CHILDREN FROM PARENTS.
JOINING ME NOW IS THE GATESTONE
INSTITUTE SENIOR FELLOW AND THE
AUTHOR OF THE COMING COLLAPSE OF
CHINA AND THE GREAT U.S./CHINA
TECH WAR, AUTHOR GORDON CHANG.
GORDON, IT’S GOOD TO SEE YOU.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS
LOCKDOWN IN SHANGHAI?
IS THIS EVER GOING TO END?
>> WELL, I’M SURE IT’S GOING TO
END SOMETIME, MARIA, MAYBE NOT
IN OUR LIFETIMES.
WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS FIRST
OF ALL A COUNTRY THAT HAS TWO
VACCINES BUT THEY’RE NOT
EFFECTIVE AGAINST OMICRON BA2
WHICH IS THE SUBVARIANT THAT IS
NOW RIPPING THROUGH NOT JUST
SHANGHAI, BUT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
OF CHINA.
ALSO, WE HAVE A COMMUNIST PARTY
THAT BELIEVES IT HAS NO DEFENSE
AGAINST THIS DISEASE, AGAINST
ISOLATION SO, THEREFORE, THEY
ARE PULLING TOTALITARIAN
MECHANISMS, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT
THEM TO DO.
THIS IS WHAT THEY DID DURING THE
SARS EPIDEMIC.
NOW IT’S GONE ON STEROIDS.
THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT THE
COMMUNIST PARTY BELIEVES THAT
EVERY NUMBER OF INFECTION AND
EVERY DEATH IS A SEVERE TEST OF
ITS LEGITIMACY BECAUSE IT MADE
THIS A TEST OF ITS LEGITIMACY IN
THE EARLY 2020 WHEN IT SAID THE
UNITED STATES WAS NOT CAPABLE.
SO THEREFORE, RIGHT NOW CHINA IS
BEING HELD TO ITS OWN STANDARD
AND IT DOESN’T LOOK GOOD FOR THE
COMMUNIST PARTY.
MARIA: NO, IT DOESN’T.
BUT THE COMMUNIST PARTY IS
COZYING UP DO VLADIMIR PUTIN,
NATO SECRETARY GENERAL JENS
STOLTENBERG SAID FOR THE FIRST
TIME NATO WILL CONSIDER CHINA IN
ITS DEFENSE STRATEGY.
HE CITED BEIJING’S REFUSAL TO
CONDEMN RUSSIA’S WAR ON UKRAINE
FOR THE CHANGE OF TONE, GORDON.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF
THE NATO ALLIES’ RESPONSE OR YOU
APPROACH TO THE CCP?
>> I THINK IT MEANS THAT NATO IS
NOW BECOMING REALISTIC.
I MEAN, THIS SHOULD HAVE
OCCURRED A LONG TIME AGO, BEFORE
THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.
BECAUSE IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT
CHINA AND RUSSIA WERE FIRST OF
ALL EXERCISING THEIR MILITARIES
REGULARLY AND LAST AUGUST FOR
THE FIRST TIME RUSSIANER RUSSIAN
WERE USING CHINESE WEAPONS,
SHOWING THEY WANTED TO GO FOR
INTEROPERABILITY.
THAT MEANS YOU HAD TO ASSUME
THAT CHINA AND RUSH SLAY RUSSIA
FIGHT TOGETHER.
NATO IS BEHIND THE BALL.
RIGHT NOW CHINA IS SUPPLYING
MATERIAL SUPPORT TO RUSSIAN WAR
EFFORT WITH THESE ELEVATED
COMMODITY PURCHASES AND WITH
OTHER ELEMENTS OF CHINESE
NATIONAL POWER.
SO AT THIS TIME I THINK THAT
IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO
REALIZE THAT CHINA AND RUSSIA DO
FORM AN AXIS AND WE HAVE TO
ASSUME WHEN WE ARE ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF ONE OF THEM, WE’RE ON
THE OTHER SIDE OF BOTH OF THEM.
MARIA: YEAH.
AND CHINA KEEPS THREATENING THE
WORLD.
NOW THE CCP IS ACCUSING THE U.S.
AND TAIWAN OF, QUOTE, PLAYING
WITH FIRE AFTER COMPARISONS
BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN WAR ON
UKRAINE AND TENSIONS BETWEEN
BEIJING AND TAIPEI, GORDON.
WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS IN
TERMS OF TAIWAN AND WHAT XI
JINPING IS THINKING AFTER
WATCHING THIS WAR ON UKRAINE BY
RUSSIA?
>> WELL, A NUMBER OF THINGS HAVE
INHIBITED BUT ALSO EMBOLDENED
HIM, FOR INSTANCE, THE FAILURE
OF DETERRENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE
WHERE THE UNITED STATES WAS NOT
ABLE TO USE ITS OVERWHELMING
POWER AGAINST RUSSIA TO PREVENT
IT FROM INVADING UKRAINE IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
I THINK THE CHINESE HAVE SEEN
THE HERE OWEISM HEROISM OF THE U
PEOPLE AND THINK MAYBE THE
TAIWANESE WOULD DEFEND
THEMSELVES AS WELL.
I THINK THEY LOOK AT THE FAILURE
OF THE U.S. TO IMPOSE OF STRICT
SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA, THEY COULD
INVADE TAIWAN AND THE U.S. MAY
HUFF AND PUFF BUT THEY WON’T DO
ANYTHING TO THE CHINESE, BECAUSE
WE’RE SO MAGNIFICENT.
THAT’S THE THINKING RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE THINK TAIWAN IS MORE AT
RISK, NOT LESS AT RISK OF
INVASION.
MARIA: LOOK AT THE RESPONSE OF
THE U.S. IN RESPONSE TO CHINA,
THEY CANCELED THE CHINA
INITIATIVE WHICH I FOUND VERY
OFF-PUTTING.
WE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH JAMES
COMER, CONGRESSMAN COMER, SAID
THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS
COMPROMISED BECAUSE OF THE MONEY
HE AND HIS FAMILY HAS TAKEN IN
AND THAT’S WHY HE’S MAKING THE
DECISION HE’S MAKING ON CHINA
AND RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THATION CANCELING -- ON THE
ADMINISTRATION CANCELING THE
CHINA INITIATIVE.
WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF
THAT IN YOUR VIEW, GORDON.
>> THE IMPLICATIONS ARE THAT
CHINA IS REINFORCING ITS BELIEF
THAT IT CAN CONTROL OUTCOMES AT
THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE
AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM.
THAT’S WHAT THEY FELT GOING IN
AFTER BIDEN WAS ELECTED, BEFORE
BEING SWORN IN.
WE FAUX THAT FROM THE COMMENTS,
THE ACADEMIC THAT WERE LIVE
STREAMED ACROSS CHINA WHO WAS
VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT HOW CHINA
WOULD ACTUALLY DETERMINE AND
AFFECT AMERICAN POLITICAL
DECISIONSES.
YOU KNOW, BIDEN ON CHINA HAS NOT
BEEN SUFFICIENTLY ROBUST IN
DEFENDING US AND THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF THINGS HE’S BEEN DOING
WHICH ARE ACTUALLY ON BEIJING’S
AGENDA, TO TO-DO LIST.
RIGHT NOW I THINK BEIJING THINKS
THEY RUN THE UNITED STATES,
WE’RE SOMEWHAT A SEMICOLONY WITH
BIDEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
MARIA: THAT’S A GREAT ANALYSIS.
WHY WOULDN’T THEY THINK THAT,
GORDON?
THE UNITED STATES DIDN’T PUSH
INTO AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE
ORIGINS OF COVID-19.
WE LEFT IT AS IS.
CHINA SAID WE WON’T HAVE
INVESTIGATORS IN AND THAT’S
THAT.
THAT WAS IT, GORDON.
THIS IS THE DEVASTATING COVID-19
THAT WE’RE STILL FEELING WHERE
MILLIONS ARE DEAD ACROSS THE
WORLD AND WE CAN’T LOOK AT HOW
THIS ALL STARTED?
>> YES, THAT’S 6.1 MILLION
PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD OUTSIDE
OF CHINA WHO WERE KILLED BY THIS
DISEASE INCLUDING 983, 984,000
AMERICANS.
AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION’S
90 DAY INVESTIGATION OF COVID
WAS PUSHED ON IT.
IT DIDN’T WANT TO DO IT.
AND THEN AFTERWARDS IT
COMPLETELY DROPPED THE EFFORT SO
YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THEY
ARE NOT INTERESTED IN LEARNING
ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF SOMETHING
THAT HAS KILLED ALMOST A MILLION
AMERICANS.
ALMOST 1 MILLION AMERICANS.
MARIA: YEAH, I WONDER WHY. AND BY THE WAY, IT WAS THE CCP
AND BY THE WAY, IT WAS THE CCP
WHO DECIDED PETER DASZAK SHOULD
BE ONE OF THE INVESTIGATORS,
AFTER HE COVERED UP AS WELL WHAT
THE U.S. WAS FUNDING IN TERMS OF
WUHAN LAB ACTIVITIES.