You vowed that you would never visit Germany, the country responsible for the murder of 6
million Jews. But you are, in fact, going to Berlin with a special exhibition from the
museum here at Yad Vashem. What changed your mind? You know, I made the decision at a very young age
not to visit Germany. But it has nothing to do with hate or something like that. On the
contrary, it's everything about memory. You know, there is an interesting Jewish
tradition. Not many Jews do it these days, but it still exists. There are
Jews that keep a small part of a wall in their apartment, in their home, not painted. Why?
In order to remember the destruction of Jerusalem 2,000 years ago, every time they see it,
they remember that Jerusalem was destroyed 2,000 years ago. Then, the temple was destroyed.
That's the reason I did it. It's my stain on the wall. When I look at the map of the places
I've visited, I see a white stain on the map of Europe. It's Germany. And I remember why I
don't visit Germany. It's to give my respect to the 6 million Jews that were murdered.
But the same reason that prevented me from visiting Germany until this day is the reason
that brings me to Germany now as chairman of Yad Vashem. Because as chairman of Yad Vashem,
by visiting Germany, I have the ability to amplify remembrance of the Shoah, to amplify the
respect that is paid to the victims, not only on a personal basis, but also on a much larger basis,
because it will be reported and seen and the exhibition will be seen by many persons. So
it's basically the same decision, the circumstances change, not my decision.
Let's talk a little bit about where we are today. Yad Vashem, it's marking its 70th year. How has
it developed in these seven decades as the world's foremost memorial to the victims of the Holocaust?
It has developed completely. First of all, the fact that Yad Vashem was established by
Knesset legislation in 1953, but actually the gathering of archival documentation started
even before. It started in the late forties, even before the establishment of the State of
Israel. But I think that what started as an archive and a bunch of monuments developed
into a multifaceted institution that is, as you said, the most prominent, the most important
Holocaust remembrance institution in the world. Some of the artifacts that we have here - if
you are a human being they will bring you to tears immediately the moment you see them.
The largest library and art collection. Art collection, the art that was produced during
the Holocaust or immediately afterward, which is something quite mind-boggling.
It is a remarkable archive that you've managed to collect over these years. But sadly,
as the years roll on, we know that many survivors are dying, they will continue
to die. And one day there will be, of course, no living survivors of the Holocaust left. When
there are no survivors how will that affect, do you think, the memory of the Shoah and
what's the best way to keep that memory alive? It will be very challenging. It's clear that our
work will be much more difficult, but it also will be much more important. Because when that happens,
I am convinced that will be the happy hour of the denialists and the distortionists that exist
also today, but then they will thrive. And that's one of the reasons we are in
a race against the clock, against the calendar. Now I'd like to talk about your appointment. You
took the reins in 2021, something you've called the greatest honor of your life.
You were perhaps a surprising candidate for the Yad Vashem chairmanship. You were
previously a representative for the settler movement. You also worked as a diplomat
representing Israel in New York. At the time of your appointment, there was a bit of debate. It
was quite a lot of debate around whether or not that would politicise the role of chairman of
Yad Vashem. You vowed at the time to maintain a firewall between yourself and the memorial and
politics. Have you managed to do that? Yes, the moment I was appointed by the
government of Israel as chairman of Yad Vashem, I put a firewall between me and politics. And look,
this mission I took upon myself is sacred, and I will never stain it
with political interests or considerations. I will tell you a story. On my first day in
Yad Vashem, I was taken to the Museum of Art. And there is a quote in a wall that is in Hebrew and
in English, but originally it was written in Yiddish, a painter, Gela Seksztajn that
continued to make art in the Warsaw Ghetto 1941. And she hid her art in there and that
was recovered after the war. But also her last will and testament were recovered.
And the quote is from that will. And she says: "I know I am doomed. I will not survive." Indeed,
she didn't. "But I bequeath my works of art to the Jewish institution that will be
established after the war." When I saw that quote, I almost fainted. I understood that
she's talking to me. I am now the executor of that will. And not only Gela Seksztajn's will,
but 6 million wills and testaments. And therefore, it's my obligation to do it
in the most objective and clear way I can. We're seeing a rise in antisemitism around the
world. It's something you've spoken about at great length. In what ways do you see that playing out?
Well, a personal story. I arrived to New York in August 2016 to serve as Israel's consul general
there, convinced that antisemitism will be in a low place on my agenda. But in my time
in New York, in the United States, 15 Jews were murdered — not just attacked, but murdered — in
antisemitic attacks. So antisemitism, unfortunately, is thriving again in the world.
And you know what I tell world leaders that come to Yad Vashem — especially the world
leaders – is when you see antisemitism, act immediately, don't wait. If you wait,
antisemitism will metastasize into monstrous dimensions and it will be impossible to stop it.
You actually touched on it before. And I think I do think it's an important point, though,
the distance between the Holocaust and today. Do you think that there is a correlation between the
resurgence of antisemitism? You just mentioned that perhaps once the last survivors die out,
we might see even a further resurgence of it. Is there a correlation, do you believe, between
the events of the Holocaust and antisemitism? Yes and No. Antisemitism is antisemitism is
antisemitism. But we are not in Germany of the 1930s, no. We are not, we are far from it. We
should not get close to that. God forbid. But you know the difference between our
generation — the contemporary generation, Jewish and non-Jewish — and the generation of the 1930s,
Jewish and non-Jewish is that we have experience. We know it can happen. Probably they had the
privilege to believe, the naivete to believe, that they can burn books and can burn synagogues,
but will never burn human beings. We don't have that privilege. We know that it can come to
burning human beings. So that's the difference. And that gives us an added responsibility on our
shoulders to combat antisemitism and racism, and xenophobia, not only antisemitism. But
antisemitism is empirically is the most lethal sort of racism. So we have to do it now.
What do you see as Yad Vashem's role in combating antisemitism?
Well, you know, the role of Yad Vashem is to remember and make remember the Shoah.
We are an organization. I think that 6 million Jews that were massacred in the Shoah are entitled
to an organization and institution that is solely dedicated to them, exclusively dedicated to them.
But the very essence of Shoah remembrance is a very powerful tool to combat antisemitism.
I will give you an example from the last weeks. There were two very prominent American celebrities
that made very troubling statements. One is Kanye West. He is clearly an antisemite. I wouldn't
bring Kanye West to Yad Vashem because it's a waste of time. Probably he would even enjoy Yad
Vashem because dead Jews are here displayed. Whoopi Goldberg, on the other hand, said that
the Shoah was not an issue about race. It was a clash, a conflict between two white groups,
which is nonsense. That's not antisemitic. That's ignorance. She simply doesn't know the facts that
the Nazis saw the Jewish people — right or wrong — as a race. And there was no conflict between
Jews and the Nazis. There was an onslaught of the Nazis against the Jews. So Whoopi Goldberg
on the other hand — instead of suspending her for two weeks like her network did — they should have
sent her to Yad Vashem. Because Whoopi Goldberg can be educated. Kanye West is a waste of time.
We do not try to educate the antisemites. We try to educate the decent people of
the world — who I believe are the vast majority — to stand against antisemitism.
As you prepare to make your first visit to Germany, what are your expectations
or perhaps your hopes and even fears? Well. Yes, I have personal inhibitions,
but that is a personal matter between me and myself. But, you know, in addition to opening
the exhibition in the Bundestag with the speaker of the Bundestag, the president of the Bundestag,
I will meet the entire German leadership, the president, the Kanzler, several ministers,
the head of the opposition. And we have to think together. I come to think together with them,
to consult with them and to give them yes — with all modesty — advice on how to continue to keep
the flame of Holocaust remembrance alight. You know, there is an academic discussion: Whether
the Shoah is unique or unprecedented. "Unique" means that it happened once and would not happen
again. "Unprecedented" means it didn't happen before, but it can happen again. So how do we keep
the Shoah unique? That we educate and we legislate and we enforce law in order to make sure that that
terrible event of the 20th century never happens again. Not to the Jewish people,
not to any other people, not perpetrated by Germany, and not by any other nation.