Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features,
and debate from the quirky world of cricket. I'm Alison Mitchell in London.
I've had a trip up to the Midlands this week doing a little bit of
filming ahead of the Ashes, and since we last spoke, I also had an early, well very early,
Christmas dinner with the family because, of course, I'll be in Australia at Christmas time,
so we had bad Christmas cracker jokes and everything. But before I fly out, there's a bit of
radio commentary to be done on the men's T20 World Cup as well, so plenty to keep me out of mischief.
Jim Maxwell in Sydney, Ali. Yes, well, you're about to jump on a plane... Well,
you know what I did today for the first time in five months? I jumped in a car,
and I went over the Harbour Bridge! I've not been beyond my local government area for all that time.
We're out of lockdown. This freedom is outrageous! And hopefully by the time
the Ashes start, they'll even allow people to go and watch it.
I'm Sunil Gupta for All India Radio in New Delhi, where I can tell you the one and only thing
on the minds of one fifth of humanity is the big game in the T20 World Cup on Sunday.
And if ever the adage that paucity raises the pitch, raises hopes and raises expectations
and the stakes to come here is to come to life, well Sunday is the day it's going to happen.
Just an example, Inzamam-ul-Haq said today, I read, that this "is the final
before the final." I'm sure you guys will understand exactly what I mean.
No pressure! Of course, you're talking about India vs Pakistan in the men's T20 World Cup.
Jim, congratulations on the freedom! I mean, contain yourself, but we're glad that you've sat back and
stayed in specially for us to record Stumped when you could be out and about enjoying your freedom.
Let me give you one bad cracker joke to start with, because it was too good to let go.
Why do baker's work so hard?
Go on
Because they..... knead the dough!
It was a good one! Well, it was a bad one. Anyway, I want to start this week
with the very strong rumours coming out of India, Sunil, that Rahul Dravid is going to be the next
coach of the men's national side and he'll replace Ravi Shastri at the end of the T20 World Cup.
What is the latest on this? And do you think he's the right man to take over?
Oh, I think it's a done deal. I mean, it's just the formalities be gone through, which is that
he's actually got to put in an application and all the rest of it. But it's a done deal. I mean,
it's done, done, done! And if you're asking me if he's the right man; absolutely no question
that he's the right person, in the right place, at the right time. And that does not always happen.
The two things that sum up Rahul Dravid for me is that in the Junior World Cup in, I think New Zealand,
in 2019, he actually said that everyone in the squad would get a game, and everyone got a game.
That's the type of person he is. And then finally, I mean the top of it all,
he gave up the captaincy of the Indian Test team and remained just a player, and let me tell you,
it does not happen. It just does not happen. Certainly not in my lifetime. So, that,
if nothing else, sums up Rahul Dravid. It's always self-esteem before me.
My experience of Rahul Dravid is that he is indeed a man of great humility. And that came across even
when he joined us for some radio commentary at the 2011 World Cup throughout India.
I remember just a small example. The great man that he is; India's best number three,
former captain, before we even had a chance to ask if he wants a cup of tea. He's asking
all of us if you can go and get us tea. You know, little things like that. He's just a good human.
Jim, I saw Michael Vaughan, the former England Captain, tweet that if the rumours are indeed
true and Dravid will become coach, then he said the "rest of the world better beware."
Again, just a mark of, I guess, how highly regarded he is?
Yes, he's one of the most respected people in the world of cricket, I don't think there's any doubt
about that. I mean, India are already a juggernaut under Virat Kohli and Shastri.
Yes, the mentorship will be important, but it's just the fact that India are now producing
a depth and quality of players that we're going to see an Indian team that will be very hard to
beat in all forms of the game from here on. And then Dravid will just be the moulding,
mentoring force around it, so you know, everyone beware. India have been on the rise.
They haven't hit the top yet, but I think they're just going to get stronger and more successful.
Sunil, how do you look back then on Ravi Shastri's tenure
as coach? There have been some significant wins along the way. What will his legacy be?
Well, I think he and Kohli bonded very well; a bit too well, if you know what I mean. I mean,
you know, they were not chalk and cheese, they were cheese and cheese like Stilton and Roquefort,
you know that type of thing. They're both sharp, both their own men, and I think to
call an expression Jim will like this - I think what Shastri brought to the Indian team was the
Australian touch. You know, in your face, all out aggression, and he had Virat Kohli as his point
man to do that and both of them really formed that excellent bond that really made India come
out of its shell. India was always seen as being sort of, if not meek, but certainly you know,
not in your face, not aggressive. And I think that that was a very important step that we took,
and he was the man behind that four man pace attack, which today I think is one of the best
in the world, especially in Test cricket. He's won now in Australia, and finally in England,
but there will be a couple of things, I think, that he will think back on. We shall see, but no,
I think that he was good for the team in the time that he was there, he bonded well, as I said with
Kohli, and he was he was respected, he was looked up at. I have no doubt that he will do even better
when he finishes the coach and goes back to his commentary, or whatever else he plans to do.
Yeah, there was a time - I think it was 2013, when India were touring England,
and so a sort of younger version of Virat Kohli, but I sat in the bar of the hotel
with Ravi and a number of the players after a One Day International and the way they looked
on Ravi almost as this fatherly figure, but one who they could talk to about anything.
They really spoke about how he broke down those barriers and they felt very comfortable with him
in that role. That speaks volumes as well. Now we spoke last week on the podcast about
India being amongst the favourites to win the T20 World Cup. How much pressure is on the side?
I guess especially with it being Shastri's last tournament as well, but more so, as you mentioned,
the enormous scale of the opening match that they face.
Well, I think both Kohli and he are feeling same pain and pressure. They haven't won an
ICC event between them. I think that is going to rankle, and of course, you know I mean Kohli's
captaincy swansong in the IPL didn't go too well. He's now going to give up the T20 captaincy and
there's word about that he's going to give up the ODI captaincy as well to Rohit Sharma, so Rahul Dravid
is actually going to have two captains. Ravi Shastri had one for all three formats.
Rahul Dravid is going to be working with two, so I think that's going to be another aspect of it.
But, certainly, I think both Kohli and Shastri - certainly Shastri - would be very keen to fill up
this blank in their CV's, because, as I said, no ICC event; the World Cup, the previous T20, The
ICC World Test championship didn't go according to plan. India were favourites in the World Cup in
England in 2019. So, I'm saying there are so many things that I think they want to put an end to.
And of course, Sunday will really be, I think, the way that they will sound the trumpet as
on what they will want to be their victory charge and the first T20 cup.
Now this is going off on a slight tangent, but I actually just want to highlight an interview
that I noticed during the week - it caught my eye - with all-rounder Hardik Pandya. He was
speaking about money. He says, "When a guy from a village or a small town gets a big contract,
"he doesn't keep it for himself. He's looking after his parents. He's looking after his relatives.
"Money makes the difference. And it gives motivation as well," he says. Money does make
the world go round, doesn't it? Are we shy about talking about it? Clearly, it does impact
cricketing decisions that players are making: franchise versus country? This has been something
which has been bubbling away and not necessarily been in the background for a number of years.
That's a big thing about money. It brings freedom so you don't have to
worry about any of these issues around where you're going to live, how you're going to
pay for what you put on your back or in your mouth and so on. It's probably true to say, and most of
the cricketers who get established certainly in Australia have come from backgrounds where
there isn't a problem. They don't come from very poor backgrounds.
They probably wouldn't have ever played cricket had they come from poor backgrounds. I'm not sure
in Sunil's situation, how many people from the desperately poor backgrounds - and there'll
be plenty of them in India - managed to rise to any kind of fame and reward in cricket.
I think these socio-economic situations are probably a bit different in India to Australia.
Yeah, absolutely. And I was going to say exactly the same thing. I think money is
absolutely critical especially in the Indian context. There are so many cricketers;
Hardik Pandya himself. Do you remember T. Natarajan, who played in the fourth Test match in Australia?
His mother used to cook for people in a tin shack. I mean, it is as bad as that. So, I think that money
is absolutely critical, and I think the IPL has played a huge role in emancipating these youngsters,
because otherwise they wouldn't really have had, as Jim said, freedom. Who wants to be under the
yoke all the time, poverty or living, you know, about, where my where my next meal is coming
from or things like that. In terms of the Indian society, parents are extremely important. I mean,
by and large people live with their parents, the parents live with their children. Therefore,
it is the duty of the youngsters when they grow up and stuff and to take care of their parents.
So, I think what Hardik Pandya said is absolutely right. The question is,
you know, at what level should it be pegged? I mean, sometimes when you get something too early,
too much too early, we've seen people burn out because they get the money. They don't know how to
handle it and I think that's got to be something that people need to think about. And certainly
other sports suffer. And cricket is giving out so much money. That is the other thing in India,
perhaps it's not in England, certainly with the EPL and other sports in Australia,
because so much other sport is going on. But in India, other sports suffer, and
I think that's another thing that we need to keep in mind in the Indian situation.
A well-known 1994 chocolate brand advert in India which became iconic.
Why are we featuring on Stumped? Well, the advert featured a woman sitting on
the side-lines of a cricket match, watching her male friend score a winning boundary and
then running onto the field and dancing with delight. The actors became famous,
and the music became absolutely iconic in India. Fast forward to 2021, and the advert has been
reimagined by swapping the gender roles and ending with a powerful message of
#GoodLuckGirls as a tribute to women athletes. Now Chennai-based educator, swimmer, and actor
Kavya Ramachandran plays the female cricketer in the 2021 version, and she is with us now.
Kavya, it's great to have you on. How did it feel to take on that role as cricketer in the advert?
I think there's a lot more emotions post when the advert came out. I felt it a lot more then,
as opposed to when I was shooting for it because I did not realise the impact that the
ad in 1994 created because that was the year I was born.
I vaguely remember the jingle, but I had no idea the stir that the ad had created back then.
Right now, I just feel super grateful that I could play a small part on a production like this.
I've very broadly described the advert. Describe it in more detail and how it plays out.
So, I'm sure you've all seen the original; it's a super cute dance number that Simona does,
and which is unmatched. I thought it was really refreshing when they asked me to send the audition.
I thought was really refreshing, the gender swap, because sport is something that's super
close to my heart and women getting cheered on in the field of sport is even closer. The fact that
I got to play the cricketer was the biggest highlight in my life. [There are] so many
emotions going through right now this very instant I'm talking to you. What do I say?
I realised the impact of the ad only when I went on set because everyone was saying
"Kavya, you know we're not trying to recreate the same thing. You can't do that because that's a classic."
It's treated as an ode to honour the classic, and I thought that was important because the
pleasure to recreate something that was as big as that would have been too much if we are trying to
one-up it, because that was never the intention.
Were you a cricket fan? Are you cricket fan? And the other vital question is,
how many takes did it take for the hook shot be perfected?
My feeling towards cricket is very neutral. I come from a family who are crazy about cricket.
My mum and dad always support two different teams, so there's always an argument at home.
I watch it with them, but I'm not a crazy cricket fan.
The next part of the question was, how many takes? Very many takes!
I think there was only one shot that I got right, and that's the one that they have.
And do you yourself, Kavya, can you sort of feel quite strongly about challenging gender norms,
those sort of traditional male/female roles in society and in Indian society in particular?
Of course, I feel very strongly because I do come from a sports background. I'm a swimmer myself.
Not my immediate family, but there are a lot of people who aren't very supportive of
girls pursuing sports. When I used to swim competitively, there used to be a lot of people
who would come up to my parents and say why are you sending her for sport? She's going to become
masculine and manly, which is unnecessary because they don't see what goes behind it,
or the accolades that come with it, or the struggle that comes with it.
Especially because of that experience in my life, I do feel very, very strongly about gender norms and
breaking the stereotype. Yeah, so to answer your question, yes, it's very, very strong. Yes.
Thank you so much Kavya for sharing your side of the story with us on Stumped.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, that is it for this week's Stumped here on All India Radio. Don't forget you can follow us on
Twitter, we're @BBCWSSport and make sure you use #BBCStumped. My thanks to Sunil Gupta and
Jim Maxwell, and of course to you all for listening. We'll speak again next week. Until then, bye bye.