Claire Brock: A report into the celebration stated that a serious breach of social distancing
rules had occurred, while earlier in the Dáil, Sinn Féin's Pearse Doherty
criticised the report and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Simon Coveney.
Pearse Doherty: This is typical at Concordance,
in my view, of a Minister now that is out of touch, that has been at the helm
for too long and that his judgement has been called into question now
more and more often.
Micheál Martin: Genuinely taken back
by your tone and your attitude on this one.
You are the deputy leader of a party
that invited almost 2,000 members and supporters onto the streets of Belfast
and then to a political Valley, essentially in Midtown Cemetery,
at a time when the ordinary men and women that you speak about were limited
They were distraught because they couldn't attend the funeral of their loved ones.
CB: Well, still here in studio is Minister of State in the Department of Transport,
Hildegarde Naughton, People Before Profit Solidarity TD Mick Barry and Political
Editor for the Irish Independent, Philip Ryan.
And Philip, 19 months on from this, what could now be considered that infamous
get together at the Department of Foreign Affairs.
Did this report by the current Secretary
general of that Department bring clarity on what happened that night?
Philip Ryan: In many respects, it was comprehensive and it was quite
cutting in some of its recommendations and some of its findings.
The current Secretary General didn't
really hold back in some of his comments on his predecessor, Niall Burgess.
He said he was responsible for the gathering.
He said he made life difficult or made junior staff put them in a more difficult
situation by getting together for this picture.
But there does seem to be some questions still left out there.
For instance, like we were told,
this wasn't planned, this wasn't impromptu,
but you did have people showing up who were on maternity leave.
There was plans put in place for watching the vote.
They discussed where they would watch the vote, so they knew they were coming
together to view this thing, to see the vote come in.
They will try to draw demarcation and say there's a difference between that
part to get together and the fact that wine suddenly appeared once the vote.
And it was just all the good feeling and celebration that was almost accidentally
that they started drinking glasses of champagne in the middle of the office.
CB: Yeah, questions, too.
And we heard Pearse Doherty earlier also stating
that within this report that Joe Hackett compiled, we didn't hear about the role
of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and all of this.
Simon Coveney. Now, he was there later
on and at that point, that selfie crowd, that photo had taken place,
but nonetheless, he was there and he would have known about the gathering.
So questions there to be answered, the opposition say.
Hildegarde Naughton: Well, I think it's very clear
that Minister Coveney would be the first to say that that breach of social
distancing guidelines shouldn't have happened.
This was people at work in the workplace.
They were socially distanced, and they came together for a selfie.
And it was a moment of, I think, a really misguided, misjudged moment.
And it's important to say that Minister Coveney came later
in the evening to thank the staff who had worked so hard that day on Ireland,
securing a place on the United Nations Council,
and left after 15 minutes, went back to his own office.
So he was not part of that event.
And again, I think we would all say that it shouldn't have happened.
Minister Coveney said that it was a serious breach of the guidelines and it was
reviewed and was investigated by the accounting officer,
which is the Secretary general, as should be, because this was a breach
within a workplace, and it was up to the Secretary general of the Department
CB: The fact the Minister would have known about it.
And there were no sanctions 19 months ago.
And it's only come to light in the past
few weeks while it came to light around Christmas time.
And it's dragging now into this month.
And the Minister having to clarify
what he knew and why he didn't act and his handling of the matter.
HN: And I think Minister Kovani has been clear
in that he asked the Secretary general to carry out a review.
And it's important.
There is a distinction between as well as
accountability or any HR matters or staffing matters within the Department.
That is not a matter for any Minister
to instigate any kind of disciplinary proceedings.
That is up to the accounting officer, which is the Secretary general.
And that was done. And even the picture today and the ball
was very clear in relation to the facts that came out in that report.
And I think, as I say,
the Minister is accountable to the Oireachtas,
and he will appear I understand the Oireachtas will be asking him to come there.
But it's very important to say Minister Coveney was not part of that.
It was members within the staff within
the Department who breached regulations.
CB: I want to ask you about that because
you were shaking your head there when
Hildegard was explaining earlier the Minister wasn't part of that celebration.
Mick Barry: Sure. Okay.
So just a wee bit of context first. Okay.
Because this was at the same time as
people who couldn't go to funerals of loved ones,
who had loved ones dying in nursing homes and they couldn't visit them.
And that is the reason why people are so
obsessed with the carry on that we saw in the Department of Foreign Affairs.
You know -
The Minister says that
you say that he is the forced to say that it shouldn't have happened.
Right.
Well, he knew about it fairly quickly,
very slow to get an investigation underway.
Then you have an in house investigation of the civil servants investigating
the civil servants rather than an outside investigation.
And the Minister isn't even interviewed.
HN: The Minister wasn't there.
And this is the reason it is up to the Secretary
general of the Department it is the role of the accounting officer who is
the Secretary general of the Department to instigate disciplinary proceedings it is
not the role of the Minister Simon Coveney was not there that's very clear
at the time he heard about it after the event and it was up to this
with the Secretary General he understood what deal with that but knowing
He did say this morning he did say this morning Mr.
Coveney did say this morning knowing now
the issue that it has become after 18 months he did ask then the now Secretary
General to carry out a review which is appropriate that is his role
but the Minister is accountable absolutely to the Oireachtas but it is up
to the Secretary General who is the accounting agent within
any government Department to assess and to carry out a review of the staff.
CB: Just on that, do you think now that -
this report had been submitted before the Dáil Committee,
The Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs, so
when he presents himself in front of that committee, what should he be asked?
HN: It's up to the members of the committee.
CB: Do you think there is always questions or do you think this is case closed?
HN: I don't think there are
but if the Oireachtas Committee and that is their right and Minister Coveney
remains accountable to the Oireachtas Committee he has gone before them
in the past and he will do again and I know he's been very open and transparent.
And I think anybody who knows that any fair minded person will know
that Minister Simon Coveney is somebody of the highest integrity,
a very hard worker and it has always been transparent and open and he will be
the first to say that this should not have happened and there was a breach.
CB: Philip Ryan when he does appear before that are off this committee what
questions do you think need to be answered around the event?
PR Well, the main one would be why didn't you do anything about this? Why did he know about
this he saw it happening and like Deputy Barry said,
it happened in the midst of what was still essentially lockdown in the country you
couldn't leave your county, you weren't supposed to go to work,
you had to have a serious essential reason to go into an office in the first place
calling a few diplomats in other countries I wouldn't have thought justified
that report says that was fine and that should be okay. But the domain
and overarching question for Simon Coveney is you knew about this in June 2020 but you
did nothing and you only did something when the photo re-emerged and you were
dragged kicking and screaming into carrying out a review.