♪♪♪ >> Stephen: WELCOME BACK,
EVERYBODY.
MY NEXT GUESTS ARE TWO INCREDIBLY TALENTED ARTISTS WHO
ARE THE PERFORMER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NEW FILM "IN AND OF
ITSELF."
PLEASE WELCOME TO "A LATE SHOW," DEREK DELGAUDIO AND FRANK OZ!
HEY, GUYS!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE!
>> HEY, STEPHEN.
GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> Stephen: NOW LITTLE CATCH-UP FOR THE AUDIENCE WHO
DIDN'T SEE LAST TIME DEREK WAS ON TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO --
IT'S BEEN A WHILE NOW -- >> YEAH.
>> Stephen: -- I CAME TO SEE THE SHOW THAT YOU CREATED AND
THAT FRANK DIRECTED "IN AND OF ITSELF" AT THE DARRELL ROTH
THEATER HERE IN NEW YORK.
EVIE AND I WERE SO BLOWN AWAY BY IT THAT WE WERE EAGER TO HELP
YOU MAKE IT INTO A FILM SO EVERYONE COULD SEE IT.
I WANTED THIS THING NOT ONLY TO BE PRESERVED BUT FOR EVERYONE TO
GET A CHANCE TO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE.
YOU AND I DID NOT DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING WHAT THAT SHOW
WAS BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY THINGS YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE
AWAY.
FRANK, I'M GOING TO HIT YOU HERE.
CAN YOU DO A BETTER JOB OF EXPLAINING WHAT THIS MOVIE IS
THAN WE DID IN EXPLAINING WHAT THAT PLAY IS?
WHAT'S IT ABOUT?
>> WELL, HERE'S THE THING -- I MEAN, IF I GIVE YOU MY OPINION
OR MY FEELING OVERWHAT IT'S ABOUT, IT'S A BETRAYAL OF THE
INTENT OF WHAT WE DID.
>> Stephen: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
THAT IS WHY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DESCRIBE THIS FILM OR THIS PLAY.
FRANK, THANKS FOR STOPPING BY, EVERYBODY.
DEREK, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
FRANK, ALWAYS A JOY TO SEE YOU.
>> AND YET, WHAT, TO ME, WHAT IS VALUABLE FOR SOMEBODY WHO WANTS
TO GO SEE SOMETHING IS THE MYSTERY OF IT AND THE INTRIGUE
OF NOT KNOWING WHAT IT IS.
>> Stephen: I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT YOU ON THAT ONE BECAUSE
IT'S TRUE.
THE PLAY WAS MYSTERIOUS, THIS MOVIE IS MYSTERIOUS AND IN SOME
WAYS IT IS ABOUT THE MYSTERY OF IDENTITY, AND, DEREK, WHY WAS IT
IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO CREATE A PIECE OF ART THAT WAS ABOUT
IDENTITY?
WHAT DID THAT MEAN TO YOU?
>> I MEAN, I THINK, LIKE ANYONE, I STRUGGLE WITH WHO I AM AND
WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO IN THIS WORLD AND FOUND MYSELF MAKING
DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT I THOUGHT OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT
EXPECT OF ME OR HOW THEY MIGHT SEE ME OR THE WORK THAT I DO,
AND I DECIDED, INSTEAD OF LETTING THAT KIND OF AFFECT ME
IN A WAY THAT WAS NEGATIVE, I DECIDED TO RUN TOWARDS THE FIRE
AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT DIVES HEAD-FIRST INTO THAT PROBLEM AND
MAKE A SHOW ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AND BE SEEN AND SEEING
OTHERS, MOSTLY.
>> Stephen: I MEAN, THE EXPERIENCE THAT I HAVE WATCHING
IT IS THE GRATITUDE OF -- WELL, AN ARTIST TALKING ABOUT THE
STRUGGLE TO BE SEEN AND ALSO THE FAILURE SO OFTEN AS TO SEE OTHER
PEOPLE AS THEY TRULY ARE.
AND BOTH OF YOU, IN THAT WAY, AS BOTH OF YOU SAID, IDENTITY
ITSELF IS AN ILLUSION, AND THIS MOVIE AND THE PLAY ACTUALLY
TACKLES THE CHALLENGE OF TALKING ABOUT THAT, WHICH, AS WE'VE
PROVEN JUST NOW, IS NOT ALWAYS EASY.
BUT BOTH OF YOU HAVE KIND OF AN UNEASY RELATIONSHIP AT TIMES
WITH HOW OTHER PEOPLE IDENTIFY YOU.
YOU KNOW, DEREK, SOMEONE MIGHT CALL YOU A MAGICIAN, OR, FRANK,
SOMEONE MIGHT PIGEON HOLE YOU FROM YOUR WORK WITH THE MUPPETS
AS A PUPPETEER.
WHY IS THAT UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN PEOPLE PUT IT ON YOU.
>> BECAUSE IT'S LIMITING.
WHEN I'M CALLED A PUPPETEER OR DEREK CALLED A MAGICIAN, IT'S
THE THE PERCEPTION OF THE PUPPPUPPETEER AND WHAT IT MEANS
B A PUPPETEER.
AND THE PERCEPTION IS THEY PERCEIVE IT TO BE ONE THING, AND
THAT HAPPENS TO BE ALWAYS STEREOTYPICAL, AND THAT
STEREOTYPICAL VERSION OF WHAT THAT AMERICAN IS ALWAYS
LIMITING, AND THAT'S AGAINST THE LAYERS AND COMPLEXITIES AS HUMAN
BEINGS AND THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME.
>> Stephen: AND, DEREK, WHAT IS THE HESITANCE YOU HAVE WITH
THE LABEL OF MAGICIAN?
>> IT'S ABOUT, I GUESS, LEGIBILITY FOR THE WORK, AND
THAT WORD "MAGIC" OR "MAGICIAN" IT REALLY IS POTENT, AND A LOT
OF IMAGERY COMES INTO ONE'S HEAD.
I DON'T KNOW EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS.
BUT, YES, THERE'S THAT.
BUT EVEN THE BEST VERSION OF IT STILL PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM
ACTUALLY SEEING OR HEARING WHAT I'M TRYING TO PUT IN FRONT OF
THEM, BECAUSE EVEN IF IT ISN'T A PEJORATIVE, IT'S STILL -- IT
PUTS SOMETHING IN THEIR MIND THAT SAYS WHAT THE CONTEXT IS
ABOUT, THAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DECEIVE YOU, AND THIS IS ABOUT
ME FOOLING YOU, AND THAT'S THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCT THAT WE HAVE,
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THE WORK IS ABOUT FOR ME AT ALL.
AND, SO, I GUESS JUST KIND OF TRYING TO GET THEM TO SEE IT
WITH FRESH EYES AND NOT HAVE THAT PRECONCEIVED NOTION OF WHAT
THEY'RE GOING INTO IS ONE STEP, YOU KNOW -- IT'S THE BEGINNING
OF THE PROCESS, GOING TO THIS CLEAN, NOT NECESSARILY ASSUMING
WHAT YOU THINK THIS IS OR WHO I AM, IS PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO
ENTER THIS EXPERIENCE.
>> AND THERE'S A POSITIVE I THINK, STEPHEN, ABOUT PEOPLE
THINKING IT WAS MAGIC BECAUSE THEY COME -- THEY CAME TO A
THEATER THINKING IT WAS MAGIC, AND IT TURNS OUT MAGIC WAS THE
TROJAN HORSE BECAUSE, AFTER 15 MINUTES OF SAYING, WHOA, WAIT A
SECOND, THIS IS A LOT MORE THAN I THOUGHT, AND THEY FORGET ABOUT
IT AND THEY'RE MOVED TORE REASONS THEY DON'T -- FOR
REASONS THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW.
>> Stephen: THAT IS ONE TO HAVE THE STARTLING THINGS ABOUT
THIS IS IT'S STORYTELLING, THESE ARE TRUE STORIES ABOUT YOUR LIFE
THAT ARE ILLUMINATED THROUGH THESE ILLUSIONS THAT YOU DO.
BUT THESE ARE DEEPLY AFFECTING STORIES AND, FOR LACK OF A
BETTER WORD, THE ACTUAL MAGIC IS GOING ON INSIDE OF US ABOUT HOW
WE PERCEIVE YOU AND HOW ANYONE WATCHING THE FILM PERCEIVES EACH
OTHER OR THE AUDIENCE IN THE THEATER WHERE YOU'RE SEEING IT
SHOT.
EVIE AND I ARE SO PROUD TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH OF YOU, AND
THIS IS POSSIBLY THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING THAT I HAVE HAD
ANY PART IN MAKING, IN THAT SMALL WAY THAT WE WERE ABLE TO
HELP YOU.
AND AS I ALWAYS DO TO PEOPLE WATCHING AT HOME, I AM URGING
YOU TO GO SEE IT BECAUSE I THINK IT REALLY IS A FILM OF THIS
MOMENT, AND IT IS A REMINDER THAT WE CAN ALL BE A BETTER
COMMUNITY, A BETTER COUNTRY, A BETTER HUMANITY, IF WE JUST SEE
EACH OTHER, AND THAT'S THE TRUE MAGIC OF WHAT DEREK AND FRANK
HAVE CREATED HERE IS THAT IT OPENS OUR EYES TO EACH OTHER AND
TO OURSELVES, AND THAT'S A LIBERATING FEELING.
>> AND THIS IS THE TIME FOR THAT, ACTUALLY.
>> Stephen: "IN AND OF ITSELF" PREMIERES TOMORROW ON HULU.
DEREK DELGAUDIO AND FRANK OZ, EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.