this issue,
I think of it in terms of what the solution has to look like.
And it has to be expanding the Affordable Care Act,
not suing to get rid of it,
which is what Donald Trump is doing.
Joe and I are saying let's expand it.
Joe and I are saying, look, health care,
the body doesn't just start from the neck down.
It's also from the neck up,
and that's called mental health care.
People are going through so much trauma,
even before and especially now.
Let's address it, right?
Um, these are the things that we are focused on,
including lifting back up the economic condition of people.
And so that's on a number of levels.
And you look at the frontline workers--
by the way, 200,000 of which are DREAMers--
and all of those people, mostly women and men of color,
who are the front line,
working to save the lives of perfect strangers
without having paid sick leave,
without having paid family leave,
and without having the appropriate PPEs
to protect themselves.
So part of our plan is to also address that
and to get people the resources they need.
Well, Joe and I have a plan
that's about giving federal grants and support
to small businesses to do things like the plexiglass barriers,
'cause that's an expensive overhead for them,
to have to afford that, right?
To support them so they can reopen and rehire.
Um, but you have to see the people.
And you have to understand their needs
and-and speak to their needs,
as opposed to what this guy in the White House does,
which is he looks in the mirror
and that's who he speaks to full-time.
So-so, are you saying-- if I'm understanding correctly--
that the plan is to open to limit shutdowns
but to give people the tools to open?
Or is it to go shutdown-first approach?
What-what does it actually mean?
It means, first and foremost,
the problem that we are facing
in terms of the economic harm in the shutdowns
is because of the public health crisis,
-and we have to get a handle on that. -Ah.
So we need to have a plan,
which this administration has not had,
for national testing,
increasing the number of drive-through testing sites,
for example. That's-- You want more specific detail?
That's one of the things that we're gonna do.
By making sure that there are free testing,
rapid testing, making sure that when we have a vaccine
that it is distributed and that we also take into account
racial disparities, listening to the experts,
listening to the scientists
and letting that guide our approach
but also understanding
that there are gonna have to be phases to this.
And we're not gonna go from having these spikes in the virus
to just turning on a flip and everything going back to normal.
And so the interim plan, yes,
includes supporting small businesses
with getting them things like support for them to reopen
and rehire and do it in a way that is safe
for themselves and their customers.
And-and not to mention schools,
our teachers and our students.
Part of our plan is to invest in infrastructure.
And so when we talk about reopening
and making it a safe and a-- and a healthy place
for-for whomever, our children or our small businesses...
-we have to have a plan. -Right. Right.
-And details matter. -The, um...
I would love to start at the beginning of the journey
and go...
It's interesting be-being Kamala Harris,
because, according to Trump,
you are crazier than Bernie,
the most s-socialist person in the world.
And then, according to some people,
you are not progressive enough.
Who are you to you? (stammers)
Like, if you are introducing Kamala Harris to people,
who is Kamala Harris and what are you going to represent
when you get into that office?
Let me tell you, I am the child of parents
who fought for civil rights.
I am the-the daughter of a mother
who arrived in the United States at the age of 19
and believed that she and her children could do anything
and that we should never hear no.
And-and so these are some of the things
that have fueled my ambition to fight for equality,
to fight for justice, to fight for fairness.
And when I think about the prospect
of being vice president of the United States,
those will be my values and my goals,
informed by the values that are about understanding the need
to-to fight for the dignity of all people,
fighting for working families,
fighting for the vulnerable and the voiceless among us.
Um, th-these are the things that propel me.
The things that propel me are to fix these problems
in a way that we understand the people behind the issues
and-and not just engage in grand gestures
but engage in what is actually necessary
-to address the needs of the people. -Right.
Um, you know, and, yeah, the-the--
The-These people-- I mean,
I don't pay attention to the name-calling, Trevor.
There are some of us who have lived a lifetime
of being called names, and-and it is predictable
and it is childish, and it will not distract me.
One of the biggest issues that came to the fore
during 2020 was that of racial justice.
It's been a difficult one because of how oftentimes
it is painted as a binary scenario in America.
You know, people go, "All cops," or "No cops."
And that seems to be the argument.
You are somebody who has investigated police departments,
somebody who has held them accountable.
It hasn't been an easy journey in America,
and the attitudes have definitely shifted.
So my question is, how do you think America can move forward
in a world where police are held accountable,
but not made to feel like they cannot do their job?
Right. So part of it is this.
Um, having worked inside the system, I decided
to go in the system to change it from the inside.
And one of the things that I can tell you,
having spent my career there is that there's a term
"accountability and consequence, consequence and accountability."
You hear it used all the time in the criminal justice system.
And almost always, it is directed
at the person who is arrested,
and never at the system itself
and the people who work in the system.
And we have to get to a place of agreeing.
Everyone must be held accountable,
and there must be consequences when somebody breaks the law.
And that includes a police officer,
especially a police officer who's been entrusted
by the public with the power and authority that they have.
And so, the way that I think about it is
that we need greater accountability and consequence,
because, frankly, there has not been.
There's been inadequate accountability and consequence
when there is... when they break the law.
Such as killing an unarmed Black man, Brown man,
Black woman, Brown woman or anybody.
So, Joe and I, for example,
will ban carotid holds and choke holds.
George Floyd would be alive today.
We will create a national registry
of police officers who break the law. Why?
Because often it is the case,
they're not held accountable in court, but they may get fired.
But then they get fired,
they move to another jurisdiction
and get hired there.
We need to be able to track that.
Joe and I are saying, we need a national standard
for use of force. Why?
Because when there is an excessive use of force,
the system asks this question, usually.
Was the use of force reasonable?
Well, you and I know you can reason away just about anything.
-Right. -The more fair and just question
to ask is, was the use of force necessary?
-These are the things we will do. -Hmm.
But in addition, I believe
that we have to reimagine public safety in America.
If we want to achieve safety, it is outdated thinking
to think the way you're gonna do it is
just put more cops on the street.
The way you're gonna do it is, you invest in public education.
You invest in access to capital
for small businesses and for families.
You invest in high rates of home ownership.
These are the things that contribute
to a healthy and a productive society.
With Vice President Biden to President Obama,
he was the one who would whip up the votes.
He would try and create some consensus in Congress, you know?
With, um, Dick Cheney, he was the real president of war.
You know, with Mike Pence, I guess he proofreads the tweets.
I don't know. But the point is,
as vice president, you have a special position.
You have a special relationship with Joe
in that you are trying to get to the same place,
but sometimes, you see the world in different ways.
What do you hope your role will be
in helping Joe Biden achieve what the Democrats
and what the voters have asked of the people they voted for?
That's a great question.
I mean, here, I'll tell you this.
I think that, um,
one of the things I love about Joe?
He had the audacity to say
he was going to have a woman run on the ticket with him,
and then he chose a Black woman.
That was his choice.
And he had the audacity to do that.
He understands
that he and I have very different lived experiences.
And he wants and asked for a partner
who would do this work with him,
-who can give feedback and perspective... -Mm.
...around not only a different life experience,
but joined by our shared values, right?
And so, I think about the work
that we will do together from that perspective,
where it's going to be about a lot of honest conversations
with-with real feedback and perspective,
um, but focused, you know, primarily, of course,
to get back to where we started, what we need to do
to get through the tragedy of the pandemic.
But also, to unify our country,
knowing that we have had to withstand four years
of a president who spent full time
trying to sow hate and division.
-Mm-hmm. -And we need to bring the country back together
around our shared ideals.
You know, regardless of where you live,
your gender, your race, your age,
the language your grandmother speaks,
the vast majority of us have so much more in common
than what separates us.
And Joe and I are very committed
to doing that, which is to unify our country.
My final question to you is...
-your name. -Mm-hmm.
Why does it seem like it becomes harder to pronounce your name
the more conservative a person is?
Because I've noticed that there are some people
you've worked with in the senate...
-Yeah. -...who don't seem to know your name.
Is this strange for you,
or does this, like, just remind you of growing up?
I mean, any immigrant has the story,
any child of immigrants has the story.
How does this make you feel
when you see people fighting about your name?
Well, that's an interesting way to ask the question,
because, um,
when I see the people who have had the experience
of having been given a name from their family,
which is one of the greatest gifts
that a family can give you.
It is the first gift that a child, usually,
when they enter the Earth, receives from their family.
It is usually informed by tradition and love
and the hope and aspiration the family has for that child.
It is something precious and sacred,
and it is a part of their identity.
And when I see people fighting
for the right for that to be respected
and treated in a dignified way,
I applaud and salute that.
Anybody who otherwise, on the other side of that,
wants to play childish games,
as though that-that...
the highest elected leaders should conduct themselves
like they did when they were children on the playground,
well, it speaks poorly of their appreciation
for the responsibility and the role that they have.
And I think it's a reflection of their, um...
their values and-and maturity.
Well, on that note, I thank you for your time.
Congratulations on the journey that you've been on.
-Yeah. -And hopefully, the votes will all be counted.
Hopefully, there will not be an insane amount of turmoil.
And, uh, hopefully, we'll be talking to you again.
-I look forward to that. -Maybe, from, uh,
the journey to the White House.
Thank you so much for your time, Senator Harris.
Thank you. It's good to be with you, Trevor.
Thank you for that, Senator Harris.