>>> WELCOME BACK.
FEDERAL HEALTH OFFICIALS ON
FRIDAY ENDED THEIR PAUSE ON THE
JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE WHILE
5th
ADDING A WARNING LABEL ABOUT A
RARE BUT TROUBLING BLOOD
CLOTTING DISORDER.
THIS IS GOOD NEWS IN THE EFFORT
TO VACCINATE AS MANY AMERICANS
AS POSSIBLE, THERE ARE STILL
CONCERNS THAT VACCINE HESITANCY
COULD GROW AS A RESULT OF THE
J&J HURDLE.
JOINING ME NOW, DIRECTOR OF THE
NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH,
DR. FRANCIS COLLINS.
WELCOME BACK TO "MEET THE
PRESS," SIR.
>> NICE TO BE WITH YOU, CHUCK.
>> LET ME START WITH THE NEWS
ABOUT THE J&J VACCINE.
YOU AND I TALKED BEFORE THIS
DECISION.
IT IS OUT.
THE WARNING LABEL SEEMS TO BE
MORE GENERAL THAN SPECIFIC.
AND SOME DOCTORS HAVE WONDERED
WHY IT WASN’T MORE SPECIFIC.
HERE IS DR. LEANA WEN IN "THE
POST."
SHE SAID THE WARNING SHOULD BE
TARGETED TO WOMEN UNDER 50,
PERIOD.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO HER?
>> WELL, I THINK SHE IS IN THE
MINORITY COMPARED TO THE
DECISION THAT WAS PUT FORWARD BY
THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON
IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF CDC
WHICH MET FOR AN ENTIRE DAY ON
FRIDAY AND WENT OVER ALL OF THE
DATA, DOCUMENTING A TOTAL OF
SOME 13 CASES OF THIS RARE FORM
OF BLOOD CLOTTING OUT OF SOME 8
MILLION DOSES OF THE J&J VACCINE
THAT HAD BEEN ADMINISTERED.
AND THE STRONG CONCLUSION OF
THAT GROUP WAS THAT THE VACCINE
SHOULD GO FORWARD, IT SHOULD BE
MADE AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY, BUT
THERE SHOULD BE A FACT SHEET
THAT PROVIDES THE INFORMATION TO
EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
NATURE IS OF THIS POTENTIAL VERY
RARE SIDE EFFECT SO THAT
EVERYONE IS AWARE OF THE FACTS.
I THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT
DECISION.
I THINK PEOPLE WILL WANT TO READ
THE FACT SHEET.
BUT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE NATURE
OF THIS RISK, THIS IS TRULY A
RARE EVENT.
WHEN YOU MEASURE THAT AGAINST
THE BENEFITS OF PREVENTING
SOMEBODY FROM DYING OF COVID,
THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
WE CLEARLY HAVE A SITUATION
WHERE THE BENEFITS GREATLY
OUTWEIGH THE RISKS, EVEN FOR
YOUNGER WOMEN.
>> ALL THESE STATISTICS I’VE
READ SEEMS TO REINFORCE THAT
POINT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT HOW
RARE IT IS FOR THIS TO HAPPEN.
CAN YOU GIVE VIEWERS A LAYMAN’S
COMPARISON HERE?
WHAT IS A COMMON DRUG THAT IS
OUT THERE THAT PEOPLE TAKE WHERE
IT WOULD BE -- YOU WOULD ALMOST
BE AT HIGHER RISK OF THIS THAN
YOU WOULD WITH THIS J&J VACCINE?
>> WELL, THINK ABOUT ASPIRIN.
ALL OF US HAVE BEEN TAKING
ASPIRIN FOR HEADACHES AND MUSCLE
ACHES FOR THE LAST MANY DECADES.
THE RISK OF ASPIRIN INDUCING A
SIGNIFICANT INTESTINAL BLEED IS
MUCH HIGHER THAN WHAT WE’RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE, SOMETHING IN
THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF ONE IN 500,
ONE IN A THOUSAND, FOR PEOPLE
WHO REGULARLY TAKE ASPIRIN.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING
ABOUT A THOUSAND TIMES LESS
LIKELY TO HAPPEN.
BUT WE AMERICANS ARE NOT THAT
GOOD AT THIS KIND OF RISK
CALCULATION.
SOMETHING SOUNDS SCARY, SOMEBODY
HAS POINTED OUT, YOU ARE LESS
LIKELY AS A WOMAN TAKING J&J TO
HAVE THIS BLOOD CLOTTING PROBLEM
THAN TO GET STRUCK BY LIGHTNING
NEXT YEAR.
SO IT’S A REAL LOW RISK.
AND WE DO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO
THAT.
WE WEAR OUR SEATBELTS, RIGHT?
WHAT YOU’RE DOING THERE, YOU’RE
TRYING TO PREVENT A BAD OUTCOME
IN A CAR CRASH.
BACK WHEN SEATBELTS WERE FIRST
BEING INTRODUCED PEOPLE WERE
LIKE, SUPPOSE MY CAR GETS INTO A
LAKE AND I CAN’T GET MY BUCKLE
UNDONE QUICKLY ENOUGH.
OKAY, I GUESS THAT’S IN THERE
TOO, BUT BALANCING THE BENEFITS
AND THE RISKS, WHICH IS WHAT
WE’RE TRYING TO DO HERE, YOU
COME OUT PRETTY CLEARLY ON THE
SIDE OF, ROLL UP YOUR SLEEVE.
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF
VACCINE HESITANCY.
YOU AND I, AGAIN, WERE TALKING
ABOUT THIS EARLIER.
YOU’RE DOING YOUR BEST TO REACH
OUT TO COMMUNITIES OF FAITH IN
PARTICULAR.
BUT AS YOU NOTED TO ME AND AT
OUR POLL WILL SHOW YOU, I’M
GOING TO PUT THE NUMBERS UP
HERE, WE HAVE A POLITICAL
DIVIDE.
AMONG DEMOCRATS, 75% OF ALL
DEMOCRATS CALL THEMSELVES
ALREADY VACCINATED AND ONLY 4%
OF DEMOCRATS SAY THEY WILL NOT
GET VACCINATED.
NUMBERS AMONG REPUBLICANS, 40%
ALREADY VACCINATED, ONE QUARTER
OF REPUBLICANS SAYING THEY WILL
NOT GET VACCINATED.
LOOK, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
EFFORTS YOU GUYS ARE THINKING
ABOUT THAT MIGHT SORT OF
DEPOLITICIZE THIS?
>> WELL, IT IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT ISSUE, BECAUSE WE’RE
ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, AND
CLEARLY IF WE’RE GOING TO BE
ABLE TO PUT COVID-19 BEHIND US,
WE NEED TO HAVE ALL AMERICANS
TAKE PART IN GETTING US TO THAT
POINT.
I THINK MAYBE ONE OF THE THINGS
WE CAN DO IS MAJORCHANGE THE
CONVERSATION A LITTLE BIT.
MAYBE THERE’S BEEN TOO MUCH
FINGER WAGGING.
I’VE BEEN DOING SOME OF THAT,
I’LL STOP, AND TRY TO LISTEN AND
SEE WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE.
MY WIFE AND I WERE ABLE TO
INVITE ANOTHER COUPLE TO COME TO
OUR HOUSE TO DINNER AND TAKE OFF
OUR MASKS BECAUSE THEY WERE
IMMUNIZED AS WELL AND HAVE A
NORMAL CONVERSATION AND HUG EACH
OTHER AT THE END OF THE EVENING.
THAT WAS SO LIBERATING.
IF YOU’RE NOT VACCINATED, YOU’RE
MISSING OUT ON THAT CHANCE TO
LIFT THAT BLANKET OF FEAR THAT’S
BEEN THERE.
EVEN IF YOU DON’T THINK COVID-19
ISN’T THAT BIG A DEAL, TELL ME
WHETHER YOU HAVEN’T WORRIED AT
SOME POINT ABOUT WHETHER IT WILL
HIT YOU OR YOUR FAMILY.
THAT’S AN INCREDIBLE GIFT.
YOU HAVE TO UNWRAP THE GIFT.
>> I KNOW ALL OF YOU PUBLIC
HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE RESISTING
ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS WHEN WE
SAY, WHEN DO WE GET TO HERD
IMMUNITY, RIGHT?
I UNDERSTAND IT’S A MOVING
TARGET, IT’S A BIT SUBSTANTIVE
DUE TO VARIANTS AND THINGS LIKE
THIS.
HOW MUCH RISK DO WE HAVE THE NOT
HITTING HERD IMMUNITY IF WE
CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE VACCINE
HESITANCY RATES?
>> WELL, WE HAVE A SERIOUS RISK.
AND A REASON NOBODY WILL GIVE
YOU AN ANSWER, CHUCK, IS BECAUSE
WE DON’T REALLY QUITE KNOW WITH
THIS PARTICULAR VIRUS, WITH THE
VARIANTS THAT ARE HAPPENING,
EXACTLY WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.
BUT IT’S UP THERE AROUND 70,
85%.
AND WE’RE NOT THERE YET.
YOU CAN SEE SOME PLACES IN THE
COUNTRY THAT ARE GETTING CLOSE
TO THAT, WITH A COMBINATION OF
HAVING HAD A LOT OF CASES OF
COVID, WHICH ALSO PROVIDES YOU
WITH SOME IMMUNITY, PLUS THE
VACCINES.
BUT THERE ARE OTHER PLACES THAT
ARE WAY BEHIND.
AND THOSE ARE THE PLACES WE ALL
WORRY ABOUT, AS THE NEXT
HOTSPOT.
YOU CAN SEE MICHIGAN HAS GONE
THROUGH A TERRIBLE TIME IN THE
LAST MONTH.
THEY’RE NOW GETTING PAST THAT,
WHICH IS REALLY ENCOURAGING.
WHAT’S THE NEXT ONE?
YOU CAN LOOK AT THE MAP AND SAY
WHERE ARE VACCINES LAGGING,
THOSE ARE THE PLACES TO WORRY
ABOUT.
AND WE COULD CHANGE THAT IF WE
CAN REALLY INSPIRE EVERYBODY TO
GET ENGAGED.
WE’RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO
MAKE IT EASY TO GET VACCINATION.
90% OF THE COUNTRY NOW LIVES
WITHIN FIVE MILES OF A SITE
WHERE YOU CAN GET VACCINATION
DONE.
IT’S OUT THERE IN THE
PHARMACIES.
DOCTORS ARE GETTING MORE
ENGAGED.
IT’S NOT THAT DIFFICULT, AS IT
WAS AT THE BEGINNING, TO GET
YOURSELF AN APPOINTMENT AND TO
GET INTO THIS IMMUNIZED GROUP
WHICH IS WHERE I THINK MOST
PEOPLE WILL WANT TO BE.
>> WE SAW SOME ANNOUNCEMENTS
THIS WEEK OF A COUPLE OF
UNIVERSITY SYSTEMS THAT ARE
GOING TO MANDATE THE VACCINE IN
ORDER TO COME ON CAMPUS, IN
ORDER TO TEACH, THINGS LIKE
THIS.
WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHER ENTITIES
THAT WOULD LIKE THE VACCINE
MANDATES.
BUT YOU CAN’T HAVE A MANDATE
UNDER EMERGENCY USE
AUTHORIZATION FOR THESE
VACCINES.
WHAT IS THE TIMETABLE, AT LEAST
PARTICULARLY WITH MODERNA AND PFIZER, HERE GENERALLY, WHEN WE
PFIZER, HERE GENERALLY, WHEN WE
SHOULD EXPECT THISSING TO FROM I
FROM EMERGENCY USE TO FORMAL
APPROVAL?
>> THAT IS NOT A TIMETABLE
THAT’S BEEN PRECISELY DEFINED
JUST YET.
AGAIN, TO GET THE PERMANENT
APPROVAL, YOU NEED A CERTAIN
NUMBER OF MONTHS OF FOLLOWUP TO
LOOK AT ANY POSSIBLE LATE SAFETY
SIGNALS.
THEREOF
THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY FOR
PHASE AND HER MODERNA.
BUT FDA IS NOT THERE ADEQUATE.
THAT’S A QUESTION FOR FDA, WHEN
WILL THEY SAY IT’S ENOUGH.
THERE’S NITTY-GRITTY TECHNICAL
STUFF ABOUT MANUFACTURING, THAT
INFORMATION HAS TO BE PROVIDED.
WE’RE NOT THERE.
WE’LL GET THERE IN THE NEXT FEW
MONTHS.
MEANTIME, I THINK IF PRIVATE
ORGANIZATIONS DECIDE THEY WANT
TO PUT FORWARD A MANDATE, I’M
NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THEIR
APPROACH.
AFTER ALL, VACCINES ARE GOOD FOR
YOU.
I’M CERTAINLY ENCOURAGING
EVERYBODY WHO WORKS FOR ME AT
THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF
HEALTH TO GET VACCINATED.
BUT I’M NOT MANDATING IT.
THINK ABOUT IT, THOUGH, IN THE
FUTURE, THOUGH, PARTICULARLY FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN HEALTH CARE
AND HAVE INTERACTIONS WITH
VULNERABLE PATIENTS.
WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GO IN THE
DIRECTION OF SAYING, YOU SHOULD
GET YOUR FLU SHOT.
I SUSPECT THE SAME WILL NEED TO
BE THE CASE FOR COVID ONCE WE’RE
AT THE POINT WHERE WE NO LONGER
HAVE THIS BLOCK ABOUT IT BEING
EMERGENCY USE.
SO PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN
HEALTH CARE, I EXPECT THAT’S
WHERE WE’RE GOING.
>> DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, ALWAYS
APPRECIATE HAVING YOU ON AND
YOUR EXPERTISE.
THE DIRECTOR OF THE NIH.
FOR THOSE WONDERING TECHNICALLY,
DR. FAUCI’S BOSS.