Tony DuShane, Writer/Podcaster/Teacher: Storytelling is my religion. It's so it's
nothing I will ever (if there are Gods of storytelling), I’m never going to
go against the Gods of storytelling so…
Film Courage: What mistakes do writers make when writing characters?
Tony DuShane: I don't know if they make mistakes writing characters well maybe they do?
It's just find ways to make them three-dimensional and there's always ways and I think that's when
in the end your we need to know what the character's goal is and then just
make it harder for them, that's about it. For the most part it's
I think I do find some people are…then this is one that comes “Oh no, this is based on a true story
and no this is a real person,” and it's just like Okay, but get back to the get back to the page.
Stop doing the verbatim on you know but I also think that's a technique that technique that's
a very great word for it's a way for people to avoid actually writing it's a way for them
to avoid actually sinking into the conflict of the possibilities of that character so they can
just say oh no this really happened and it's just like you just don't want to go there that's okay
don't be a writer it's not a it's it's not a hugely paying gig unless it is sometimes it's
it's mostly sad you know it's it only looks pretty in movies so why wouldn't where would
they not want to go I mean I find this I find this a lot and I find this in the majority of
you know maybe 70 percent of the students that take my classes they they don't want to they
it's like when we were talking about the the evilness and the darkness
I don't think they want to go into the darkness of their characters because they're too scared
to show the darkness of themselves and that's when we're gonna completely that's that's just
when the the the cat the sand castle of the story you're creating just won't work it's
you need to know the imperfections that's that's the it's the fun part you know
right so they make this character too perfect or or it's too flat
yeah too flat and just it doesn't yeah it's just it's reading like they're avoiding
and usually i'll ask them what they're avoiding and oh no no this really happened and there's
people there's a lot of students who just don't want notes and you just kind of find them and go
all right well you're not getting notes then it's just like oh you know what
my standard is oh well thanks for sending this in and you know just sprinkle more conflict
if a student's getting that note from me that means that I realize they're not taking any
notes and they just want a participation grade so so if I let's suppose I turn something in and and
you you give me a first pass of first round of notes and then you see that I don't integrate
or I don't change anything does that mean i'm not receptive no it's it usually you know I don't mind
I don't mind if a student's confused I don't mind if a student is is even offended and
like whoa wait a second but the the cut then the conversation let's have the conversation
and and it doesn't mean that they need to become take every note and become great you know in the
next scenes but but you could start to tell you know after a few workshops where you're just like
it's just it just happens or the the practice is happening it's just like oh you're hitting it
you're hitting it you're hitting that conflict you're you're hitting this i'm seeing what
you're doing here and here and here you can just you could tell when someone's avoiding
truth almost and when someone just and that and that's what that's the
one thing that I really kind of preach to every writing class that I teach is
write your truth I can give you an outline with 90 I can give you 90 story beats
with the character with the all the plot and everything I can give it to every one of you
and tell you to go write it and you're all going to come back with completely different
screenplays because you're gonna come with exactly who you are how you grew up
your tragedies your victories you know you you have the fingerprint and that's the beauty of
being a writer it's like people get so stuck on ideas oh that's a good idea it's like it doesn't
the idea doesn't matter it's your fingerprint on how the story how you're telling the story
because every story's been told you know they may pretend like oh we got this new thing that we did
it like this and it's just like all right but in the end it's still a heist movie or in the end
it's still a love story that you know you found a little different angle on but they're the core of
it the core that we care about is still in there so that then that will that'll never go away and
that's when I even say hey if you're lucky enough to get on an adam sandler movie and you know adam
sandler writes goofy movies but if you're lucky enough to get a project on that put your truth
in there big go ahead and be goofy but put an element of your truth in there and that will
make you stand above and they'll be like then when they read it they'll be like you know what I don't
know why I like this but I like it and that's when we're putting our own truth into the work and we
don't have to totally spell it out but that's when people go I connect to this and I don't
know exactly why or how but usually that means the writer the writer has brought in just utter truth
and honesty and storytelling do you find people are sometimes scared because you're so honest
it intimidates them because then that means they have to meet you at that level
probably I should probably be less intimidating well not intentionally but but I mean this is who
you are and you want to yeah and I don't expect I mean I don't expect everyone to have to you know
deal with the my demons the way I deal with them yeah there's it's you know I can tell when there's
avoidance in a sci-fi you know it's the alien isn't looking at themselves like
yeah yeah the alien looks at himself in the mirror and says i'm gorgeous and green yeah
there's there's just there's it's just interesting because I think and I didn't even realize this but
i've read so much work that I can really tell fast if if they if they're into it and if they
it and if they had a stake in writing it there's this with
and I don't know exactly what it is and I don't know how to explain it but I could
read five pages of something and realize if if they're invested and this is important
or if this is an exercise and they're trying to and they're just trying to sell something
which could just be selling the teacher for a good grade or yeah yeah yeah okay or even scripts
that are given to me going hey can you you know can you do a read through on this and give and
give me some pages of coverage and i'm like yeah and i'll be like sometimes i've given back scripts
after 10 pages and i'll be like you didn't do the work yet so it's just you know and then they're
I there's something I have with with writing is I kind of can't I have a problem
sugarcoating it sometimes but but but storytelling is my religion it's so it's nothing I will ever
if there are gods of storytelling i'm never going to go against the gods of
storytelling so I hate it when someone asks me oh did you like my book and i'm just like
you know I would never ask that of anybody I don't even expect anyone to read anything I you know but
if someone says that I kind of have to either tell them the truth or avoid it in some way
and sometimes I might might say you know it was great to see you on that publisher
or I really liked that you got to work with that editor and all they hear is
great and like they don't hear that I didn't say anything about the book but I have to kind of
I can't say a book's greater a screenplay is great if I feel on my bones it's not and I might be a
jerk because of that I don't know well also too sometimes if you're going on a junket or press
junket you don't always have time to do I mean you sometimes get this stuff last minute so you
don't always have time to read something or even get a screener but but you know I mean sometimes
it's not just the work it's also the person that did the work and that's fascinating too
oh exactly oh I totally agree I agree beyond belief there's I mean that that the person
behind the work intrigues me I think i'm talking about my friends when my friends come up to me
and we'll ask that and that throws me off but like when I interview like every once every like 15
to 20 people will ask and that's I kind of have to I have to rest I have to re-steer it because
I because when I do interviews i'm there to have the conversation with the person i'm not there to
if we discuss storytelling great if you know but I'd rather I'd rather not go into the details of
the character of the book because that's for other you know that's for the other shows I guess yeah
or the question I love how was it to work with so and so there was such a big name you know that's
like one of the I hear these journalists will ask that in junkets and different things and sometimes
it's like well you're in a sense insulting the person but hey that's just my my thing is I always
ask were they not were they were they nice to work with okay and it's really fun to hear because
and then you know I f I was yeah I was on a set and right before covid and someone was telling
me about one of my favorite stars and I was like how was he to work with and they were like
he was nice above the line but below the line he was not a good person to people and I was like
that's that's you know I don't want to hear that yeah and plus you don't know
what the person's going through but I get it I guess if you hear enough stories but sometimes
you don't you know there's a few people that i've heard were difficult and then i've seen
someone come up and insist on a photo and different things in a really rude way held it
really well and I was like wow they they actually you know so you sometimes you just never know
you need to know the audience that's telling you that if it's someone that's been working
in film for 20 years and they're working on film after film after tv show after tv show i'll take
i'll take notice when they you know but everyone knows everyone has a bad day
sure sure I assume everyone has a bad day so I never yeah if someone was like oh I met someone
on the street and he was a jerk I just kind of look at him and go I yeah I don't care.
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