♪♪♪ >> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,
EVERYBODY.
MY NEXT GUEST IS AN AUTHOR, JOURNALIST, AND OPINION
COLUMNIST AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
PLEASE WELCOME CHARLES BLOW!
CHARLES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.
>> Stephen: NOW, AN OPINION COLUMNIST SOUNDS -- HEY, IT'S A
GREAT OUTLET BUT IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE A CHALLENGE.
THERE MUST BE TIMES WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION, WHERE
YOU'RE, LIKE, AH, I GOT NOTHING.
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
>> I COULD WRITE THAT.
I COULD ACTUALLY SAY, I HAVE NOTHING, AND MAKE A COLUMN OUT
OF IT.
I THINK I'VE DONE THAT ONCE OR TWICE.
>> Stephen: WELL, YOU HAVE A LOT RIGHT NOW.
YOU HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF OPINIONS RIGHT NOW, AND A LOT OF THEM ARE
IN THE NEW BOOK, "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW."
I'LL PUT IT RIGHT THERE SO WE GET THE BIG SHOT OF IT RIGHT
OVER THERE.
AND IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC CALL TO ACTION.
EXPLAIN TO THE PEOPLE WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE.
>> I'M SUGGESTING THAT PEOPLE REVERSE THE GREAT MIGRATION.
THE GREAT MIGRATION WAS THE OUTFLOW OF BLACK PEOPLE FROM THE
RURAL SOUTH TO THE BIG CITIES OF THE NORTH AND WEST.
NEARLY HALF OF ALL BLACK PEOPLE LEFT THE SOUTH DURING THE GREAT
MIGRATION.
>> Stephen: THEY LEFT FOR OPPORTUNITY AND TO ESCAPE JIM
CROW OF THE SOUTH.
>> A PUSH AND PULL.
P PULL ALWAYS MORE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.
A LOT OF YOUNG WHITE MEN HAD GONE TO FIGHT IN WORLD WAR I AND
WORLD WAR II IN THE SECOND WAVE, AND FOR THE ABILITY TO BE PART
OF THEIR CIVIC ENVIRONMENT.
THE PUSH WAS THAT, IN THE BEGINNING, THE COTTON CROP
FAILED BECAUSE OF THE BOWL WEEVIL INFESTATION, BUT, MORE
IMPORTANTLY, THERE WAS WHITE TERROR.
THEY WERE BEING TERRORIZED OUT OF THE PLACE THEY HAD BEEN.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSED FLIP OF THE PUSH AND
THE PULL?
IS IT A NEW SOUTH IN OBVIOUSLY, MUCH HAS CHANGED IN THE SOUTH
SINCE THE START OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA.
GEORGIA JUST HAD ITS FIRST BLACK SENATOR, BASICALLY THE REPUBLIC
WAS JUST SAVED BY BLACK VOTERS, ESPECIALLY JIM CLYBURN IN
SOUTH CAROLINA JOE BIDEN IS THE GUY.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEW SOUTH WOULD BE MOST BENEFICIAL
TO BL BLACK AMERICANS?
>> IT'S ABOUT THE SAME.
HALF OF THE LIST IS IN THE SOUTH, WHERE BLACK AMERICA IS
THRIVING.
THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTE LOOKS AT WHERE MIDDLE INCOME IS
INCREASING, MUCH IS IN THE SOUTH.
YOU LOOK WHERE BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES ARE THRIVING, THE
NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY IS IN THE SOUTHEAST.
THAT'S PART OF THE PULL.
THE PUSH, JUST LIKE THE CRASH TO HAVE THE COTTON INDUSTRY, THE
PANDEMIC MAY WELL BE PART OF THE PUSH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE
SECOND QUARTER OF LAST YEAR WHEN WE BASICALLY SHUT DOWN THE
ECONOMY OF AMERICA, THE PLACES HIT HARDEST, MANY OF THEM WERE
THOSE PLACES IN THE NORTH AND WEST WHERE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE
MIGRATED TO.
THE BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN CHICAGO IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF
LAST YEAR WAS THREE TIMES THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF BLACK
PEOPLE IN ATLANTA.
>> Stephen: YOU LIVE IN ATLANTA NOW.
>> YES, I DO.
>> Stephen: IT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE SOUTH IS CHANGING, HOW
THERE'S DYNAMIC NEW ECONOMIES IN THE SOUTH.
WHERE ELSE IN THE SOUTH IS IT CHANGING?
WHERE ARE THE BEING DRAWS RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL ONE THING IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THE FIRST TIME
ATLANTA GOT A BLACK MAYOR WAS 1973, AND THAT WAS THE FIRST
CITY IN ALL OF THE SOUTH TO HAVE A BLACK MAYOR, AND THEY DID IT
BECAUSE, IN 1970 WAS THE FIRST YEAR ATLANTA BECAME A MAJORITY
BLACK CITY.
NOW THERE ARE 1200 MAJORITY BLACK CITIES IN AMERICA, 90% OF
THEM ARE IN THE SOUTH.
ALMOST EVERY MAJOR CITY IN THE SOUTH NOW HAS A BLACK MAYOR, AND
THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, DYNAMIC PEOPLE.
THE WHOLE CULTURE OF POLITICS IN THE SOUTH IS CHANGING.
THE NEXT STEP IS TO TAKE THAT FROM A MUNICIPAL LEVEL TO A
STATE LEVEL, AND THAT IS WHAT GEORGIA PROMISES US BECAUSE THIS
IS A STATEWIDE ELECTION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL AND THE
SENATE LEVEL AND, IN BOTH THOSE CASES, BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE
MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT WOULD FLIP THE STATE FOR JOE
BIDEN, AND BLACK PEOPLE WERE THE MAJORITY OF THE COALITION THAT
SENT THOSE TWO SENATORS TO CONGRESS, AND IT WAS THE FIRST
TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN A
MAJORITY OF A COALITION TO SEND SENATORS TO CONGRESS.
>> Stephen: WHAT DOES THE RESEARCH SUGGEST THE POLITICS IN
AMERICA TO BE LIKE IN THE GREAT MIGRATION HADN'T HAPPENED, IF WE
STILL -- IF ALL THOSE BLACK PEOPLE HAD STAYED THERE
THROUGHOUT THE 20th CENTURY?
>> SO IF THEY HAD STAYED, AND IF YOU HAD STILL GOTTEN THE CIVIL
RIGHTS ACT AND THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THEY COULD CONTROL UP TO 14
AMERICAN SENATORS.
THEY COULD CONTROL MORE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES THAN
CALIFORNIA AND NEW YORK STATE COMBINED.
YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD -- IF THEY VOTE ALL OF THAT THE SAME
WAY THEY VOTE TODAY, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A REPUBLICAN
PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 50 YEARS.
THE ENTIRE SUPREME COURT WOULD LOOK DIFFERENT.
HILLARY CLINTON WOULD HAVE WON IN 2016, EVEN IF SHE HAD LOST
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE MIDWESTERN STATES.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK, BUT WHEN WE RETURN
I WILL ASK CHARLES WHAT IT WAS THE LIKE TO TAKE HIS OWN ADVICE
AND MOVE BACK SOUTH.