BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE OPEN TO
HEARING FROM THE OTHER SIDE AS
WELL.
OUR FIRST TOPIC, GUN LAWS.
>> ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE WAKING UP
TO NEWS OF ANOTHER MASS
SHOOTING.
29 LIVES LOST, 29 FAMILIES
SHATTERED IT'S A CYCLE THAT'S
BECOME PREDICTABLE.
>> PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING FOR
ANSWERS IN THE WAKE OF THIS
ATTACK INSIDE A SYNAGOGUE.
>> FUNERALS, VIGILS, THEN CALLS
CHANGE GUN LAWS.
AND THEN, ANOTHER MASS SHOOTING.
HOW ARE YOU?
>> I SAT DOWN WITH TWO PEOPLE
WHO SEE GUNS QUITE DIFFERENTLY.
RHONDA EZEL HAS LIVED ON THE
SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO ALL HER
LIFE.
>> WHAT IS IT LIKE NOW, HOW
WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT?
>> IT'S A LOT OF GANG VIOLENCE.
>> RHONDA IS ALSO A PROUD MEMBER
OF THE NATIONAL RIFLE
ASSOCIATION AND HAS ACTUALLY WON
TWO FEDERAL LAWSUITS AGAINST THE
CITY OF CHICAGO TO PROTECT HER
RIGHT TO OWN GUNS.
>> HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO USE IT?
>> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT, AND I
HOPE I DON'T EVER HAVE TO USE A
FIREARM.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I
DON'T WANT TO BE PREPARED.
>> SHE'S SHARING HER PASSION FOR
GUNS WITH HER 9-YEAR-OLD
GRANDDAUGHTER.
>> WHEN SHE GOES TO COLLEGE,
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A ME TOO,
IT'S GOING TO BE A NOT ME.
>> 31-YEAR-OLD BRANDON WOLF IS A
SURVIVOR OF THE 2016 PULSE
NIGHTCLUB SHOOTING IN ORLANDO,
FLORIDA.
>> YOU REMEMBER THE GUNFIRE.
>> YEAH.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN NOT
ONLY SEE, YOU CAN HEAR, BUT YOU
CAN FEEL IT.
>> TWO OF BRANDON'S BEST FRIENDS
WERE AMONG THE 49 PEOPLE KILLED.
HE'S NOW MADE IT HIS MISSION TO
CHANGE GUN LAWS.
RECENTLY TESTIFYING BEFORE
CONGRESS.
>> PEOPLE WHO SHOULDN'T HAVE
GUNS DON'T GET THEM.
>> YOU WERE THE SURVIVOR OF ONE
OF THE DEADLIEST SHOOTINGS IN
AMERICAN HISTORY, AND YOU HAVE
FOUGHT TO PROTECT GUN RIGHTS
THROUGH TWO LAWSUITS AND WON
THEM BOTH.
WHY AGREE TO SIT DOWN AND TALK
TO EACH OTHER?
AT SOME POINT IN TIME, AMERICA
HAS TO REALIZE THAT JUST BECAUSE
YOU MAY NOT SEE EYE TO EYE WITH
AN INDIVIDUAL DOESN'T MEAN THAT
YOU CAN'T SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE
AND COMMUNICATE.
WE ALL WANT TO BE SAFE.
WE WANT THE VIOLENCE TO STOP.
AND WE DON'T WANT MENTALLY ILL
PEOPLE WHO ARE A THREAT TO
THEMSELVES AND OTHERS TO HAVE
FIREARMS.
THERE'S THREE THINGS RIGHT
THERE.
>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
WE MAY NOT ALWAYS AGREE ON HOW
TO GET THERE BUT AT THE END OF
THE DAY, RHONDA AND I AGREE THAT
WE WANT OUR COMMUNITIES TO BE
SAFER.
>> IF WE CAN AGREE ON THOSE
THINGS, THEN WHY CAN'T WE
ADVANCE THE CONVERSATION.
>> BECAUSE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
AMERICA RIGHT NOW IS ALL
POLITICIZED.
>> ON BOTH SIDES.
>> ON EVERY SIDE.
>> THE CONVERSATION TURNED TO
HOW THE SECOND AMENDMENT SHOULD
BE INTERPRETED.
>> THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT A
REPUBLICAN THING, IT'S NOT A
DEMOCRAT THING, IT'S AN AMERICAN
THING.
>> WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO WOULD
SAY THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS
WRITTEN AT A TIME WHEN IT TOOK
13 SECONDS TO RELOAD A MUSKET
AND THE FOUNDERS NEVER
ENVISIONED THE KIND OF WEAPONRY
THAT EXISTS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
CHICAGO OR AT A NIGHTCLUB IN
ORLANDO.
>> THE SECOND AMENDMENT WASN'T
WRITTEN ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF
FIREARM YOU CAN HAVE.
THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS CLEARLY
WRITTEN AND PUT IN PLACE TO KEEP
THE GOVERNMENT IN CHECK.
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
REMEMBER THAT THE FOUNDERS ALSO
PUT IN PLACE SEVERAL LAYERS OF
GOVERNMENT TO CONTINUE TO
INTERPRET THAT DOCUMENT BASED ON
WHAT'S INFORMING IT TODAY, THE
SECOND AMENDMENT IS NOT GOING
ANYWHERE BUT THAT RIGHT IS ALSO
NOT LIMITLESS, RIGHT, TIT'S THE
SAME REASON YOU CAN'T BUY A
BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER AND FLY IT
INTO WASHINGTON, D.C.
>> ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE
PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE
DAYS, RED FLAG LAWS, COURT
ORDERED CON FI SKAGS.
>> PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM A HIGH
RISK HAVE SEEN A REDUCTION IN
VIOLENT HOMICIDES BY 36%.
>> YOU SEEM SKEPTICAL ABOUT RED
FLAG LAWS.
>> RED FLAG LAWS IS NOT GOING TO
STOP THE NEXT MASS SHOOTING OR
ANY OTHER SHOOTING.
>> WHAT WOULD BE THE HARM IN A
FEDERAL RED FLAG LAW.
>> THE RISK IS DISARMING A
LAW-ABIDING AMERICAN WITHOUT DUE
PROCESS.
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY
COMMITTED A CRIME BUT YET YOU'RE
GOING TO GO INTO THEIR HOME,
YOU'RE GOING TO DISARM THEM.
YOU'RE GOING TO FORCE THEM TO GO
TO COURT, PAY FINES AND FEES TO
PROVE THEMSELVES INNOCENT OF
SOMETHING THEY HAVEN'T EVEN
DONE.
THEY HAVEN'T EVEN COMMITTED A
CRIME.
>> IF I CAN OFFER A STORY.
THE SHOOTER AT PULSE HAD ON
SEVERAL OCCASIONS DONE THINGS
THAT TO OTHER PEOPLE LOOKED LIKE
HE WAS A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND
OTHERS.
ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS THERE WERE
THESE WARNING SIGNS, THERE WERE
RED FLAGS THAT TOLD PEOPLE THIS
PERSON WAS POTENTIALLY VIOLENT.
THERE WAS NO LAW THAT WOULD SAY
IF I WENT TO THE POLICE AND TOLD
YOU THAT THIS PERSON IS
POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS, THEY
COULD THEN GO THROUGH THE
PROCESS OF GETTING A COURT ORDER
TO REMOVE THEIR FIREARMS AND
THEN WHEN SOMEBODY SHOWS UP TO A
NIGHTCLUB HOLDING AN ASSAULT
RIFLE, CAN WE TRULY BE SURPRISED
THAT WE HAD KNOWN ALL ALONG.
>> THERE'S MORE TO THE
CONVERSATION.
WHEN WE COME BACK, WE TALK ABOU
.
>>> WE'RE BACK ON THE 3rd HOUR
OF "TODAY" WITH MORE ON OUR
SERIES "UNITED TODAY."
>> AND WE HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM
NRA MEMBER AND FOUNDER OF
CHICAGO GUNS.
>> YOU DON'T THINK ANY
LEGISLATION WOULD STOP?
>> NO BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE
DAY, WE COULD HAVE ALL THE
LEGISLATION ON THE BOOKS THAT WE
WANT, WHAT PREVENTS AN
INDIVIDUAL FROM GETTING UP,
WALKING OUT THE DOOR, CHOOSING
TO COMMIT THAT CRIME.
WE HAVE RED FLAG LAWS, WE HAVE A
FEDERAL FIREARM LICENSING LAW,
WE HAVE AN AR-15 BAN IN CERTAIN
MUNICIPALITIES, WE HAVE A
MAGAZINE BAN AND YET WE STILL
SEE THE SHOOTINGS AND KILLINGS.
WE ARE THE THIRD LARGEST CITY IN
THE NATION.
WE ARE IN THE NEWS EVERY DAY
BECAUSE OF THE SHOOTINGS.
THIS IS A PRIMARY EXAMPLE.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU PUT
THE SITUATION.
THIS IS A FACT SHOWN AND PROVEN
THAT THE LAWS EXIST AND THEY ARE
NOT WORKING.
>> I AGREE THAT THE LAWS THAT
HAVE BEEN PUT INTO PLACE IN
CHICAGO AND OTHER MUNICIPALITIES
ARE NOT AS EFFECTIVE AS THEY
COULD BE.
SO IF I CAN GO FROM CHICAGO,
DRIVE THREE HOURS TO
INDIANAPOLIS, PICK UP A GUN OF
ANY KIND THAT I WANT AND COME
BACK, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF
HAVING THE LAW IN CHICAGO AND
NOT ACROSS THE BOARD.
THAT IS AN ARGUMENT FOR FEDERAL
LEGISLATION THAT PUTS THESE LAWS
ACROSS THE BOARD.
IT STANDARDIZES EVERYTHING, NOT
A PATCH WORK, A MISMATCH OF
THINGS.
>> THE CONVERSATION MOVED TO THE
ATTEMPTS TO RESTRICT HIGH
CAPACITY MAGAZINES, USED IN SOME
OF THE DEADLIEST SHOOTINGS,
INCLUDING NEWTOWN, PULSE, LAS
VEGAS, AND DAYTON.
>> WHAT ABOUT RESTRICTING?
>> WHY ARE YOU RESTRICTING, IF A
PERSON HAD A TEN ROUND MAGAZINE
AND CARRIED TEN OF THOSE, HE'D
STILL HAVE A HUNDRED ROUNDS.
>> I CAN TELL YOU IN DAYTON,
OHIO, IF A PERSON HAD A TEN
ROUND MAGAZINE AND THE POLICE
OFFICERS WERE ABLE TO STOP HIM
IN LESS THAN 30 SECONDS, 35
PEOPLE WOULD NOT BE KILLED OR
INJURED.
>> YOU LOOK AT LAS VEGAS, AND
YOU LOOK AT THE CASH OF WEAPONS
THAT GUY HAD AND AMMUNITION.
>> HE HAD A CLEAR ADVANTAGE, HE
WAS IN A HIGH GROUND, A LOCATION
THAT HE HAD PLANNED THIS OUT FOR
MONTHS.
SO WE CAN'T FORCE IT INTO THIS
SPACE WHERE WE WANT TO MAKE IT
FIT, BECAUSE NOBODY STOOD A
CHANCE THAT DAY, THAT NIGHT, AT
THAT CONCERT, NOT WITH THAT GUY.
AND EVEN IF THE LAWS EXISTED, HE
STILL HAD BROKEN THEM, RIGHT,
BECAUSE IT WAS THE CHOICE OF THE
INDIVIDUAL.
IT WAS HIS ACTION, RIGHT.
>> WHERE DO YOU THINK WE ARE
FIVE YEARS FROM NOW ON THIS
TOPIC?
>> THE SAME PLACE.
>> YOU'RE NOT OPTIMISTIC.
>> NOT AT ALL.
BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THE MONEY,
POLITICS AND POWER.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING
TO FINDING SOME COMMON GROUND,
WHAT WORKS, IT HAS TO WORK FOR
EVERYBODY.
NOT JUST ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE.
>> YOU KNOW, IF PULSE TAUGHT ME
TO BE ANYTHING, IT WAS TO BE
OPTIMISTIC.
YOU HAVE AN ENTIRE POPULATION OF
PEOPLE WHO SPENT THEIR
CHILDHOODS UNDERNEATH DESKS
PRETENDING THAT A MASS SHOOTER
WAS OUTSIDE AND FIGURING OUT HOW
TO SURVIVE.
I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE
OVER THE NEXT FIVE AND TEN YEARS
IS THAT GENERATION, THAT
POPULATION OF PEOPLE SAYING
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
>> ARE EITHER OF YOU WILLING TO
ACCEPT THAT THIS IS JUST GOING
TO BE THE NEW NORMAL FOR THIS
COUNTRY?
>> NO, I CAN'T DO THAT.
AND I THINK THAT BEFORE JUNE
12th, 2016, I HAD ACCEPTED THIS
WORLD AS THE STATUS QUO THE WAY
IT WAS.
I HAD ACCEPTED THAT I WOULD BE
THE PERSON WHO TURNED ON THE TV
AND WATCHED COVERAGE OF A MASS
SHOOTING AND THEN FLIPPED TO THE
FOOD NETWORK FIVE YEARS LATER,
AND NOW THAT I HAVE SEEN 49
PEOPLE INCLUDING TWO OF THE
PEOPLE THAT MEANT THE MOST IN
THE WORLD TO ME HAVE THEIR
VOICES RIPPED FROM THEM, FROM
SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS
SOLVABLE, I SIMPLY CANNOT ACCEPT
THIS AS NORMAL OR THE STATUS
QUO.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR
NOT WE ARE ACCEPT IT AS NORMAL,
IF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN PUT
IN PLACE TO DO THEIR JOBS DON'T
DO THEIR JOBS, WE WILL FIND
OURSELVES HERE FOR A VERY LONG
TIME.
>> WE AGREE ON THAT.
>> YOU DO AGREE ON THAT.
>> AS WE HEAD INTO 2020, WHAT DO
YOU WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO BRING
FROM THIS.
>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO BE ABLE
TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE AN OPEN
JUST BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT SHARE
THE SAME IDEAS OR YOU MAY NOT
AGREE WITH AN INDIVIDUAL 100%,
DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU CAN'T PUT
IT ALL OUT ON THE TABLE AND SAY,
LOOK, LET'S HAVE A REAL
DISCUSSION BETWEEN REAL PEOPLE,
NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING FED AND
WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD TO
BELIEVE, HOW DO WE FEEL AS A
PERSON.
>> MY HOPE IS PEOPLE ARE WILLING
TO BREAKTHROUGH THEIR ECOSYSTEM,
THEY'RE WILLING TO GET OFF OF
TWITTER, GET OFF OF FACEBOOK,
AND GO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH
YOUR NEIGHBOR.
HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE
PERSON IN THE COFFEE SHOP, HAVE
A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE WHO
DISAGREES WITH YOU.
>> DOES EITHER ONE OR DO BOTH
HAVE A SOLUTION THAT THEY KIND
OF AGREED ON TOGETHER?
>> YOU KNOW, NO.
I MEAN, NO.
THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO, THEY
DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION, BUT THEY
DO THINK, THEY BOTH AGREE ON
THIS IDEA THAT LAWMAKERS SHOULD
DO SOMETHING.
THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
>> IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE
AN INCH.
SHE'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE IN
CHICAGO, SHE'S LIKE, THERE'S ALL
SORTS OF SHOOTINGS GOING ON, I
WANT TO BE PROTECTED.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE HUNTERS
WHO WANT THEIR GUNS, SO THEY
AGREE WE DON'T WANT THE GUNS IN
THE HANDS OF SOMEBODY WHO, YOU
KNOW, HAS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES,
IF YOU AGREE ON THAT, HOW DO YOU
GET THERE IF YOU DON'T TAKE A
STEP IS MY QUESTION, BUT NOBODY
WANTS TO TAKE A STEP BECAUSE YOU
FEEL LIKE THAT'S GIVING IN.
SO HOW DO YOU GET THERE IF YOU
WON'T MOVE, LIKE, I DON'T.
>> THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY
QUESTIONS, BUT WE'RE GOING FO
CONTINUE TO HAVE THE
CONV