Judy: As we just heard, many of
those prior efforts to pass new
gun laws have hit a wall in the
U.S. Senate and in many state
capitols.
The national rifle association,
or the NRA, has been a key
player in those battles,
particularly at the federal
level.
John yang looks at the
organization and its influence.
John: Judy, the NRA's blessing
or opposition has meant passage
or defeat for gun legislation
over the years, as the group
argues the supremacy of the
constitution's second amendment
right to keep and bear arms.
In a statement today, the NRA
said its "Deepest sympathies are
with the families and victims
involved in this horrific and
evil Karen."
-- Evil crime."
The statement never mentions the
weapon used, saying instead that
while "An investigation is
underway and facts are still
emerging, we recognize this was
the act of a lone, deranged
criminal."
Mike spies has long written
about the NRA.
He is a senior writer at the
trace, a non-profit newsroom
that focuses on gun violence in
America.
We just heard senator Chris
Murphy of Connecticut talk about
what he calls the unbreakable
grip that the gun industry has
on the Republican party.
We have talked about
conversations he has had with it
Republican colleagues to seek
common ground.
The NRA may not be present for
those conversations, but do you
think their influence will be
Mike: To be totally honest with
you, I think it is not.
I think historically, the grip
was a reality.
It up until probably 2016, its
ability to not spend its
opponents in elections, and its
base that it did such a great
job of socializing into this
absolutist idea of the second
amendment was hung over every
gun debate.
I think their influence has been
significantly lessened over the
last few years, linked to their
deep financial troubles, their
demonstrated inability to spend
to influence elections, sort of
takes the teeth out of anything
that they could do.
What was such a force they had
for so long was their messaging
apparatus.
That was largely driven by the
pr firm that was their
contractor for such a long time.
All of the combative messaging,
ads, personalities that people
were familiar with, those were
all created by an ad firm.
That no longer works at the
organization.
Go ahead.
John: But given those changes,
where they so successful at
creating a gun culture in
America at making NRA support a
must-have credential for
conservative politicians that
they influence -- that the
influence continues beyond their
current power?
Mike: Absolutely.
Yes.
I mean ultimately, the machine
works on its own now.
I think actually, what they did
so successfully, and what
Republicans helped them do so
successfully was to socialize
their constituents into this
idea of not just -- socialize
constituents into gun culture,
but also this idea that they are
citizen protectors.
This idea of being a sheepdog
where you are protecting the
helpless flock of sheep from the
wolves that could do harm to
society.
A lot of people have really
bought into that a very potent
narrative.
And I think now, the issue is
that the Republican party,
specifically, is beholden to its
constituents who have been
socialized into that and will
punish them whether the NRA is
involved or not.
John: You talk about the
financial problems the NRA has
been having, the internal
dissension.
Has that shown any sign of
affecting their membership,
support from the grassroots?
Mike: It has.
There are people on the board
now seeking to oust Wayne
Lapierre who is the last holdout
in some ways from the old NRA.
There are members that have
voiced anger and have broken
ranks with the organization.
There is a class-action lawsuit,
I believe that is still going.
It has.
It has definitely resonated.
People feel like they have been
taken advantage of.
There is definitely a desire to
kick the moneychangers out of
the temple.
John: As you say, they have
created this culture, and
created a constituency that
Republican lawmakers still have
to answer to.
Mike: Right.
It is effectively -- it is like
a classic Frankenstein story.
You create the monster, and then
it ultimately, you no longer
have control over it.
And I think that is basically
what happened.
John: Given all that you said
and what has been going on
internally with the NRA, their
convention is coming this
weekend in Houston which is only
about 300 miles from uvalde.
Do you think that what happened
yesterday, the events of
yesterday, will have any change
on the rhetoric on what we see
at that convention?
Mike: I think it will have no
change at all.
I think those who are willing to
talk about it will focus on the
idea of this fallacy that the
school was a gun free zone, and
disregard the fact that the
shooter encountered law
enforcement at various points
while entering the school, and
then after entering the school,
and managing to still kill 19
children.
Beyond that, no.
I don't think there is going to
be -- there is not going to be
any soul-searching, if that is
what you mean.
It is going to be the same as it
always is, and largely the
purpose of that event is to in
some ways be a pep rally.
For the membership and also for
the featured speakers who are
some of the most well-known
Republican lawmakers in the
country, and of course, the
former president.
John: Thank you very much.
Mike: Thank you for having me
on.