[ APPLAUSE ]
>>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. AND WELCOME.NING, EVERYONE.
AND WELCOME.
OH, WE HAVE A SPECIAL TREAT FOR
YOU A LITTLE LATER IN THE SHOW. BUT WELCOME, FIRST THIS MORNING.
IM MEGYN KELLY.
WE BEGIN WITH A WIFE AND MOTHER
CONVICTED OF MURDER.
BUT WAS SHE ACTUALLY GUILTY?
NANCY HAS BEEN BEHIND BARS FOR 14 YEARS FOR THE MURDER OF HER
HUSBAND, ROBERT.
HUSBAND, ROBERT. THERES ZERO DOUBT THAT SHE
KILLED HIM, WITH A HATCHET.
THATS NEVER BEEN IN DISPUTE. SHE ADMITS THAT. IN DISPUTE.
SHE ADMITS THAT. WHAT SHE DOES DISPUTE IS WHETHER
IT WAS PREMEDICATED FIRST-DEGREE
MURDER AS THE JURY FOUND. NANCY CLEEMS SCLAIMS SHE WAS A D
VIOLENCE VICTIM AND THE TRIAL
DID NOT GIVE HER A FAIR SHOT OF PROVING THAT.HER A FAIR SHOT OF
PROVING THAT.
WE HEARD THAT BEFORE IN OTHER
CASES.
BUT NOW, EVEN THE JUDGE WHO
PRESIDED OVER NANCYS TRIAL IS
BACKING HER, ASKING MICHIGAN
GOVERNOR, RICK SNYDER, TO COMMUTE HER SENTENCE FROM LIFE
IN PRISON, WHERE SHE SITS RIGHT
NOW, AND TO SET HER FREE.
I SPOKE WITH NANCY IN A
JAILHOUSE PHONE INTERVIEW ABOUT
THE ABUSE SHE SAYS SHE SUFFERED
AND THE MURDER AND THE TRIAL.
WELL HAVE THAT FOR YOU LATER IN
THE SHOW.
THE SHOW.
FIRST, A LOOK BACK AT THE CRIME THAT SHOCKED THIS UPSCALE CRIME
THAT SHOCKED THIS UPSCALE
MICHIGAN COMMUNITY. NANCY HAS SPENT MORE THAN A
DECADE BEHIND BARS FOR THE
MURDER OF HER HUSBAND, BOB, WHO
SHE SAYS STARTED TO ABUSE HER
JUST TWO WEEKS INTO THEIR
MARRIAGE BACK IN 1973. TESTIFYING IN THE MURDER TRIAL,
SHE TALKED ABOUT THE
RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP.
>> THERE WAS NO ABUSE BEFORE WE
GOT MARRIED.
HE TREATED ME LIKE A QUEEN.
HE NEVER RAISED HIS VOICE AT ME. HE NEVER ABUSED ME BEFORE WE ME.
HE NEVER ABUSED ME BEFORE WE WERE MARRIED.
WERE MARRIED. TWO WEEKS AFTER WE WERE MARRIED,
WHEN HE BEAT THE HELL OUT OF ME,
I WAS IN A STATE OF SHOCK.
>> Reporter: NANCY DESCRIBES
HERSELF AS CATHOLIC.
AND BECAUSE OF HER FAITH, SHE
NEVER TOOK STEPS TO LEAVE HER
HUSBAND.
HUSBAND.
>> A MARRIAGE IS A SACRAMENT.
THATS HOW I WAS RAISED.
THATS HOW MY PARENTS RAISED ME.
THATS HOW THEIR MARRIAGE WAS.
>> Reporter: NANCY SAYS SHE WENT
TO THE POLICE TWICE BUT NEVER
FILED A POLICE REPORT.
AS THE YEARS WENT ON, SHE DESCRIBES THE ABUSE AS GETTING
WORSE.
WORSE.
SHE DECIDED TO FINALLY LEAVE HER
HUSBAND AND PUT DOWN A PAYMENT
ON A CONDO, BUT SAYS WHEN BOB FOUND OUT, HE WAS FURIOUS.BOB
FOUND OUT, HE WAS FURIOUS. ACCORDING TO NANCY, THERE WAS A
CONFRONTATION AND HER HUSBAND
THREATENED HER WITH A KNIFE.
SHE SAYS SHE RETREATED IN THE
GARAGE AND SHE CLAIMS HE CAME
WITH AT HER.
THATS WHEN SHE STRUCK HIM IN
THE HEAD WITH A HATCHET AND
STABBED HIM 19 TIMES WITH THE
SAME KNIFE HE USED TO ATTACK
HER.
HER.
DURING THE TRIAL, PROSECUTORS
ARGUED THAT NANCY PLANNED TO KILL HER HUSBAND ALL ALONG.O
KILL HER HUSBAND ALL ALONG. SHE WAS SEEN THE DAY BEFORE THE
MURDER, DYING THE HATCHET SHE
USED TO KILL HIM.
HER ACTIONS AFTER THE MURDER,
INCLUDING THE CLEANUP AND
COVER-UP WERE ALSO SUSPICIOUS.
AFTER THE CRIME, SEAMAN NEVER
WENT TO THE POLICE.
THEY CAME TO HER AFTER FRIENDS
REPORTED CONCERNS THAT BOB WAS
MISSING.
MISSING.
AND HER OLDER SON, JEFF, A
WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION,
TESTIFIED AGAINST HIS MOTHER.
HE TOLD JURORS THAT SHE SAW HIS
PARENTS ARGUE BUT NEVER SAW ANY
ABUSE BETWEEN THEM. LYNN BRONSON WAS AN ALTERNATE
JUROR.
JUROR. IN THE 2012 INTERVIEW FOR THE
SHOW "SNAPPED" SHE SAID JEFFS
TESTIMONY HELPED THEM CONVICT
NANCY SEAMAN.
NANCY SEAMAN. >> IT WAS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY
THAT DROVE HOME US BELIEVING
THAT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SHE
HAD THOUGHT OUT AND DELIVERED.
>> IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
HE WAS DEAD.
HE SHOULDNT BE DEAD.
NOBODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD
THAT MORNING.
THAT MORNING. NOBODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD.
>> JOINING ME NOW ARE THREE
PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE NANCY SEAMAN
DESERVES TO BE RELEASED FROM
PRISON.
PRISON.
JUDGE JOHN McDONALD WHO OVERSAW NANCYS MURDER TRIAL, KELLYERSAW
NANCYS MURDER TRIAL, KELLY LYNN, WHO HAS STARTED A LETTER
CAMPAIGN ON HER BEHALF, AND
NELLES THOMPSON, A PRISON
PSYCHOLOGIST WHO TREATED NANCY
MULTIPLE TIMES BEHIND BARS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
HERE.
JUDGE, LET ME START WITH YOU.
I PRACTICED LAW FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS AND IVE NEVER HEARD OF A
JUDGE DOING THIS.
HOW UNUSUAL IS THAT FOR YOU?
>> ITS VERY UNUSUAL.
ILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT.
>> WHAT MADE YOU -- YOU OVERSAW
THE TRIAL.
THE TRIAL.
WHAT MADE YOU QUESTION THE DECISION AND THE TRIAL INE
DECISION AND THE TRIAL IN GENERAL?
GENERAL?
>> THERES SO MUCH TO TRY TO EXPLAIN.S SO MUCH TO TRY TO
EXPLAIN.
ILL DO IT AS FAST AS I CAN. THERES NO QUESTION IN MY MIND,
BASED ON THE TESTIMONY THAT I
HEARD, THAT HE WAS A BATTERER.
I DONT THINK THE JURY BELIEVED
THAT.
THAT.
BUT THE ONE GENTLEMAN WHO TESTIFIED WAS A LIFELONG FRIEND
FOR 35 YEARS.
HE SAID, MR. SEAMAN HAD A
VOLATILE TEMPER, WOULD TRY TO
INTIMIDATE PEOPLE.
INTIMIDATE PEOPLE. TALKED ABOUT GETTING MARRIAGE
COUNSELING, HE BLEW UP IN HIS
FACE, SAID, NO WAY.
INDICATED TO HIM, SHE WOULD
NEVER GET ONE-HALF OF HIS
ESTATE.
ESTATE.
THE OTHERHING WAS THAT SHE WAS READY TO LEAVE HIM.HAT SHE WAS
READY TO LEAVE HIM. SHE PURCHASED A CONDO.
SHE BORROWED $10,000 FROM HER
FATHER SO SHE COULD GET AWAY
FROM HIM.
FROM HIM.
>> SHE WAS GETTING READY TO
LEAVE.
SHE WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE,
WHY WOULD SHE MURDER HIM?
>> THATS THE WHOLE POINT.
>> THATS A VERY GOOD QUESTION. THE JURY WOULD SAY, ILL START.
THE JURY WOULD SAY, ILL START WITH YOU ON THIS, JUDGE.
>> SURE.
>> SURE. >> WE CONSIDERED THAT.
WE DIDNT BUY IT.
WE DIDNT BELIEVE HER.
YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS.
>> ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY
DIDNT BUY IT, THEY HAD AN
EXPERT WITNESS, DR. LENOREA
WALKER, WHO WAS AN EXPERT ON
BATTERED WOMENS SYNDROME.
THERES A CASE IN MICHIGAN,
PEOPLE VERSUS CRYSTAL, AND THAT
STOOD THAT THE EXPERT WITNESS
CANNOT OPINE THAT THE VICTIM IS
A BATTERS WOMAN.
>> YOU CAN TALK ABOUT DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE.
VIOLENCE.
YOU CAN TALK ABOUT NANCY.
YOU CANT SAY NANCY DID IT BECAUSE OF THE BATTERING.
>> THE JURY NEVER HEARD THAT.
I HAVE NO QUIBBLE OR ARGUMENT
WITH THE JURY RETURNING THAT
VERDICT.
VERDICT.
BASED ON THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY HEARD.ON THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY
HEARD.
WHAT BOTHERED ME WAS THE EVIDENCE THEY DID NOT HEAR.
>> DO YOU THINK YOU GOT IT WRONG
IN LETTING IN CERTAIN EVIDENCE
AND PRECLUDING OTHERS?
>> I SURE HOPE NOT.
IF I DID, THAT WOULD BE A TRAGIC
EVENT.
EVENT.
>> YOU TRIED TO REDUCE THIS TO A SECOND-DEGREE MURDER CHARGE ANDA
SECOND-DEGREE MURDER CHARGE AND IT GOT UPPED BACK TO
FIRST-DEGREE MURDER BY THE
APPELLATE COURT.
APPELLATE COURT. >> THE COURT OF APPEALS, A
THREE-JUDGE PANEL.
THREE-JUDGE PANEL. TWO SAID I COMMITTED ABUSE OF
DISCRETION, THE THIRD SAID NO,
IT WASNT.
IT WASNT.
>> MOST TRIAL JUDGES WOULD HAVE
WALKED AWAY AND SAID, THATS IT.
YOURE STILL ON IT AND GOING TO
THE GOVERNOR TO TRY TO GET HIM
TO COMMUTE HER SENTENCE.
LET ME ASK YOU, KELLY.
MOST PEOPLE LOOK AT NANCYS
SITUATION AND SAY, OKAY.
HE WAS A BATTERER.
MAYBE SHE KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE
WAS BEATING HER.
BUT HOW DOES THAT EXPLAIN THE
FACT THAT SHE BOUGHT THE HATCHET
THE NIGHT BEFORE?
SHE -- IT LOOKS LIKE SHE WAS LAYING, YOU KNOW, THE FOUNDATION
FOR THE MURDER.
AND THEN, AFTER THE MURDER
HAPPENED, SHE DIDNT CALL THE
COPS AND SAID, OH, MY GOD.
SHE CLEANED UP THE CRIME SCENE.
SHE WENT TO WORK.
SHE WRAPPED HIS BODY LIKE A
MUMMY, ACCORDING TO THE
TESTIMONY, AND SHOVED IT IN THE
BACK OF HER CAR.
PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE SOMEONE
IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT WAS
ATTACKED AND JUST PANICKED.
>> THATS A BIG QUESTION,
OBVIOUSLY.
OBVIOUSLY.
I DONT KNOW.
ONE THING THAT PEOPLE DONT KNOW
ABOUT NANCY IS SHES A SKILLED
CRAFTSMAN, SO TO SPEAK. NANCY TOOK A CLASS IN COLLEGE ON
TOOLS, USING TOOLS.
SHE ASKED BOB TO HELP HER TO DO
THE YARDWORK AND HE REFUSED TO
DO SO.
DO SO. SO, SHE BOUGHT A HATCHET
SPECIFICALLY TO GO AND DO THE
YARDWORK AND TEAR CAKEAKE CARE O
HERSELVES.
HERSELVES.
>> JUST ONE GARDENING TOOL, ON A
SUNDAY NIGHT, WHEN IT WAS
RAINING.
IM NOT TAKING A POSITION.
THIS IS WHAT THE JURY IS
CONCLUDING.
THIS IS WHAT THE PROSECUTIONS
EVIDENCE WAS.
>> IF YOU WERE TO SEE NANCY,
SHES A VERY TINY WOMAN.
I UNDERSTAND THE PART OR WHY YOU
WOULD QUESTION THE TIMING OF
THAT.
SHES A VERY TINY WOMAN.
AND FOR HER TO TAKE AND BUY A HATCHET AND THEN TAKE A KNIFE
AND DECIDE THAT THIS IS HOW IM
GOING TO DUKE IT OUT WITH MY
HUSBAND IN THE GARAGE ON MY WAY
OUT, ITS JUST REALLY HARD TO
COMPREHEND.
COMPREHEND.
THERES JUST -- NANCY IS A VERY INTELLIGENT WOMAN.CY IS A VERY
INTELLIGENT WOMAN.
THERES NO WAY SHE WOULD THINK
ABOUT BRUTALLY ATTACKING HER
HUSBAND WHEN THE TRUTH IS, SHE
WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE DEAD. >> THERE WERE A LOT OF -- HER
SIDE MADE THE POINT THERE WERE
EASIER WAYS FOR HER TO MURDER
HIM IF SHE HAD DECIDED SHE
WANTED TO MURDER HIM IN ADVANCE.
YOUVE EXAMINED HER.
YOUVE TALKED TO HER.
I THINK ALL PARTIES INVOLVED,
THOSE WHO SUPPORT HER AND THOSE
WHO DONT, AGREE SHE WAS A
TERRIBLE WITNESS IN COURT.
SHE DIDNT HELP HERSELF. AND HER DEMEANOR AND THE WAY SHE
WAS, DOESNT MEAN SHES A LIAR.
BUT YOU SEE PATTERNS THAT ARE
CONSISTENT WITH THOSE OF A DMES
UK
UK
DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIM AND ENTELL
US WHAT THOSE ARE.
>> ILL TELL YOU A FEW THINGS. NANCY IS NOT A VIOLENT PERSON.
NANCY WOULD NOT WANT TO HURT
YOUR FEELINGS.
YOUR FEELINGS. AND NANCY IS DEVASTATED THAT BOB
DIED.
DIED.
THATS JUST A FACT.
HOWEVER, WITHIN THIS DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE, HER PRIVACY -- SHE IS A PRIVATE WOMAN.IVACY -- SHE IS
A PRIVATE WOMAN. SHE DIDNT WANT ANYBODY TO KNOW
THAT HER HOME WAS NOT LIKE OTHER
HOMES, HAPPY HOMES.
SHE DEVELOPED A RITUAL.
HER HUSBAND WOULD GO OFF AND
BREAK THINGS.
BREAK THINGS. AND SHE WOULD TRY TO REPAIR THEM
AND FIX THEM UP AS FAST AS SHE
COULD SO NOBODY WOULD SEE IT.
SHE WOULD TRY TO GET IT DONE
BEFORE THE BOYS CAME HOME.
SHE HID BRUISES FROM EVERYBODY.
SHE WENT TO WORK HIDING BRUISES.
SHE DID NOT WANT ANYBODY TO
KNOW.
KNOW.
SHE WAS ASHAMED. SHE WAS --HAMED.
SHE WAS -- >> IT WAS PART OF TRYING TO
PROJECT A NORMAL, HEALTHY LIFE,
IS WHAT YOURE SAYING.
>> THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME. SHE WAS TRYING TO DO THAT.E.
SHE WAS TRYING TO DO THAT. >> THIS IS YOUR BELIEF IN HAVING
EXAM
EXAM
EXAMINED HER.
SOME OF THIS WAS PUT BEFORE THE
JURY AND THEY REJECTED IT.
>>> COMING UP NEXT, WHAT NANCY TOLD ME ABOUT WHETHER SHE FEELS