- 1992, The Jacksons: An American Dream.
I watch every, like, it's a holiday movie now.
Because it comes on every Thanksgiving and Christmas
somewhere. - Absolutely!
I get to spend those 14 cent checks every year.
- Ooh! - They're great!
- Wow, I didn't even think about that.
- Yeah!
- I still sit and watch all 16 hours every year.
Twice a year.
So you played Jackie Jackson of the Jacksons.
Is it difficult, or is there more pressure,
portraying someone
who actually lived and is still alive
versus a fictional character?
- That's a good question,
and yes, when they're on set looking at you, yes.
- Right! Because the family was there, right?
- Yeah, yeah.
- What was shooting that movie like?
- That was amazing.
The whole process of it was pretty crazy.
The auditions were kinda Broadway-esque.
I say that, never been on Broadway but
from what I've heard.
We had to act, sing, dance, and then do choreography,
all of which, while I was doing sitcoms and stuff,
wasn't really a part of what my mainstay was.
But,
filming it, we filmed in my senior year of high school,
and I actually didn't get to go to my senior prom
because we were working.
- Were you sad or upset about that?
- Nah.
I mean, it was the trade-off, right?
Again, I got to be on TV.
- Also, prom is dumb.
It's just a waste of money.
- That's what I heard.
- You met Jackie?
- I did.
- Did he give you any pointers like,
"Okay, here's how you play me"?
"Here's what to do and what not to do."
- You know, I didn't meet him until after.
- Oh interesting. - Which I was thankful for.
But Jermaine was on set a lot,
and Jermaine's son played him.
- Right. - Played his dad.
It was interesting, it was something that,
once we were cast they kinda trusted us with.
And then a lot of the folks around,
like the choreographer was Michael Peters,
who had worked with the Jackson family,
with Michael for years and years,
so we were kinda molded into
a lot of tape watching, a lot of--
And then just the feel of the family,
like being around some of them,
they're a unique family.
Yeah.
The largeness of celebrity that they had experienced
for so many years was something that,
even having been on TV myself for all my life,
it was just...
I don't think anyone can wrap their head around
what it was like for a Black family
- We have to talk about it, we have got to talk about you
on A Different World.
Dorian,
oh my God,
oh my God!
He was so fine, he was so sweet, and as soon as I think
about A Different World, I think about two things.
There's a Tupac episode-- - Right.
- And I can't remember if this is the same episode or not,
but the moment when Dorian told, ah, ah,
Jada, what was her-- - Lena.
- Lena, yes, yes, yes, that he was celibate.
- Yes.
- That, Jada's response was just so, so good.
- Yeah, it was.
- Did you feel like a heartthrob
when you were on A Different World?
- You know, I was fresh out of high school,
and I literally was just 18.
Not really, because I was working, everybody on the show,
I was the youngest, and you know,
I was a freshman coming in supposedly,
and I was a freshman, I felt like a freshman.
Like, that literally was where my first year
of college was legitimately.
I was going to UCLA part time. - Oh wow.
- And I was working a lot with Debbie Allen actually.
I was doing some apprentice directing behind the scenes,
she was taking me through
some courses of stuff.
So, I didn't feel like a heartthrob at the time.
And it was always super difficult for me
to parallel my life to the character that I was playing,
which was very similar.
I didn't have a lot of time to date,
I didn't have a lot of time to, you know,
coming from set life to my regular life,
I was one who was ready to go to a basketball court quickly
rather than try to go to the mall with everybody else
and chase folks.
So, but that was a long winded answer to no,
I don't think I really did feel like that, no.
- No? - No, 'cause everybody there
was a heartthrob, right? - That's true, that's true,
I mean, you made out with Jada Pinkett
for Pete's sake. - Right?
- So tell me about your most memorable episode
of A Different World.
- Probably the, for doing it.
and then the life that it's had after doing it,
was the episode with Tupac. - Yeah?
- I think it was called "Homie, Don't Ya Know Me"
And I don't ever remember names of an episode
of any show that I've done.
But that one in particular, because yeah, I was 18,
he was this huge hip hop star,
and we were supposed to be at odds
over character Lena, Jada.
And he was great to work, I was kind of nervous,
you know, coming in.
- I bet. - I was like,
I grew up on TV, I didn't really,
I wasn't from the streets or nothing.
(Tracy laughs)
The streets of Warner Brother Studios is lots,
but those streets were empty 'cause they
were shells of houses.
But he was great, he was really cool.
He actually invited me to a Poetic Justice screening
afterwards. - Did you go?
- I did. - Oh my gosh!
- Absolutely, how could I not, right?
- That was gonna be my follow up question
if you said no. - Yeah,
it was an incredible experience, he was great.
I was nervous that maybe we wouldn't get along,
maybe we'd be, you know, but he was fantastic.
And I learned a little bit of the depth of him as an artist,
able to come in a work in something
that was completely different, you know?
- There's lots of reboots happening now.
Would you do a reboot of Dorian on A Different World?
- Why not?
For sure. - Alright.
- Reboots are amazing.
I'm glad they're finally coming around to us.
- I did see a bit of criticism, I guess,
about all of the Black reboots that are coming out,
and somebody was like, "You know what?
"These reboots are great, but I wish that they would invest
"in new Black stories, and new Black sitcoms,
"and new Black movies."
Does that move you any particular way?
- Yes, it does, I can relate to that notion.
But I also, I think that the reason
that people feel like that is because we never really
get the same sample size.
You know, a lot of times, people would,
people complain about, "I don't wanna see
"another slave movie, I don't wanna see another."
But the reason why I think people have that notion
is because there's not enough to balance it.
- Mm-hm, that's a good point. - So, if we are able
to have new projects, and then to watch shows continue
to get redone,
and they seemed to be when all of the rebooting started
all shows that we weren't in--
- Yeah, yeah.
- And then, you know, I think there's enough room
on the freeway for lanes of the new shows
and lanes of paying respects, and allowing the audiences
to see where those characters have gone
and can possibly go to in the future.
- Yeah, for sure. - 'Cause folks are
still acting, that's for sure.
- Still out here. - Yep.
- Still grinding. - Yep.
- A reboot that I am living
and absolutely holding my breath for is Living Single,
a.k.a. one of the best Black shows.
One of the best shows, period, of all time,
in my humble estimation.
I have heard Queen Latifah say flat-out that Friends
was just a complete ripoff of Living Single.
Is that a thing that you have heard or that you feel?
- I've heard it, I don't know.
I mean, I know how people feel about formulas.
Sitcoms in particular are formulas, you know?
Or they have been, I mean,
you take The Honeymooners, and without The Honeymooners
you don't have King of Queens,
you don't have Family Guy. - Yeah.
- And you don't have The Flintstones.
I think imitation is the, what is it,
the biggest form of flattery?
It sucks, because I feel like she felt,
and others felt like that, as well,
because we don't necessarily get the credit
for the origination of an idea,
and that's where the problem is.
It's okay if you copy, it's okay if you borrow.
- Just be real about it. - Yeah, for sure.
- So when you were on Living Single,
you played the role of Ivan. - Mm-hmm.
- As much as I love me some Dorian,
I think that this may be my favorite role of yours.
- Really? - Yes.
And I mean, I'm watching the show
and I'm young, and I'm not fully
radicalized or woke, as the children used to say,
but I'm watching this happen, I'm just like,
"This feels important, some kinda how."
It's so radical, and I hate that it is radical,
but to see a young, handsome man
chasing after Queen Latifah, who was gorgeous,
but was not like conventionally beautiful or whatever,
you know what I mean?
Usually, it's always like some frumpy dude
who has the hot wife or whatever,
but here's young Ivan with his nose wide open
and Khadijah's like, "Go on somewhere, child!
"You're bothering me!"
And I was like, this just feels different.
- Mm-hmm.
- I was like, "Maybe I can get me a Ivan too one day!"
You know, as I think about it, I feel like this show
may have shaped the woman that I became.
Not that this is about me, but.
If anybody ever wants to hear
me talk about that, I'm around.
What was the vibe like on that set?
- That vibe, for me, was incredibly comfortable.
- Yeah.
- A lot of times, coming in,
'cause I never had my own show.
So I had the blessing and curse
of coming in and fitting in.
- Blessing and curse
of fitting in? - Yes, because it's a blessing
to come work with talented people,
it's a blessing to get paid,
it's a blessing to have those experiences.
But it also, as a guest or a recurring,
you don't necessarily get the attention.
It's a machine already going.
Relationships are established. - True.
- Character arcs are already established.
So there's not really a lot of time
to deal with what you got goin' on, you know?
But that show in particular, there was a,
one of my first episodes I was trying to give an ad-lib.
The director didn't really know anything
about my history, and she was like,
"Um, honey, we don't really want you to, you know,
"don't add your own stuff to it."
- Oh, well.
- Queen Latifah said, "Oh, excuse me,
"let him go ahead and do what he wants to do.
"If we need to reel him then we will,"
and I was like--
- Okay! - So that was one of the--
- Come through flexin'! - Yeah, hugely,
and I appreciated that immensely.
And it changed, really, the way that I approached
a lot of my guest work in that sense,
that you get used to being told what to do as an actor,
and sometimes you gotta go ahead and risk it.
I mean, sometimes it doesn't go over as well
if you don't have her there.
- So we have heard that you have a role
coming up on a new project of Kenya Barris'
on Netflix.
Can you tell us anything about it yet?
- I can.
- Ooh!
- I play one of his homeboys from his childhood
named Broadway.
- Broadway.
- Love that name.
- That is such a Black name I feel like.
- Right, right?
It stands out.
It's based on his life,
his family, his experience in the industry
over the past few years.
This show in particular,
I can't wait to see
because watching him mirror
his personal life
with his large, beautiful family,
and then the industry,
the juggling act of a relationship,
a marriage,
is going to be incredible.
- Yeah.
- And the fact that he
never acted,
to be able to step in and dude is talented.
- So Kenya's acting in the show?
- Yes, he plays himself.
- Oh that's exciting.
- Yeah, he plays himself.
So it was fun.
- So speaking of Kenya Barris
and the new Black shows that are coming out,
what excites you about this new era of Black TV?
- We own the perspective.
There's a difference between being hired to be Black
and being able to be yourself.
One of the things that used to always frustrate me
was looking at,
I did a show a few years ago
where the characters were described,
the breakdown was incredibly layered
for my white co-stars.
- Oh really?
- It was such and such was doing this and that
and the parents are this,
they come from this,
they do this,
these are their thoughts,
she does this, that and the other thing.
She's layered, she does this sometimes,
she's upset,
these are her thoughts,
and then when it came to my character,
it was...
He's Black and he's from South Central.
And I'm like, that's--
- That's so messed up.
- That's not...
Black isn't a character.
And being able to sit down and
if you put Black people in front of a camera,
we're Black.
That's obvious.
But that doesn't give you the layers.
And I think what we're experiencing now is
being able to watch us share our layers.
And that's invaluable.