hello from the Financial Times in London
I'm Lesley hook and this is the news in
focus podcast where we offer our
insights into the stories that matter
for the first time we'll also be
recording this for video on our YouTube
channel so welcome today we're here to
discuss microbial food which is a word
that some of you may not be familiar
with I hadn't come across it before an
extremal file is a microbe that can
survive in extreme conditions and one
startup in Chicago has found a way of
turning these microscopic creatures into
an edible protein part of a growing
trend towards a microbial revolution in
food and agriculture could microbes hold
the key to feeding a growing population
here with me in the studio to discuss
this is Emma Cote Arizona commodities
correspondent and clive Cookson science
editor thanks for joining today amiko to
start with tell us a bit about this
company and what it is trying to do so
sustainable bioproducts is a start-up in
the US and it's turning a microbe that
it is it discovered in Yellowstone
National Park in to protein so they are
going to use precision fermentation and
they are going to turn this protein into
alternative dairy and meat products like
burgers and microbial based cheese Wow
has a garnet garden much interest from
investors say overall the search for
alternative proteins is such a hot topic
in food and agriculture these days and
it comes as you know increasing incomes
in developing countries and when
populations become more rich they move
from carbohydrates to prestige products
ie
meat but people can't you know continue
eating meat because of the environmental
and there's also health concerns as well
so I think we've had the plant-based
meat products like impossible burger and
Beyond meat
and the search is on for alternative
sources of protein among entrepreneurs
and scientists and so yes investors are
very interested sustainable bioproducts
is raised thirty three million early
this year from companies including
Francis de nonne and Archer Daniels
Midland Midland which is a agricultural
trader so they've got some really
serious money behind them but what does
what do these products actually taste
like have you tried any yourself so um
when you talk about proteins you'll have
the protein which is a source of the
product ie the vehicle for the taste so
I think the idea there is to reduce the
the taste of the original whatever
you're using its source itself like pre
protein which is used in beyond meat you
don't want it to taste like Peas yeah so
you want the the protein to be pure as
possible with microbes I have not tasted
well it's actually not on the market so
I have not tasted volcanic microbial and
burgers but the other use use of
proteins is as a food ingredient to
enhance the taste of a certain product
or change the way the product tastes so
Princess impossible foods uses a protein
called heme which is made from soy and
that is used with that is made from
precision fermentation and it's it adds
the meaty taste to the burger Wow
so how optimistic are you I mean is this
is this like a pie in the sky or do you
think this is genuinely changing the way
that we are going to source proteins in
our food um well I don't think it's
pie-in-the-sky at all because um you
already have corn for instance and that
is me we're not not cor that exactly
qu u o RN yeah and that is made from my
co protein which is a sort of fungus
and that's been around forever live you
know better than me were I think corn
dates back to the 1980s and it's a good
thing to think of anyone who's had corn
it is as you said a vehicle the taste
corn is grown out of single-celled
fungus which you can define as microbe I
mean the definition of microbe is
somewhat stretchy ice think of it as any
organism that you can't see with the
naked eye as the individual cells and
you have to look down a microscope to
identify them that's so interesting I
mean microbes seem to be having a bit of
a moment recently and and why have they
sort of come into the spotlight now I
guess spotlight might be the wrong word
maybe under the telescope yes the
microscope and what's the what's the
wider scientific picture here well when
it comes to food one of the most
important changes of the 21st century in
in nutrition and even I would say and in
medicine is understanding that the
billions of microbes the bacteria that
live in our guts play a gigantic role in
our health not just our how we digest
food though that's their most important
thing but even our well being
psychologically the microbes within our
body are vital and therefore there's a
big and growing industry to try and
produce microbes not so much as food but
to populate our guts with friendly
bacteria so that's that's a very big
growth area another is that the microbes
used to ferment foods are being extended
a lot everything from kimchi to
sauerkraut to the moulds on our cheese's
to beer and wine
they depend on microbes one sort or
another
and so using microbes to produce protein
I mean could this be scaled up used
worldwide I mean are there inhibiting
factors well I think we have to remember
that like all new foods microbial foods
don't grow on thin air they will need a
lot of input of water nutrients etc so
from the environmental point of view
they're not going to be completely
benign now they're probably going to be
more favorable more sustainable and then
growing a cow which spends a lot of its
energy wandering around fields and
belching and burping and emitting
methane which is a very powerful
greenhouse gas but I think those
environmental questions need to be
answered and they hadn't yet been
answered by the sort of new foods
companies that are making not only
microbial foods like amigo was talking
about earlier but also cell-based meat
and fish products were rather than
growing a cow or catching a fish you'll
grow the proteins and the muscle and the
fibers hopefully trying to capture the
texture and taste in the lab mmm and
where does this fit into this other
types of new food technologies other
types of agricultural breakthroughs I
mean where do microbials fit in I think
they're going to be seen alongside these
other cell based foods a lot of progress
is being made in taking for example stem
cells from cows or cattle and getting
them to develop into essentially into
meat and if you combine that with 3d
printing you can get something that's a
good a good texture I mean that's one
possibility but amico might have some
ideas of how they fit into the overall
of food industry well my understanding
is that so this microbials and firm
will boost cell-based or lab based meat
but I guess this whole microbial fungus
bacterial activity I mean how how will
consumers really react to it I mean is
there a factor you mean yeah I mean do
you really want to eat a microbial
burger well a lot of panic burger I
don't know well I don't know a lot of
people object to meet not only on its
environmental health grounds because
it's cruel to animals and I don't think
cruelty to microbes is going to enter
the picture but I think I mean remains
to be seen I'd be very interested to see
sustainable but by a product CEO has
told me that he wants to get a product
out into the market either on a trial
basis or just onto the shelves at least
in about 18 months in the US so it'll be
interesting to see what sort of the
marketing strategy he takes to find next
winter Christmas 2020 we could be having
microbial some something on the shelf in
a test market I think probably not in
London as a final question I wanted to
ask you both do you think there's an
argument that time and money would be
better spent encouraging food and
agricultural practices that are more
sustainable rather than creating new
products that sort of enable everyone to
keep consuming in the same way I think
that's a really interesting question um
but I I suspect that the horses kind of
left the stable their consumers want
convenient food that they crave and also
you know the new newly rich developing
country population they also want that
as well they expect that and on the
other hand food companies and and fast
food companies you know want to sell
that so can we continue killing cows and
pigs and destroying the environment I
think an important thing as in so many
areas of life is to have diversity I
think from a sustainable
in health point of view giving consumers
as rich and diverse a mixture of foods
as possible whether they come from cells
in labs or animals or plants in fields I
think I think that's going to be good
yeah well thank you both um so much
thanks Clive and amico and thanks for
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