So, we're going to talk about the world of Northern Lights and this is exciting
because it means we actually get to move beyond Northern Lights into the
second two books as well. And we're saying world but actually its worlds, plural
You get that hint at the end of what's coming but I don't think
you can really anticipate the worlds that are going to open up
I think it's Kaisa, Serafina's daemon who first introduces Lyra
to the idea when he stretches his wings he's touching 10 million other worlds,
I just remember getting a tingle and of course when you're reading the
first book for the first time you have no idea what what's to come - 'Ooh, I want to
go and explore these,' and you have no idea what's gonna go down in the second book
And you get the idea of, obviously right at the very
beginning Lord Asriel introduces the this idea of the, quite complex idea I think
about the idea of these particles of Dust
and he has that photographs of all the Dust gathering around a child
which I just thought was the most amazing idea, the idea that the world
could be sort of shaped by yourself and the fact that you have a
place in the world that it's recognized beyond just yourself, somehow, if that makes sense.
Yes, and instantly the mystery that sits at the heart of the book is there
and you don't even know it at that point and as you say it sort of gets revealed
towards the end of the book that dust is going to become sort of crucial
to everything and it's this huge hinge and it's sort of the growth
of the importance of the Dust alongside the growth of the importance of Lyra,
you're just like, 'What is it about Lyra and Dust?!'
You just can't wait to know
Absolutely and I think the fact that it sets up in the first book
the kind of fractions of the societies and the different authorities
and Authority just becomes increasingly important as you go through the series
So we have to talk about what I think is probably
the most supposedly controversial aspect of the books I don't think it is,
which is how he introduces religion and
the Authority which I just thought was just another form of authority that the
book sets up authority against other people who are working in different ways
outside of very rigid structures I don't know how you felt about it...
Well, reading as a 10 year old you don't pick up these things
perhaps in the same way that you do as an adult when I've come back and reread it
and obviously there's no denying that aspect of Pullman's writing:
The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ and so on, he's made it very clear
that that's sort of an intentional comment and so obviously you
have to respect that as a reader. I personally am not religious but I'm not
anti religious either and I didn't find it offensive or controversial but I'm
aware other people may, but I actually think that you take it as a good story
and that's what it is at the end of the day you know he's not written and essay
he's written an incredible work of fiction and all stories are written
up around an underdog facing up to some sort of dominating power and
Pullman just takes that to its extreme and sort of has it against the
overarching structure of society but yeah as you say I didn't find it
controversial and haven't on any of my rereading.
I mean I think it pushes the book into different territories and it goes into the second and third book
and it turns it into the epic that I think it it becomes.
I think in order for it to be as epic as it needs to be the force has to be
something that is huge - Universal - Exactly - Multi-Universal!
And we're talking about world but in fact it's worlds, plural, I mean I found the
world that they step into in the 2nd book which has all of those
Italian elements and I never know how you say it
Sittagaze, Chittagaze, however you say it. - I mean I can read it!
And the Tower of the Angels and I loved that whole set up
Absolutely terrifying. And I think he's very good at terrifying things actually
I found the Subtle Knife deeply disturbing in so many ways, you know,
when they come across the children, I found it really difficult reading
and it's possibly my favorite of the three books just because it does cross
into this territory that I'd never thought it would take us into and
that I'd never encountered a concept like the Subtle Knife before
as a way to make portals. That's not something that I'd
ever encountered in my reading life before and so there may have been things that
come before but to me that is like the ultimate device I just think it's so clever.
And I think he imbues these objects, a bit like Iorek's armour,
the physical objects in his world become so powerful and emblematic.
The knife itself I think is such a frightening thing I mean it's a hugely
powerful and quite an alluring object in that it literally opens doors
but that awful scene with the, when Will has - and the bleeding...
I'd forgotten until I went back to the second book just how that, the fact that it
just refuses to heal and refuses to heal, that it just is relentless and you feel
yourself getting drained as he gets drained.
Completely I think that's such a
nice way of putting it but just he Pullman just never pulls away you know
never pulls the camera away if you're a very visual reader which I am yeah and
you know you are just constantly and there's being after a specific day and
he doesn't kind of give the character the rest me doesn't give you as a reader
and an arrest and I think that's why you become so close to the characters and so
involved because you're you're being drained alongside them
because there is this kind of relentless aspect I think we have a wonderful word
for for the subtle life especially unkind of the urgency which is so hard
to achieve in a second book which in so many ways as seen as a bridge book in
many series but it really is its own its own thing so entirely I'm managing to
make its only I thought eyes are interesting t really felt the same to
make your own world feel strange to you because you come at it knowing that on
Lyra's point of view yeah and v you do start to see it as an outsider and i
think is that's an extraordinary gift for a reader to be able to see your own
world from that perspective yeah again and and the fact that you you start to
see characters behaving differently in different worlds and that sense of
people's personalities and he's very good at people's personalities not being
fixed i think yeah that you can change and move especially as a child yes yeah
actually i'm not emo did buy the diamond yeah although and i do and i think it
was it was fantastic that i had i i did have these actually i think because they
had that sense of not wanting the demon said I loved that the demons shifted and
so like I was quite other way in the said it had to happen I was kind of
having the demon had to had a fix that's just growing after there's always
add yeah and it's a very good symbol I think said that for that poser yeah and
the way people come to tuck in their ways
yes which in many ways is what Lyra reticular is constantly pushing again
yeah how she as she gets older is is the idea that she has to kind of be one
thing and that was I love the conceit that they can't tell her she's the
chosen with her ignorance that has to guide yeah that she has to be free to
make mistake and I found that that really compelling but it really resists
being kind of this this emblem which is what she is
yeah yeah yeah she's very she's very much her own always her own person yeah
and often you think she could have come to a decision earlier but she has to get
there on her own in there think that Baroness almost quite a lot actually
that you you were aware that you think no you've got to get they get there cuz
yeah or they're already up yeah welcome under energy just literally move yeah
yeah well so yeah together I'm making and just that I mean she so many of the
characters make wrong decisions and I think he's he's very good at knots
I'm not letting people pour was you say pull back from the impact of those
decisions as well nothing to live an obviously that's fair at the end of the
first book and live--i carries that that burden right
right the way through I think because they're of the impact of what of her
decision at the you know it's an incredibly heavy thing yeah to bear was
the complication and the casualty of actually you know making decisions and
that that is bigger than you make every decision is and I remember reading that
as a ten-year-old and and it it resonated that for things that did
resonate back then that I could get at that young age from the book that you
know your your decisions impact others yeah it's just hard to remember
especially as a child yes yeah I'm very much and and to go back to dust just
thinking about those the books that are coming and which I still think is it
just as other concept it's such a strange and wonderful idea and and it I
still don't think now I completely understand it but I feel I think he it
seems to me that that's okay that there is that there actually the mystery of
these things as part of their they appeal of the books that definitely
don't have to have everything and no find I'm in terms of looking ahead to
the to the to what's coming next do you have any is anything that you
would particularly like to see and then next I think I just really want an
opportunity to just step back into to his his world and to understand more
about where these this story that I've sort of growing up with and love so much
came from and I'm just so glad that he's actually decided to take the risk to go
back because it's a huge gamble to go back
such much-loved brooken and not just attack something on the end but actually
be like no I'm going to give you a whole basis a whole new year cartography for
this for this world and a new character the new ways into it I think that's
incredibly bold and I've no doubt that he can pull it off yeah I think if
there's because I think when I read in Alden might so I don't think I could
have ever anticipated that where the the trilogy would would end up I certainly
didn't anticipate the scope and and the fact that it would open up and you'd see
and you know other worlds and underworld but completely yes I am so I think if
there's any author trust can take me back director fill it full so there was
a bit sad that we were going to see more of the after yeah with that ending but
but no as you say he doesn't give us he doesn't give us happy ending so that he
gives us sort of life going on yes what yes and there is always that
the he trusts in his characters I think he he imagined his readers yes not
patronizing I mean I didn't have in this when I was reading its general I didn't
feel like this is not for me I don't read it now at 27 and think this is not
for me I really feel like he he worked from so many levels it's a testament to
good storytelling and and to the sort of storytelling that feels essential to me
they're kind of mythological storytelling that feels somehow a
baseline of how we tell stories that it it can be read in that way by by anybody
and that you can go back to it and in fact get them we were saying earlier
that we've got books that you want to convert it yeah and you so you can come
back to these again again and I would agree and not even just from the
beginning yeah I saw this sometimes just read a few paid yes sort of oh yeah
that's how you write yeah well thank you so much and I'm yeah and what we're
looking forward to the next one remember we can I get back together and talk
about the next film on it when it comes out woodland yeah thank you very much
thank you