>>> THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION
INTO THE INSURRECTION, THE
LARGEST FEDERAL PROBE EVER.
AND IT JUST GOT LARGER, AS WE
HAVE BEEN REPORTING.
IT'S MOVING BEYOND THOSE WHO
STORMED THE CAPITOL, WHO ARE THE
MOST OBVIOUS DEFENDANTS, AND
REACHING INTO THE PLANNING AND
FUNDING.
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
INVESTIGATING TRUMP FANS WHO
ORGANIZED THE PIVOTAL RALLY.
NOW, IF THAT AVENUE OF
INVESTIGATION DOES SOUND
FAMILIAR, IT'S BECAUSE WHILE
IT'S NEW FOR THE FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS, THE HOUSE JANUARY
6th COMMITTEE HAS ALREADY BEGUN
GATHERING INFORMATION FROM RALLY
ORGANIZERS.
IN FACT, IT WAS BIG NEWS WHEN
HOUSE INVESTIGATORS BEGAN
SCRUTINIZING 11 PEOPLE INVOLVED
IN THE RALLY AND THEIR LINKS TO
THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> WE HAVE A SECOND ROUND OF
SUBPOENAS FROM THE HOUSE
COMMITTEE.
>> THEY WERE ISSUED TO 11 PEOPLE
TIED TO THE EVENTS AND RALLIES
THAT TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE
INSURRECTION.
>> THE SUBPOENAS SEEK PLANNING
AND FUNDING RECORDS INCLUDING
ANY COORDINATION WITH THE TRUMP
WHITE HOUSE.
>> COORDINATION AND PLANNING IS
KEY.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A
RALLY THAT GOT OUT OF HAND AND
ANY EFFORTS BY THE INCUMBENT
GOVERNMENT TO GATHER SUPPORT FOR
VIOLENCE AT THE CAPITOL.
OR AN ORGANIZED COUP.
CONGRESS WANTS TO GET THE FACTS
FROM THOSE PLANNERS ON THE
GROUND.
INCLUDING SOMEONE WHO WAS ON THE
CAMPAIGN'S PAY ROLL.
AND THEN PLANNED THE RALLY.
A NAME THAT COMES UP A LOT IN
REPORTING ABOUT THAT DAY.
TRUMP FUND-RAISER CAROLINE WREN.
>> TODAY'S CHARACTERS, PHIL
WALDRON, ALEX JONES.
CAROLINE WREN.
>> A NAME THAT'S PROBABLY
FAMILIAR TO YOUR VIEWERS.
>> CAROLINE WREN, A GOP
FUND-RAISER WHO ACCORDING TO
ProPUBLICA HELPED ORGANIZE THE
RALLY.
>> SHE HAS BEEN A TOP REPUBLICAN
FUND-RAISER FOR SOME TIME.
>> CAROLINE WREN IS A REPUBLICAN
PARTY VETERAN, A TRUMP LOYALIST
WHO WORKED AT HIGH LEVELS TO
HELP THAT JANUARY 6th RALLY
HAPPEN.
IN FACT, THE GOVERNMENT REQUIRED
A PERMIT FOR THAT DAY, LISTED
HER AS A, QUOTE, VIP ADVISER FOR
THE RALLY.
ONE REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST TOLD
BUSINESS INSIDER WREN EMERGED
WITH MORE IMPORTANCE AFTER
TRUMP'S ELECTION LOSS AND WAS,
QUOTE, IN THE MIDDLE OF
EVERYTHING IN TRUMPLAND IN THAT
FATEFUL PERIOD.
NOW, WHEN THE JANUARY 6th
COMMITTEE CALLED, SHE ANSWERED.
COOPERATING WITH ITS QUESTIONS
ABOUT PEOPLE WHO COLLECTIVELY
COMMUNICATED WITH TRUMP ABOUT
THAT DAY AND THE COMMITTEE KNOWS
SHE'S WORKED FOR TRUMP ADVISER
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE IN THE
CAMPAIGN.
A MONEY CONTACT BETWEEN THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RNC.
INDEED, THERE'S VERY
CONTROVERSIAL AND FAMOUS RIGHT
WING FIGURES WHO VOLUNTEER HER
AS THEIR KEY CONTACT OR PLUG
GOING INTO THE SIXTH.
INCLUDING ALEX JONES.
>> I KNEW THAT CAROLINE WREN WAS
A BIG FUND-RAISER HEADED UP ONE
OF TRUMP'S PACS SO YES, THAT WAS
MY CONTACT FOR THE 5th AND 6th.
WAS CAROLINE WREN.
>> WHEN IT COMES TO DOING THIS
WORK, THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE
KNOWS WHAT INVESTIGATORS ALWAYS
KNOW.
YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE SOURCES TO
GET ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND
EVIDENCE.
I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW
TONIGHT, CAROLINE WREN JOINS ME
FOR HER FIRST MSNBC INTERVIEW
ABOUT ALL OF THIS.
SHE IS RARELY IF EVER DISCUSSED
THESE ISSUES OR THE PROBE ON THE
NEWS.
CAROLINE WREN IS MY GUEST.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> I APPRECIATE IT.
SO MUCH INTEREST IN ALL OF THIS.
LET'S START WITH THAT RALLY.
WHAT WAS IN YOUR MIND THE GOAL
FOR THE JANUARY 6th RALLY, AND
WHEN DO YOU THINK IT WENT OFF
TRACK?
>> SURE.
I THINK THE RALLY AFFORDED FOR
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
AMERICANS TO GATHER IN THEIR
NATION'S CAPITAL TO EXERCISE
THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO
PROTEST.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE HAD BEEN
HUNDREDS OF RALLIES ALL ACROSS
THE COUNTRY WITH PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
THAT WAS ONE OF HIS SORPT OF
FAMOUS HALLMARKS AND EVENTS AND
I HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN A LOT OF
THEM OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
MY ROLE THAT DAY WAS SIMILAR TO
MY ROLE AT OTHER EVENTS WHERE IT
HAD BEEN TO ASSIST MANY OTHERS
IN ORGANIZING AND EXECUTING A
PROFESSIONAL AND LAWFULLY
OBTAINED PERMITTED EVENT AT THE
WHITE HOUSE ELLIPSE.
>> WHAT ABOUT IT GOING OFF
TRACK?
WHEN DID YOU HEAR THERE WOULD BE
VIOLENCE OR WHEN DID YOU REALIZE
THINGS WERE CHANGING ON THE 6th?
>> NOT UNTIL AFTERWARDS WHEN I
SAW ON TELEVISION WHAT WAS
HAPPENING WHEN I WAS BACK AT MY
HOTEL.
SO I WATCHED IT SORT OF UNFOLD
WITH EVERYONE ELSE ON
TELEVISION.
I WAS NOT THERE AT THE CAPITOL
THAT DAY.
>> AS MENTIONED, THE COMMITTEE
SUBPOENAED YOU AND YOU
COOPERATED.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO COOPERATE?
>> YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A
CHOICE NOT TO.
IT WAS EITHER TO COOPERATE WITH
THEM OR TO BE HELD IN CONTEMPT
OF CONGRESS AND FACE $100,000
FINE AND POTENTIALLY A YEAR IN
JAIL, WHICH YOU HAVE SEEN HAPPEN
TO A FEW INDIVIDUALS.
AND I DO -- I DO THINK IT IS
PRETTY ALARMING.
I THINK THE MOST DANGEROUS, YOU
KNOW, SUBPOENAS THAT HAVE BEEN
SENT REALLY HAVE BEEN TO THE
EVENT ORGANIZERS.
THE 11 YOU MENTIONED EARLIER IN
THE SHOW ARE INDIVIDUALED WHO
ARE PRIVATE CITIZENS.
WE HAVE NOT BEEN ACCUSED OF ANY
WRONGDOING.
WE'RE NOT INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE
AT THE CAPITOL, BUT WE WERE
INVOLVED IN EXECUTING A LAWFULLY
PERMITTED EVENT AT THE WHITE
HOUSE ELLIPSE, WHICH WAS 1.5
MILES FROM THE CAPITOL, AND IT
WAS ALLOWING FOR PEOPLE TO COME
TO THEIR NATION'S CAPITAL AND TO
PROTEST WHAT THEY BELIEVED TO BE
A FRAUDULENT ELECTION, AND THEY
HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT.
IT'S A PRIMARY PILLAR OF
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY TO PROTEST
YOUR GOVERNMENT.
AND FOR PRIVATE CITIZENS, YOU
KNOW, FOR CONGRESS TO BE ABLE TO
JUST COME IN AND SEIZE A YEAR'S
WORTH OF YOUR TEXT MESSAGES,
YOUR EMAILS, YOUR CALL LOGS,
YOUR GEOLOGICAL INFORMATION
ABSENT ANY WARRANT OR DUE
PROCESS I THINK IS VERY
CONCERNING.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE A
CONCERNING FACTOR FOR ANY
AMERICAN CITIZEN REGARDLESS OF
YOUR POLITICAL AFFILIATION.
>> I TAKE YOUR POINT THAT YOU'RA
CITIZEN WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM
PEOPLE WHO SIGN UP FOR
GOVERNMENT SERVICE, ET CETERA.
SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, AS
YOU WELL KNOW BECAUSE YOU HAVE
WORKED AROUND THEM OR NEAR THEM,
BANNON, NAVARRO, THEY WENT A
DIFFERENT WAY THAN YOU.
DO YOU THINK THAT WAS A MISTAKE?
DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER
IF THEY JUST COOPERATED LIKE YOU
DID?
>> OH, I THINK THERE'S BEEN -- I
MEAN, OVER 100 PEOPLE HAVE NOW
BEEN SUBPOENAED.
EVERYONE HAS TO CHART THEIR OWN
COURSE AND HOW THEY WANT TO
ADDRESS IT.
SO I THINK IT'S BEEN -- IT'S
DIFFICULT FOR ANYONE HAVING TO
FACE THE SORT OF ACCUSATIONS BY
CONGRESS THAT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE
HOW IS IT YOU WANT TO HANDLE IT.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, COMMENTS
ON THEIR PARTICULAR SITUATIONS.
>> OKAY.
IN YOUR INTERVIEW, WHICH WE'RE
VERY INTERESTED WITH, WITH THE
COMMITTEE, I'M CURIOUS BRIEFLY
YES ORNO, DID THEY ASK YOU
ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE RALLY,
LEADERS CONTACT WITH ANY
MILITIAS?
>> THAT DIDN'T REALLY COME UP,
AND YOU'RE FORCED TO TURN OVER
ALL THESE DIFFERENT DOCUMENTS,
SO THERE WEREN'T COMMUNICATIONS,
AT LEAST NOT WITH ANY THAT I
KNOW OF, LIKE MILITIA FOUNDERS
OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THE QUESTIONS WERE REALLY MORE
PERTAINING TO THE DOCUMENTS YOU
HAD TURNED OVER.
AT LEAST FOR ME, IT DIDN'T GO
INTO THAT.
>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THE
DOCUMENTS AND MOST OF THE
QUESTIONS FOCUSED ON?
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS
FRUSTRATING FOR ME IS THEY EVEN
WILL ADMIT TO YOU, WE HAVE
REVIEWED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF DOCUMENTS, WE HAVE
INTERVIEWED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE.
WE HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE YOU
HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, SO YOU
SHOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE HERE
TODAY.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, I'M VERY AWARE
I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, BUT
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT I'M
FORCED AND BEING COMPELLED TO BE
HERE BY CONGRESS.
AND IT DOES RAISE A LOT OF
QUESTIONS.
I THINK WITH THIS COMMITTEE DOES
NOW SETS A PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE
CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS.
AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHEN THERE IS A
REPUBLICAN-LED CONGRESS, YOU
HAVE OPENED PANDORA'S BOX HERE,
AND I DO HOPE THAT THE COMMITTEE
TAKES THAT SERIOUSLY AND DOES
LOOK FORWARD, PAST 2022, AND
REALIZE THE IMPLICATIONS THAT
DOING THIS COULD HAVE IN THE
FUTURE.
>> THEY'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AS
WELL AS GINNI THOMAS BECAUSE
THEY OBTAINED SOME OF HER TEXT
MESSAGES.
YOU MENTIONED THE RESEARCH.
DID YOU OUR YOUR FELLOW
ORGANIZERS HAVE CONTACT WITH
HER?
>> I HAVE NEVER THE OPPORTUNITY
TO MEET HER.
I HAVE NEVER SPOKEN WITH HER,
BUT I FEEL TERRIBLE FOR HER.
SHE'S A PRIVATE CITIZEN.
SHE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO HER OWN
BELIEFS.
I HAVE A VERY BIG PROBLEM WITH
CONGRESS TAKING PRIVATE MESSAGES
OF INDIVIDUALS AND THEN
SELECTIVELY LEAKING THOSE TO
SORT OF EMBARRASS AND HUMILIATE
PEOPLE ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.
SO GINNI THOMAS, SHE SEEMS TO BE
A WONDERFUL, STRONG, PASSIONATE
LEADER.
BUT --
>> ONE OF YOUR CO-ORGANIZERS
QUOTEDED YOU AS SAYING THOMAS
WAS PLAYING A PEACE MAKING ROLE
AMONG THE DIFFERENT FACTIONS.
IS THAT ACCURATE THAT YOU SAID
THAT OR WHERE DID YOU GET THAT
IDEA FROM?
>> THAT WAS A QUOTE FROM ANOTHER
INDIVIDUAL.
I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED BY IT.
I THINK IN THE ARTICLE, IT SAYS
MS. WREN DISPUTES THAT, BUT I
DIDN'T REALLY -- I DON'T FEEL
COMFORTABLE LITIGATING OUT
PEOPLE'S PERSONAL MESSAGES THAT
I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT
CONGRESS HAS A RIGHT TO IN THE
FIRST PLACE, AND TO COMMENT EACH
TIME INDIVIDUALLY WHEN PRESS
REACHES OUT ON THOSE.
BUT I DID NOT EVER HEAR OR
UNDERSTAND MS. THOMAS TO HAVE
THAT ROLE.
>> THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.
THAT'S YOU GIVING THE VIEW.
YOU MENTIONED THE TEXTS.
THERE'S GOVERNMENT TEXTS THAT
CONGRESS HAS OBTAINED.
KATRINA PIERSON WAS SOMEONE WHO
WAS THE LIAISON TO THE WHITE
HOUSE, AS YOU KNOW, AND SHE SAID
IN A TEXT TO MR. MEADOWS AT THE
TIME CHIEF OF STAFF, VERY
POWERFUL GUY, THAT SHE WAS
CONCERNED YOU WERE, QUOTE,
MOVING FORWARD, AGAIN I'M
QUOTING, WITH QUOTE, THE
ORIGINAL PSYCHO LIST OF SPEAKERS
THAT DAY, AND THAT SHE WOULD
RATHER LEAVE THAN BE A PART OF
YOU EMBARRASSING THE PRESIDENT.
WHAT WAS SHE TALKING ABOUT, HER
VIEW THERE IS SOMEHOW YOU WERE
PUSHING A NEGATIVE EMBARRASSING,
AND EXTREME AGENDA OR SET OF
SPEAKERS AT THE RALLY.
YOUR RESPONSE?
>> I THINK IT'S SIMILAR TO THE
THOMAS TEXT.
I THINK IT IS, THESE TEXT
MESSAGES THAT CONGRESS HAS GONE
IN AND TAKEN FROM HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT ONESOVER
A YEAR'S TIME, AND THEN THEY'RE
SELECTIVELY LEAKING JUST IN
LITTLE POCKETS OF TIME DIFFERENT
INFORMATION OUT TO EMBARRASS
FOLKS.
AND SO I THINK IT IS WRONG.
IT IS KIND OF GROTESQUE ALMOST
TO EVEN HAVE TO LISTEN TO THOSE
HAPPENING AND PLAY OUT LIKE
THAT.
I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
THERE WERE TWO SEPARATE EVENTS.
AN EVENT AT THE WHITE HOUSE
ELLIPSE AND 1.5 MILES AWAY, SOME
BAD ACTORS TOOK PLACE AND
VIOLENCE AT THE CAPITOL, BUT THE
DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE
INVOLVED ORGANIZING AND
ATTENDING A PROTEST FROM THOSE
WHO HAVE INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE AT
THE CAPITOL HAS BECOME A
HALLMARK OF SPEAKER PELOSI'S
EFFORTS TO EMBED THE EVENTS OF
JANUARY 6th INTO THE AMERICAN
PSYCHE AND TO INDICT AND
HUMILIATE THOSE OF US IN
POLITICAL DISSENT.
I WOULD IMAGINE ISOLATED TEXT
MESSAGES THEY LEAK OUT TO FINISH
THEIR NARRATIVE, I WOULD CAUTION
AMERICANS FROM GOING INTO THAT
GAME.
>> YOU'RE RAISING SOMETHING
REALLY IMPORTANT THAT HAS BECOME
A REAL FAULT LIKE IN THE
DISCUSSION OF THAT.
THAT'S WHY I APPRECIATE YOU
COMING ON, BECAUSE LET'S DISCUSS
IT.
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THERE'S A FREE
SPEECH RIGHT FOR PEOPLE TO
PEACEFULLY GATHER AND SPEAK AND
SHARE SHARE VIEWS ABOUT THE
ELECTION, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY FREE
SPEECH, AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY
PART OF THE AMERICAN TRADITION.
WHEN THEN A BUNCH OF PEOPLE FROM
THAT SAME PLACE AND GATHERING GO
AND DO VIOLENCE AND DO AN
INSURRECTION, THAT'S BAD.
AND SO WITH TRUMP SUMMONING THEM
ON THE 6th, THOSE PEOPLE CAME.
MANY OF THEM, AS YOU KNOW, WENT
TO THE SPEECH PART AND THEN THAT
WAS A WARMUP, A PROVERBIAL
INSURRECTION PREPARTY, FOR GOING
TO GO DO VIOLENCE AT THE CAPITOL
AND DO THE INSURRECTION.
SO I TAKE YOUR POINT THAT THE
SPEECH PART IS PROTECTED AND
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GO.
BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE DID.
WHICH IS WHY THIS IS SUCH A BIG
DEAL.
WHEN PEOPLE HEAR YOU SAY AND
OTHER ORGANIZERS SAY THIS IS
COMPLETELY DIVORCED, HOW MANY
PEOPLE WERE AT THE RALLY AND HOW
MANY PEOPLE VIOLENTLY TRESPASSED
AND BREACHED THE CAPITOL?
DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBERS?
>> THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF
THOSE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. ON
JANUARY 6th DID NOT PARTICIPATE
IN THE VIOLENCE AT THE CAPITOL.
IT IS VERY MUCH OVERWHELMING.
IT WAS -- I HAVE SEEN REPORTS OF
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
WHO WERE THERE THAT DAY.
THERE HAS TO BE PERSONAL
ACCOUNTABILITY HERE.
>> SO YOUR CONTENTION -- I WILL
LET YOU FINISH BUT THE FACTS --
>> THERE'S VIOLENCE, THEY'RE
PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.
>> WILL SMITH DEFINITELY WRONG
TO DO VIOLENCE.
WHEN YOU SAY YOU THINK WHAT THE
RALLY WAS, THE NUMBERS MATTER.
YOU GAVE ME HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE
BREACHED THE CAPITOL, ROUGHLY?
>> I DO NOT.
>> IT WAS, ACCORDING TO MULTIPLE
INDEPENDENT ESTIMATES AND A LOT
OF DATA ON THIS, A LOT OF
DOCUMENTATION, IT'S ABOUT 10,000
PEOPLE WHO WERE AT THE JANUARY
6th RALLY.
AND IT'S 2,000 WHO BREACHED THE
CAPITOL.
SO THAT MEANS THAT 1 OUT OF 5
PEOPLE ROUGHLY WHO WERE AT YOUR
RALLY WENT FROM THERE TO GO DO
CRIME.
>> THOSE NUMBERS ARE VERY OFF
BASE.
THERE WAS WAY, WAY MORE, IF YOU
LOOK AT THE PICTURES.
PEOPLE WHO HAD COME TO D.C. WHO
WERE AT THE WHITE HOUSE ELLIPSE.
>> THOSE ARE ROUGH ESTIMATES.
SO 2,000 IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.
YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY THAT'S
MORE THAN A HANDFUL OF BAD
APPLES, RIGHT?
THAT WAS A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF
PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WERE ABLE TO
BREACH THE CAPITOL POLICE WHO
WERE ARMED.
THEY WERE ABLE TO DO VIOLENCE.
YOU SAW THEM OVERWHELMING.
HOT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO
LOOK AT THIS RALLY AND SAY, YES,
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK AND
GATHER, BUT YOU HELPED PLAN AN
EVENT THAT FURNISHED A ROAD FOR
2,000 PEOPLE TO GO DO THIS
VIOLENCE?
ISN'T THAT WRONG?
DON'T YOU CONDEMN THAT?
>> SURE, I CONDEMN ANY FORMS OF
VIOLENCE AND ANY ACT OF
VIOLENCE.
BUT I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR
ASSISTING OTHERS IN GATHERING IN
THE NATION'S CAPITAL TO AIR
THEIR GRIEVANCES OF GOVERNMENT
IN A PEACEFUL WAY, WHICH IS WHAT
HAPPENED AT THE WHITE HOUSE
ELLIPSE.
THERE WERE NO DISTURBANCES AT
THE ELLIPSE.
THE EVENT WAS LAWFULLY PERMITTED
AND A PEACEFUL PROTEST.
I BELIEVE THAT'S A PRIMARY
PILLAR OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
>> BUT THE 2000 PEOPLE, THEY
HEARD THE SPEECHES THERE, THEY
HEARD FROM THE PRESIDENT, AND
THEN THEY WENT AND ATTACKED THE
CAPITOL.
HE TOLD THEM, GO TO THE CAPITOL.
SO DON'T YOU THINK THAT IF YOU
COULD DO IT OVER, HERE'S ANOTHER
WAY TO SAY IT, BECAUSE I
RECOGNIZE YOUR FREE SPEECH
RIGHTS AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT
CONVERSATION FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR.
IF YOU COULD DO IT OVER, WOULD
YOU WANT THE PRESIDENT AT THE
TIME NOT TO TELL PEOPLE TO GO
MARCH ON THE CAPITOL?
>> I THINK IT'S VERY HARD TO
LOOK BACK AND -- I HAVE NO
INVOLVEMENT IN THE SPEECH
WRITING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THAT IS NOT A ROLE I PLAY.
MY ROLE AS A VIP ADVISER WAS TO
ASSIST IN THE SEATING AND
CREDENTIALING PROCESS WHICH IS A
ROLE I HAVE DONE AT HUNDREDS OF
RALLIES AT MANY DIFFERENT
POLITICAL CANDIDATES AND EVENTS.
O GOING BACK IN TIME, THAT WOULD
NEVER HAVE BEEN MY ROLE TO PLAY
THERE.
>> I'M NOT ASKING YOU IF IT WAS
YOUR ROLE AT THE TIME.
>> CERTAINLY, THE EVENTS THAT
HAPPENED LATER THAT DAY WERE
VERY DIFFICULT TO WATCH, AND A
BAD DAY FOR DEMOCRACY, BUT I DO
THINK IT WAS AN ISOLATED NUMBER
OF PEOPLE.
THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
HAD EVERY RIGHT TO BE --
>> YOU MADE THAT POINT.
THAT'S ON THE RECORD.
BUT DONALD TRUMP SHOULD NOT HAVE
TOLD ALL THOSE PEOPLE GATHERED
AT YOUR RALLY TO GO MARCH ON THE
CAPITOL?
>> NO, HE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY
ANYTHING THAT HE WANTS TO SAY.
AND I DO NOT BELIEVE ONE LED TO
THE OTHER.
>> YOU DON'T BELIEVE HIM SENDING
THOSE PEOPLE FIRED UP FROM THERE
TO THE CAPITOL, YOU THINK THAT
HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT?
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT STRAINS
CREDIBILITY.
AGAIN, I RESPECT YOU COMING ON
THE PROGRAM.
I RESPECT YOU COOPERATED WITH
THE COMMITTEE.
PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO YOU, AND
IT SOUNDS LOGICAL UP TO A POINT.
THE FREE SPEECH PART, THE
GATHERING, BUT WHEN ROUGHLY 1
OUT OF 5 PEOPLE DO THAT AND THEY
WERE CHANTING HANG MIKE PENCE,
TRYING TO KILL MEMBERS OF
GRESDZ, AND DONALD TRUMP --
>> YOU'RE PULLING OUT SELECT
PHRASES TO HELP FIT A NARRATIVE.
EVERYONE THERE WAS NOT CHANTING
HANG MIKE PENCE.
>> I'LL FINISH AND LET YOU
RESPOND.
IT'S WHAT THEY SAID AND DID.
THEY ATTACKS THE POLICE
OFFICERS, WE HAVE SEEN VIDEO,
AND IT WAS A REAL SIGNIFICANT
PORTION OF THE PEOPLE, AND THEY
WENT BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENT'S
WORDS.
SO IT'S CONFUSING UNLESS THERE'S
A POLITICAL REASON, IT'S
CONFUSING TO NOT BE ABLE TO SAY
GIVEN WHAT YOU KNOW NOW, IF YOU
ARE AGAINST THE VIOLENCE, YOU'RE
TELLING US YOU'RE AGAINST THE
VIOLENCE, WOULDN'T YOU BE
AGAINST THE SENDING OF THE
PEOPLE WHO DID THE VIOLENCE?
>> I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES
SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON HERE THAT I
CONDEMN ANY VIOLENCE, BUT IT WAS
NOT MY EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I SAW
THAT DAY.
AT THE COMPLETELY PEACEFUL AND
LAWFULLY PERMITTED EVENT AT THE
WHITE HOUSE ELLIPSE, I SAW WAY
MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE, FIRST
OF ALL, AND IN MY IMMEDIATE LINE
OF SIGHT, THE PEOPLE I DEALT
WITH, THERE WERE NUNS, STUDENTS,
TOTALLY PEACEFUL.
AND A LOT OF THE PEOPLE CAME AND
WENT HOME, AND ALSO I THINK IT
IS ALSO LITTLE DISHONEST TO NOT
LOOK AT THE TIMELINE OF EVENTS.
THE WHITE HOUSE ELLIPSE IS 1.5
MILES AWAY FROM THE U.S. CAPITOL
CAPITOL.
WHEN THE PRESIDENT, YOU SAID
EARLIER, WAS SPEAKING, PEOPLE,
IT'S NOW VERY MUCH KNOWN AND
DOCUMENTED THERE WERE ALREADY
DISTURBANCES HAPPENING AT THE
CAPITOL.
FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO MAKE IT
DOWN IN TIME, THE TIMING DOESN'T
EVEN WORK OUT.
AND SAYING 1 IN 5 INDIVIDUALS IS
ALSO, I THINK, DISHONEST.
IT WAS NOT 1 IN 5 INDIVIDUALS.
I THINK THERE'S MANY PRESS
REPORTS THAT WILL SHOW WAY MORE
THAN 10,000 PEOPLE WERE IN
WASHINGTON, D.C. THAT DAY,
SPREAD OUT, AND SO I DON'T THINK
THOSE NUMBERS ARE CORRECT.
>> YEAH, WELL, CAROLINE, AS
MNGSZ
MENTIONED, YOU COOPERATED WITH
THE COMMITTEE, YOU CAME ON TO
TAKE THE QUESTIONS.
WE APPRECIATE THAT.