Christians have come out in force in Hong Kong...
singing hymns...
“Sing Hallelujah to the Lord!”
and using their faith
to join millions of others, protesting an extradition bill.
That bill that could allow Hong Kong authorities
to send people to mainland China for trial.
Welcome to China Uncensored.
I'm Chris Chappell.
Joining me is Cardinal Joseph Zen.
He's going to talk a little bit about
the extradition protests in Hong Kong.
Thanks for joining me.
I know you and many other religious leaders
have come out very strongly against the extradition bill.
And many Christian groups have been very active in protesting it.
Why do you think Hong Kong's Christians
have been so motivated to join these extradition bill protests?
You see, in Hong Kong the Christian religions
had very strong point in education.
So, we Catholics, we have more than 300 schools.
That means we have 25% of the school population in our schools.
We don't have university because the government was very exclusive.
So, many people pass through our schools.
Many influential people in Hong Kong are Christians.
Even Carrie Lam is Catholic.
She is also, yeah.
Actually, she got baptized just shortly before
coming back from Britain.
So, they have influence in society.
For example, the barristers, many Catholics.
Also, in the government like Anson Chan.
He was number two in the government.
So, it should be natural that the Christians have a part.
But, the official church in Hong Kong have always been rather,
how to say, traditional.
That means reluctant to come out for any subject
which can be called political.
Still, some people have the prejudice that
we should not join the politics.
Now, that's ridiculous,
because we have ecumenical council in the '60s.
There, in the official document it says politics is part of life.
Politics means the things which belong to the society,
so everybody should join.
It very clearly says that.
Here, I'm really wonder why so many priests
have such a resistance to go into politics.
Anyway, people say, "Under the British,
you had such good relation with government.
Why now you always fight the government?"
We say, "It's not our choice.
They are fighting us,
and so we have to defend ourselves."
Then we have to defend the freedom of people.
They were very clever to promise one country two systems.
We take their words seriously,
but now they went back on their words.
Now the situation is terrible, terrible.
This time, it's more clear the participation of the church.
You feel in many ways it's the duty of Hong Kong's Christian
to come out and stand up.
Sure, sure.
We have to come out.
You see, we are responsible for the people,
so they must see that our teaching about human rights,
we believe in those values.
So, I don't think we can be neutral to all this.
Unfortunately, the organization of the six religions
is rather conservative.
Many times they try to say some things which are neutral, impartial.
"Oh, now there is a division in society.
We hope everybody can be restrained
and come to discuss and to revere harmony."
That's an empty invitation according to many
because this situation is a really much worse
than we can manage only with good will.
We have to fight.
This ties in very much to the situation Christians
are also facing in mainland China.
Now, in mainland China, there is no religious freedom
because there's no freedom.
People cannot talk as they like.
There's no freedom.
Okay, now you say,
"Oh, they have solved the problem of poverty.
Many people now."
Okay, that may be true,
but you cannot just feed the people.
You are not running a farm.
You are running a society of human beings.
They have their conscience,
but they are not allowed to say anything.
Hong Kong Christians are concerned that
could happen here in Hong Kong.
Yes, sure.
I think at this moment
we may say it is the only thing which remains for us
to be different from the cities of China.
With this legislation,
anybody can be brought to China
because they have only to present
some so-called prima facie evidence.
That means even faith evidence is enough.
They can force the government to hand those people,
because the evidence is to be judged at their court, not here.
Terrible.
Many say it is worse than the so-called Article 23.
The National Security Bill.
Because that is a law in Hong Kong.
The cases are to be judge in Hong Kong.
But now, according to this legislation,
the cases will be judged in China.
You cannot trust.
At this point,
do you think if the Hong Kong government
withdraws the extradition bill
that will be enough?
I think now the urgent problem is to solve
this issue about this extradition law.
But, I think given all what happened these days,
we need much radical thinking about the actual situation,
because it's really bad.
They have so much unjustice.
Now they are harvesting a disaster.
So, I really hope it's not only about this law,
which should be withdrawn.
Otherwise the people will not believe in what they say.
That's the minimum they can do.
Then the second thing they can do is have
an independent commission to inquire about
what really happened on the day 12th of June,
and to know clearly the responsibility
of the young people and of the police.
Then the whole thing happened because the whole system is wrong,
because we are feeling so much helplessness.
You see, this Umbrella movement
or this Occupy Central movement,
we put so much effort, peaceful effort,
to demand that they do what is being promised in the basic law.
To let us have a real democratic election,
but we are not given.
They are closing all the doors.
So, we have to go back to that.
Then, after that,
they did so many things we had just to bear.
They disqualify some democratically elected legislators.
They bring to the court people
who peacefully made some demands to the government.
We just accept all that peacefully.
But, at a certain moment,
there's so much anger in the people.
We have to thank those three promoters
of the Occupy Central movement
because they preached peace,
nonviolence all the time.
I think the whole world should admire
how we can have a march of one million
and more than one million people
with no incident at all.
You see?
Really, they have to face their responsibility.
They took advantage of our peaceful nature.
I think in this moment,
we are very much worried that the young people
may not be able to be so patient.
The government is provoking them to violence.
The police, we don't recognize those police
as Hong Kong police.
Terrible.
They look like the public security in China.
It's incredible.
You've been a religious leader-
I am a retired bishop.
You see, because what we are doing
is according to the teaching of the church.
Now, the bishops,
they have retirement from the office,
but not from the duty of preaching the doctrine of the church.
So, I have still the duty to preach the doctrine of the church.
I think what they are trying to do is against the human rights,
against teaching of the church.
And your religion is what motivates you to stand up.
Sure, sure.
Yeah.
Actually, the human rights belong to human beings.
It's not exclusive to believers.
Then, we have also a church
who happens to see clearly such doctrine,
especially the recent popes.
We have so many wonderful documents of the church,
encyclicals, teaching about human rights.
As somebody who has been a religious leader for so many years,
what advice would you give to people standing up to tyranny,
both Christian and nonChristian alike?
Actually it is a duty for people who are so privileged to know
very clearly this doctrine about human nature,
about the human rights, about how the society should be run,
what is the authority,
what are the duties of those in authority.
So, we must share our knowledge,
our conviction,
our values with the people who are less privileged.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
It's been a pleasure.