- I'm going to react to an old Dolly Parton interview
that's gaining a lot of attention lately.
My older brother recommended this one, actually,
and he was one of my first subscribers almost six years ago.
And he is still watching.
So this one's for you.
So we're gonna look at how Barbara Walters and Dolly Parton,
handle themselves here.
And I welcome you to offer your own comments
in that section below.
I'll put a link to the original video
that I'm watching from that channel.
And thank you, Happy Mag, for re-posting this.
For some background,
this interview happened in 1977.
Dolly was around 31 years old
and Walters was 16 years older than her.
I believe about 47 at the time.
So by then,
both Walters and Dolly were already known public figures.
Dolly had had huge hits already like, "Jolene,"
and "I will always love you".
She was on a popular TV show for years.
Walters was an established and respected TV journalist.
She was interviewing people like Fidel Castro
and other high profile figures.
From an educational standpoint,
it's true that you and I won't be
in high level interviews like this,
but we will find ourselves in difficult conversations,
job interviews,
and handling questions and answers after presentations.
This conversation has a lot of lessons to learn
about what to do
and what not to do.
So we'll take this one chunk at a time.
- Dolly, where I come from,
would I have called you a hillbilly?
- If you had of,
it would've been something very natural
but I would've probably kicked your shins or something.
(Dolly chuckles)
No, actually-
- But when I think of the reason,
I'm thinking of your kind of people.
- I think you probably are.
The people that grew up where I was,
were the ones
that you would consider the "Li'l Abner" people,
"Daisy Mae", and that sort of thing.
They took that kind of thing
from people like us.
But we were very proud people,
people with a lot of class.
It was country class,
but it was a great deal of class.
And most of my people were not that educated
but they are very, very intelligent,
good common sense.
"Horse sense," we called it.
- First, Barbara Walters' questions here,
are already fairly insulting.
She's deliberately communicating
in an "Us vs. Them" mindset.
She says, "Where I'm from,
would I have called you a hillbilly?"
- Dolly, where I come from,
would I have called you a hillbilly.
- She contrasts, "Where I'm from" with your kind of people,
and even points at herself
and then points at Dolly.
The word, "Hillbilly,"
is considered an insult.
But I love how Dolly playfully says,
that had Walters said that,
she probably would've kicked her shins.
But Walters just looks at her with a stone face
and interrupts Dolly
as she's trying to answer
and asks her again.
- But when I think of hillbillies,
am I thinking of your kind of people.
- I think- - We're one segment in here
and she's already said hillbilly twice.
Walters is trying to use a soft tone of voice
as she asks her questions.
But I don't see the benefit of these questions
in the first place.
She's not showing any goodwill.
She's not trying to establish any common ground.
Her questions seem designed to antagonize Dolly
but the big news here is how Dolly answers.
She takes the high road.
She stays composed,
stays 100% positive.
She describes the people in her hometown community
as proud people,
people with a lot of class.
- Most of my people were not that educated
but they are very, very intelligent.
- She's polite, respectful.
And if you only heard Dolly's response,
her side of the conversation,
you'd never know that Walters' question was a cheap shot.
You can see the different approaches here
in the conversation,
already very clearly.
Check plus for Dolly Parton,
check minus for Walters.
- Dolly, did you look like this when you were a kid?
- [Dolly] Not quite.
- I mean, you didn't have the blonde wig.
But when you went to school,
when you were 11, 12, 13,
was it this about you?
- Well you mean the full figure?
(both laugh)
- [Walters] Yeah, that's what I meant.
- Yeah, I thought that's what you meant.
Well, actually, I've always been pretty well blessed.
As a child, I grew up fast.
Other members of my family have done the same.
- My assistant asked me something
and I'm gonna blame it on her
because I wouldn't have had the nerve otherwise.
Is it all you?
(Dolly chuckles)
- Well, I can't show you here right on television.
- I'll take you word for it.
- I get asked that question.
I always answer that by...
Because people are in all of the whole thing.
A lot of people say I have.
A lot of people say I haven't.
I always say that if I hadn't have had it on my own,
I'm just the kind of person that would've had this made.
- You can see Walters give Dolly the elevator eyes
for these questions.
She looks her up and down
and she asks if Dolly looked like this growing up.
She points at Dolly's body
and she asks, "Is this all you?"
Walters literally blames her assistant for this question.
- My assistant asked me something
and I'm gonna blame it on her,
because I wouldn't have had the nerve otherwise.
- This is an old version of a journalism trick.
"I'm not asking.
People are asking.
I'm just reporting."
But look, Dolly's been asked this question many times before
about her, "full figure,"
as she puts it.
This is familiar conversational territory.
And she handles this personal
and potentially rude comment
with charm and class.
She was obviously more comfortable talking about it
than Walters was.
Again, check plus for Dolly,
check minus for Walters
for asking very stereotypical questions.
- You don't have to look like this.
You're very beautiful.
You don't have to wear the blonde wigs.
You don't have to wear the extreme clothes, right?
- No, it's certainly a choice.
I don't like to be like everybody else.
I've often made this statement
that I would never stoop so low as to be fashionable.
That's the easiest thing in the world to do.
So I just decided that I would do something
that would at least get their attention.
Once they got past the shock
of the ridiculous way I looked and all that,
then they would see there was parts of me to be appreciated.
I'm very real where it counts,
and that's inside,
and as far as my outlook on life
and the way I care about people
and the way I care about myself
and the things that I care about.
But I just chose to do this,
and show business is a money making joke.
And I've just always liked telling jokes.
- Though Walters says here,
"You don't have to look like this."
And this I obviously is not a question.
It sounds like Walters just wants to provoke Dolly
and push her around in the conversation.
That, yes, she tells Dolly she's very beautiful.
But that momentary compliment,
came across as a way to justify the other put downs.
Saying, "You don't have to look like this,"
is clearly what we call,
a "One Up" move.
Walters is attempting to assert her dominance over Dolly
in the conversation.
She's playing the role of mother
while giving Dolly what we call, "unsolicited advice."
The problem is for most people in Dolly's situation,
it would be very difficult to not reply
with another "one up" comment.
She could have easily said, for example,
"Well, Barbara, you don't have to look like this."
That would be a "one up" move.
But Dolly had the good sense not to do that.
I've noticed over the years
that anytime a question and answer scenario is happening,
if you respond to a hostile question
with a hostile response,
you're the one that ends up looking bad.
If the person answering the question loses their composure,
it's the only thing anybody remembers.
But Dolly is smart enough
to use what's called, a "One Across" move.
That does not try to control the other person.
She just says and I'll paraphrase,
"Yes, the way I look is exaggerated
and this is entertainment.
It's show business."
But if people stick around, she says,
"They'll see that I'm very real where it counts,
and that's inside."
She's asserting herself
but she's not trying to put herself above Walters.
And while Dolly is talking,
this seems to be a rather pleasant conversation.
So, check plus for Dolly for not escalating
and another check minus for Walters for trying.
- But do you ever feel
that you're a joke
that people make fun of you?
- Oh, I know they make fun of me.
But, actually, over these years,
the people has thought the joke was on me
but it's actually been on the public.
I know exactly what I'm doing
and I can change it at any time,
where I make more jokes about myself than anybody
because I enjoy, I know it.
Like I said, I am sure of myself as a person.
I'm sure of my talent.
And to me...
And I'm sure of of my love and for life
and that sort of thing.
I'm very content.
I like the kind of person that I am.
So, I can afford to piddle around and do-diddle around
with makeups and clothes and stuff,
because I am secure with myself.
- This is a low point for Walters,
asking somebody if they feel like they're a joke.
But Walters uses an open door,
created by Dolly's last statement
that this is show business,
it's entertainment,
and that she likes telling jokes.
But imagine how you'd reply,
if somebody asked you if you ever felt like a joke.
That would really throw most people off.
And I was very impressed
by how Dolly actually reached a high point
and shined even brighter here in the interview.
So before I dissect this moment more,
let's talk about the way questions work.
In conversations,
exchanging statements keeps the conversation relatively open
and statements can make the conversation go
in any direction.
But questions instantly narrow the focus of the conversation
into a cone of possible responses.
Questions don't force you to answer in a certain way
but they do constrain what you say next,
because you're supposed to sound reasonable
and what you say is supposed to be relevant
to the conversation.
So the more challenging the question,
the more constraining that could feel.
Given those constraints,
Dolly handles this moment like a genius.
She stays within that narrow conversational cone
that Walters' aggressive question outlines,
but she uses the "Agree and Limit" technique
to express herself in her own terms.
I've heard people use versions of this in sales,
but Dolly uses it authentically.
So first she agrees.
She says, "Oh, I know they make fun of me."
So with that response,
she's already diffused most of the question,
but then she limits the scope of that agreement
and gives her own affirmative point of view.
She replies that the joke is on the critics.
She says, "Look, I make jokes about myself all the time
because I'm sure of myself as a person."
- I'm sure of my talent.
I like the kind of person that I am.
- This is my favorite moment in the interview.
And if I could just read into this a little more,
I think this is a not so indirect way
that Dolly is also implying to Walters,
the joke is also on you, Walters,
because you have clearly underestimated
this so called hillbilly.
Dolly gets another check plus
and Walters gets a double check minus
for another low blow.
The big takeaway lesson I get from this,
is that even though Walters took the low road
on almost every single question,
Dolly never took the bait.
She always took the high road.
And that's a great lesson for all of us.
Anytime we're in a tough conversation,
question and answer,
interview,
despite what the other person does,
we can always strive to take the high road
and speak in our own terms
and tell our own story.
Now, to be fair,
I think Barbara Walters did do some great interviews
over the years,
but this was not one of them.
If you would like,
I put a free PDF download for you
in the description below
on the seven instant tips
to help you to become a more confident public speaker.
But what are your thoughts about this interview?
What did I miss here?
And who else should I react to?
There's a little more to the interview
and I'll put a link to the original clip
that I watched, below.
And I look forward to reading your comments below,
take care.