[Music]
hello and welcome to scishow talk show
the day on scishow or we talk to
interesting people about interesting
stuff and then talk to a bizarre animal
but first talking to a different bizarre
animal this is Brett Gardner of scishow
psyche and of nature League and and just
of Missoula Montana how are you I am
good seasons are a thing in Montana they
sure are and we didn't get that growing
up in Florida and so there's this really
neat energy that comes with some the
month of May or like October just the
changes so I'm actually I'm actually
good I like the fact that summer is
different than February yeah for example
you're here in parts to give us an
update on how the whole world is doing
you know I I was first sort of exposed
to this idea that like you know there
are mass extinction events and I knew
about that and then somebody was like
we're in the middle of one and we did it
and I'm like I am uncomfortable about
that sir rude let's let's say wine let's
back up i lot of my cards on the table
here thank you
there is a decrease in biodiversity
happening on the planet and we are
studying that and lots of people are but
recently a lot of the people got
together to talk about it it present
some ideas and findings and you know
about that I do not this is great once
you tell me about it lovely
so what's really neat about this and and
this is recent as of as of filming this
this is things that came out in May this
incredible thing exists and it's called
the unfortunately IP BES horrible to say
some PR guy really screwed that one up
is like the IP BES reported oh yeah they
really did make a port really did
and so the IPCC maybe sounds familiar
the Intergovernmental but the parent
climate change right but it's like hey
we're saying this is a threat to
humanity that this is a threat that
crosses the boundaries of a country that
crosses the boundaries of enough
geography all these things and we're
saying let's talk about what to do but
also gather the best available data and
go from there and make choices and plans
and actions from that so things like the
Paris agreement
information scientifically that's their
comes from something like the IPCC these
huge working groups so a little bit back
some biologists came together and
they're like cool great idea what if
hear me out can we have one of those but
for biodiversity and give it a bad name
and make it like way longer than IPCC
what is it IP BES no Intergovernmental
Panel on policy for batteries and
ecosystem services it's horrible that's
very very much what an ecosystem
ecologist would say so would couldn't it
just be like life panel yeah LP like
what why didn't they call me
anyway so we so we now have this IP BES
and again just think about this as a
global collaborative of scientists both
governmental non-governmental in
academia not academia and just people
who collect data analyze things and come
together and say not only here's the
sitch but what do we do about the sitch
right the interesting thing about
ecosystem services packed onto here the
word service and this is again like an
entire this is you and I just like going
on for an hour or some other time but I
really do think it's important to point
out the connotation and the ethics and
what underpins that word sure to say
that they're being serviced by something
is is very much so saying we're here and
this is here and I mean I think that if
you're gonna get a bunch of governments
and a bunch of capitalists cuz they all
are like to agree that we take something
seriously then you have to make a value
based capitalism based way it's the way
to bring people to the table yeah and I
understand that it's just not known as
the right guy comes in when you bring it
up you at least want to put it out there
and I like the idea of people coming to
the table because of the intrinsic
mmm-hmm value of I like the earth better
when these things exist yeah and maybe I
never see them maybe we never interact
whatever it's one piece but yes to bring
full countries I'm not naive right I
totally get it it's bringing people to
the table
so yes biodiversity and ecosystem
services how are they yes so not good so
on Masek
ish they the IP BES which again is like
through the UN release their executive
summary and they said guys here's what
we have been working for years hundreds
of scientists on this to say how are we
doing life on Earth and also the
services rendered by that life on Earth
and so they only put out like the
summary report the full report comes out
later in 2019 and is expected to be like
1500 pages which I will go through at
that time and we'll talk again that'll
be great and then in and the very end of
May they released a draft of six
chapters and these six chapters are
things like what is the state of they
say nature and if you go to their like
appendix nature is saying mainly
biodiversity and some other things what
is the state of that contribution to
humans and then what is the state of so
like nature itself the state of nature's
contributions but then the lovely thing
about this report is that they spend a
lot of time talking about the future
what to do
transformative change where do we go
from here and how to incorporate these
things so for this first again we only
have the executive kind of summary to go
on right now but there are a couple
things that made major headlines you may
have seen there are some lovely things
to wake up to on on May 6 which were 1
million species threatened with
extinction or everything is dying yeah I
didn't actually see that one the first
one I definitely
I'm sure someone that's right so there's
this 1 million species stat pulled out
and I think that while that is true as
far as threat threat
does not mean right now threat is has a
temporal a time component it's saying
here's a thing that could happen but
it's not gone yet yeah so I like to be
really careful with this language and
unfortunately the headlines come
reporting that aligns we're not not not
so nuanced I know about headlines you
know I write lines I understand what
you're doing you got this he goes yeah
but a tremendous amount of work and time
has gone into there's a lot of people
hours there's the the concerns being
laid out is this sort of giving us
better perspective than we had before
this report came out I think so but only
if we actually look at the the details
and not it's not knowing every statistic
but it's knowing this versus this how is
how much impact does this have versus
this thing more in terms of fool like
groups of species you know how is this
big group doing versus this one I think
those are what we made and and and the
way that it's been reported is just a
full here's the things so I do think we
actually know quite a bit more now for
example things about the idea of how we
are transforming the surface of this
planet we live on so the we being humans
like 40% of Landau's as agricultural or
urban the fact that only in the last few
years the human population crossed over
the halfway mark so now more than half
of all humans live in a urban area so
that kind of transformation one thing
that caught me is uh Fisheries actually
so I've been under the impression and
it's not incorrect it's just not
complete that agriculture is the the big
no-no but parts of these realities I
love Oreo cookies all various things
created through agriculture chapter 7 is
actually on Nabisco's Oreos yeah Wow
right it's a draft still keep in mind
later 19th but we'll measure it unpack
that right so so agriculture is is a
thing but it turns out that fisheries is
actually I think they stated something
like four times more of an impact
there's always impact on what right that
question matters again this is not full
report but just these like this versus
this that was new to me really I mean
it's it the ocean obviously is most of
the surface of granite it's also most of
the ecosystems on the planet it's not
like on land you have sort of a few
tiers where you can have ecosystems
happening like just below the surface
on the surface in canopies put in the
ocean it's like the top that it's just
like layers and layers and layers of
potential ecosystem yeah there's a lot
of livable space and oceans a lot more
than there is on the land totally we
extract a huge amount of just protein
you know he calories fractions and the
people and places that are consuming
these things in these ratios that is
actually also of huge importance so for
us living here so we are filming in
Missoula Montana right in the United
States perhaps you and I and the
majority of people where we live don't
have fish as their main proteins to live
yeah however millions hundreds of
millions of people around the world that
is life for them that is my child
surviving and having nutrition right and
so so it's also one of those like check
yourself right now what's it like where
you live versus the world yeah and I
like checking myself right which is why
I say that like Agriculture's of problem
fisheries are a problem but also like I
am pro agriculture agriculture today
there would be some some pretty big work
through some things we might need to
iron yeah yeah so are there action items
yes okay yes and this is and this is
what gives me hope in something like
this unfortunately this is not so sexy
to report on it's easier to report on
the things that are like look you know
thirty percent of corals sharks and
their relatives my poor maybe Sharkies
not looking good
the fact that yet the the jungle systems
all these things yeah the picture is not
good but to not then look at these two
of the six chapters are about laying out
plans and transformative change because
again a million species threatened
vegetation is not a million species
extinct right and so that's what excites
me because otherwise well it's just
terribly depressing what it is and and
so and as as you know like at I work
within the field of international
biodiversity conservation yeah it's a
very depressing daily existence if we
don't think about actionable items and
that's just true for life right we want
it we want to mean something and make
some difference like you and I have just
spoken about just before and passing
like humans are incredible not only in
the capacity to affect things but to
care about things like and that's a
beautiful thing so um your notes okay
you got your action items look
nonetheless there literally have it
to-do lists from the UN okay tell me
what
right see I stopped being salmon
well you can say so this is fun they've
done they've gotten very clever very
high and they've got some metaphors some
graphics it's all very confusing what
they've decided with this report is
they're talking about levers and then
leverage points so in the report they
have five main levers and they are
saying here are these things that
multiple actors so individual citizens
communities public sector or private
sector governments all these things can
work these levers but apply them at
leverage points right and the levers no
good if you don't have a fulcrum we need
a fulcrum engineering that's that's
physics is I learned that in Oh are we
proud he knows this Thank You fulcrum
none of no individual part of my body
gives you we need leverage points great
so you're the levers first one
incentives and capacity building I like
this I guess your talk about bringing
people to the table incentives so the
idea of maybe we have businesses like
not just write a check to be able to
wreck something maybe instead businesses
have a better incentive to to not build
on new land do these other things right
cross-sectoral cooperation and love that
yeah so different sectors have to talk
to one another sector I think they know
I think they need societally so perhaps
like both in disciplines so the idea of
like engineers speaking to economists
speaking to ecologists her but I was
Austin under the impression that it
meant also the public speaking to
government's speaking to like those I
think it's pretty broad again we'll get
new details as they come out these are
just like the fancy little bullet points
they've got pre-emptive action we're
really bad about thinking long term I
think that's just a thing for life on
earth like even though evolution is long
term like is very hard should be fair
we're better at than any other species
we're just doing you don't know all
right no idea what answer doing it look
it's true you do not know it's true I've
never talked to an answer right time in
hive in sighs I'm not
they're like no I'm Maps there Foom
there's a queen ant right now that's
like I know it and I'll find her yeah
and she'll be glorious yes
preemptive action it's hard but just the
idea of what we're doing right now then
applies lovely decision-making in
context of resilience and uncertainty
this I love for normal daily life how do
I make decisions when I have uncertainty
I think it's lovely to see the word
uncertainty within any kind of
scientific report because that makes me
feel like what people care about the
reality right probably what science is
yeah they give they get it they
understand that and but like with the
IPCC we've learned that like uncertainty
can sometimes open you up to criticism
from people you guys don't know anything
look at your answers yeah and but like
obviously with something as complicated
as this is going to totally and so this
idea of making decisions but knowing
that not only we can think about
decisions in terms of resilience but
also uncertainty and I just love that
and like you said like everyday life
pretty much all of these apply to
everything yeah and then the last one of
these levers which are then applied is
environmental law and implementation and
that's big and that's not something I do
or you do but I know that when I was
growing up I thought that was like maybe
a thing I would do I was like oh la I
can talk and argue things but if it's
something I care about like what are
mental things you know I didn't go that
way but i but I know it's important
my friends who do that in like you know
it there's two pieces of that there's
actually like there's passing laws
making me so that like we consider
externalities when we decide to do stuff
as a society as externalities
externalities is leverage point six oh
you and then and then also actually
arguing the law cuz like it's no it's no
use if you're not enforcing the law and
there's not like a body out there for
the Ford International to get very hard
it's very hard even even national like
you have to have someone who will come
in and actually bring the lawsuit
because oftentimes the government
doesn't have the the interest
or resources to actually enforce the
laws that they pass exactly and then
that makes them not not worth what their
job is
they must be implements yeah laws don't
do anything this means yeah right so so
those are the levers as laid out by the
UN's IP BES in this in this national
report and so levers right all right
let's talk fulcrum let's talk elbows are
you ready some weird lever it's all it's
the thing yeah yeah um the first one
embrace diverse really nice because this
idea of when you and I in our
challenging anyone anyone watching this
or just thinking about this if you just
ask yourself to think for a minute what
is the good life that's such a weird
thing to have in a its governmental
science support let's embrace diverse
visions of a good life good life yes
also great advice for just a you know I
think this is actually a self-help book
yeah is actually moving into like Barnes
and Noble like it's gonna really you
know no one's gonna buy all this horse
you can suit for the teenage soul and
chickens for the Anthropocene soul I
don't know will work on the title but
yeah yeah it's great yeah I mean so is
this idea of like is the good luck does
a good life have to be material money
big mansion lots of things or can the
good life be experiences and and
non-consumption right um they're diff
embracing that there is more than one
version of that and some are better than
others yeah that's cool that's cool
again to see the side of a report it's
awesome and then reduce total
consumption and waste that's just across
the board this is one of the most basic
things that we can all do just everyday
yeah just everyday but like we all are
right and it's just like checking in on
ourselves now what can I do that the
pressure from society is to sort of do
it one way and I think that there there
is because you know our retirements our
accounts are tied to the stock market
and because like we are all deeply
influenced by advertising which has been
very effective in our society right
consumerism feels like the thing to do
and also because like you know 50 years
ago like more and better were very close
together
yeah and for some people it for still
it's
like like you do like people do need to
consumer resources to have better lives
for some people that have stopped being
true totally and so that idea of diverse
visions of that yeah and then can then
consumption and waste just across the
board reduce although that will of
course depend on who you are where you
live for their situation unleash values
in action I love the verb unleash in in
the yeah and this is like this is my
huge thing that I always talk about
whenever we get into life on earth is
that guys it's values all the way down
like the choices on the way that we
think about things have been formed
since we were little interacting with
other species you know so just
unleashing them unleash my values is so
great self-help advice I'm telling you
the universe being hands down going to
be this is just it's fine
the fourth reduce inequalities now huge
though to think about the way that human
and equality in society can affect
non-human species that blows my mind and
is really nice to be reminded of so this
can be even things like like gender is
one of the main pieces of this chapter
so the idea of what what women are
what's available right in terms of like
education research that can change
things like the birth rate and like the
growth of population and and
inequalities in income inequalities and
opportunity when you have any qualities
within the society of a single species
humans that has a major impact on our
civil of earth
that's like humbling terrifying and also
okay that's a work to do yeah so reduce
inequalities practice justice and
inclusion in conservation
so hey again just in life can we make
sure that inclusion where justice are
involved when we talk about conserving
things yeah because like it's one thing
to say like Hank you shouldn't eat fish
anymore and I'm like okay I could
probably pull that off but if like fish
is the only way I get protein right on a
very just no way to apply broadly no
it's not exactly so this idea yeah that
leaves it and then here you go
internalize externalities and tell a
coupling x' tell the couplings tell a
meaning like far across and the
couplings I think within here it's kind
of specific in terms of like resources
and in business and so the idea of like
cross
continental and cross ocean like that
goods and treat but I mean it can mean
so much more like that word is an
interesting one
yeah but and internalizing externalities
is the biggest part of like actually
doing good environmental work because
like the costs of like mining or burning
lots of coal like we don't you don't put
that cost on the people who are doing
the work and they get the profit out of
you know doing the thing but the yeah
price it is not as it's like it's
cheaper for them to sell coal than it
should be totally cuz the rest of us are
gonna have to pay for that in some way
and you know this is you know in
environmental circles sometimes
discussed as a subsidy that like sure
you're going to have to like pay to
build a wall around Florida right and
that is in a way a subsidy for fossil
fuel companies yeah because like they're
not gonna have to pay for that but it
was you know ultimately if we had been
paying if there was like a tax on that
that was like you know climate change
mitigation tax then we would be you know
actually sort of like functional society
society would be paying the actual price
of fossil fuels and when those things
are not together one-to-one it's very
hard to track choices consequences and
what these things mean particularly when
money is involved in and it's also very
hard to actually define the value of an
externality like what's what is the
actual cost here which is why it's very
hard to do you know and also because
like we've never done it right you know
Oh PS this is brand-new yeah yeah like
never can never like tried to add on a
future cost on to the to a current yes
but like very worth doing and in kind of
the only way that you rate you can
actually create a price that accurately
reflects the cost of a you know action
yeah well exactly and so and so that I
mean this entire working group is saying
yeah that this is important and these
start being a thing right yeah second
class insure technology innovation and
investment yeah that's good yeah these
things that humans do really well like
let's keep doing them but within the
frames of these other things and
consequences that we've spoken up
then this last one is all that we will
love the things that we may hear
altogether promote education and
knowledge generation and sharing all
right right
I know else do that let's I mean I think
we're doing in this is very meta right
now yeah we do it can the you actually
some money I'll work on that I think
don't have a lot once they have their
self profit yeah now I will mention the
one thing about this knowledge
generation and sharing this includes
different knowledge systems so for the
first time a report of this size has
made a very large effort and included a
lot about indigenous peoples and local
cultures and as far as what they know
and have learned in their own natural
history and course of living in those
spaces what is best and the sharing of
that knowledge so it's not just here
these scientific articles published we
need to share it it is accepting that
there are multiple knowledge systems it
doesn't mean that every single one is
equal and everything is right there's
rights and wrongs inside of each the we
cells would be rational but we have to
keep in mind and however you're open to
grow your knowledge system there's also
something you can communicate with so
you come into like with another
knowledge system come in and you're like
here's here's reality right that's not
gonna get you very far no I recognize
the existence of other knowledge systems
yeah and Sam communicate especially with
local with local communities when you
have places of huge biodiversity that
are very very central in localize these
are people that potentially know more
about these species than like any other
scientific group you know but it's so
just this idea of it if this is
something you're interested in if you're
watching this and you're interested in
the idea of indigenous people and local
cultures and nature it's all throughout
the report and it's um it's really
lovely and fascinating very cool to see
it start detailed detailed out sounds
like quite a quite a report to put
together
I had fun in April yeah just read it
yeah just like just yeah just getting
prepped and then it came out in mana
like I was host like watching teaser
trailers and by that I mean paragraphs
published right yeah it's yeah users
there's a small fan community it's four
of us and we're like oh it's dropping
another one
oh boy yeah that's the one yep and they
may was busy even just reading it so I
mean good work humans like but there's
like a million work to still be done but
yes I believe in us
absolutely and well I mean I don't
believe in our ability to like never
have another extinction on the planet
but why is this fair but absolutely I
don't I I think that we can get out of
this without a million I think so too
let's do it and as part of that let's
meet with an actual non extinct
currently existing on the planet
organism despite the fact that I kind of
feel like it's from another planet
definitely from Earth but totally can it
be both this is kismet she's an African
crested porcupine and she is rattling
her hollow quills that are just in the
middle of her tail here you can if you
want and I have all the treats over here
it's on my earring here for you my
jewelry seems like she's very nice
macedon cool hi sweetie yeah she is she
was human oh so she was raised around
humans and so she knows humans are safe
and often come with food it's just new
locations that make her a little bit
nervous mm-hmm how do you clean up for Q
pine why when you clean it they smell
are you so are you talking about the
smells you like just like if you if you
need to dust them make it a little bit
um they like being covered in dust so
they will they will then just going they
even dust right after you're done you
don't want to tickle them religious so
she's called an African crested
porcupine she has the crest on her head
there and when she feels threatened
she'll take her a little tutu and she'll
just make it huge so she looks really
big and then she'll do that rattling
that you heard when she first came out
as a warning she'll also take her back
feet and stomp them on the ground and
all of those things are going to be
visual and audio warning
like say I you've messed up if you've
gotten this close to this animal and
then the warning colors as well so if
you are that close to an African crested
porcupine you're in danger of becoming
hit by their quills and and that when I
say hit I don't mean like they can't
shoot their quills right they're just
modified hair so they can't like shoot
them off any more than we can shoot our
hairs off but what they do is they use
them to defend their territory they're
young their resources and say a lion is
trying to get one of their babies
they're gonna all come together and they
live in these social groups where it's
mom and dad and then several ages of
babies and they all kind of come
together and protect their their baby
and so what I think is super cool about
these quills she can actually change the
direction that she points them so if you
were to like accidentally brush her
quills then she would take her skin and
kind of move it to one direction so I'm
so sticking behind her they would point
sideways and then she'd like move toward
you like daring you to so you come
closer
have you ever gotten a good quill um
I've got an accidental pokes so like she
was stuck in a certain space and then
she backed up and she hit my shins and
it hurts I mean none of them stuck in me
um good girl so she is considered an
old-world porcupine and older porcupines
are rodents related to new world
porcupines but they developed
differently they have a common ancestor
but they do not have barbs on the ends
of their quills so she has these guard
quills these guard hairs and they don't
actually have points on them right they
just have the really good color and then
yes and then these ones the second tier
are very thick and very sharp and then
there's the shorter ones that are about
three four inches long those ones are
really intense they're very short very
strong and that's really the the painful
ones the most dangerous ones and then
she has some really short ones that are
just basically like a warning colors
really short ones in the middle there
and then it's the hollow ones on her
tail so when she comes over here I see
if I get up here different you can oh
cool
quails they're white and they're right
on her tail and she'll just shake it
rattles I love saying something like
rattling across related you know just to
see it in a mammal in a reviling ways
that they do it I love it yeah it's so
cool it's a very very universal warning
sound yeah just that sound can play that
big of the role yes we're taking juicy
and that uh you know Mohawks also come
to evolve you know this teenage stage
this is not natural she's nice to go
thank you even has a couple died here it
was pink before the appearance today so
my mom made me die like it's incredible
most itself looks like Willy it is so as
I'm feeding her go ahead and reach under
there and just feel oh my god even your
normal hair look quilt it's really thick
coarse and she's very oily yeah it's
interesting so yeah they're all super
like I don't know um how would you
describe what's that texture like hey
yeah like yeah like straw yeah yeah but
then also also again very oily thick
greasy hey yeah but like thicker hay
stronger hey yeah so in a pretty face we
all met I mean a while ago and she was
she was still little how old how old is
she now how old is kids much she is just
over two years old and is that
full-grown for this species yes so she
she is full-grown the males get a little
bit bigger than this and they they live
about 15 to 20 years they're monogamous
in the wild so there are very social
species wow that's really kind of unique
for mammals
I didn't wrote it not know that yeah
yeah so one of my favorite things about
her is her feet she has very much like
Muppet feet and when she walks around it
almost looks like she's like stomping
them around totally I love sharing her
because she is such a she's kind of a
WoW animal yeah but they're also I mean
they just kind of do their own thing and
they don't really interfere with
anybody's business until they interfere
with them right one of the weirdest
things about these guys when we're
feeding her like lots of fur she's she's
eating pear and yam and apple and grapes
and she loves those but she was grabbed
my hand she's like the closer she will
also eat some pretty unusual things or
we might think they're unusual they're
not unusual for her she eats bugs and
she'll eat small vertebrates like my
serve or whatnot so she'll read a little
mouse around nest and birds and she will
also she needs a lot of calcium and so
to get the calcium she will take bones
from dead carcasses and she will hoard
them they build huge burrows really deep
buried deep long entrance burrows their
babies stay safe down there but they
take all these bones I'll just go grab
me store them down there and go grab
some more in store them down there and
they'll get these big bone collections
down there we make those teenage choices
go ahead with a dark crowd sorry the
Mohawk then you start it's all part of
adolescence yeah
the problem with that is humans will
then dig up these old burrows and find a
collections of bones and they're like
wait wait is this throw them off yeah
you got this got a bunch of weird
animals in there maybe what I like doing
collections like there are the original
museum curators like maybe they left a
new taxonomy comparisons like in free
time feel like you could it from a
porcupine I can go down a hall but I
certainly can't back out if one so they
do get stuck I do and then when she goes
like like if she were to try and crawl
back there it would be hard for you get
back and then she gets upset about it
and so then she'll start rattling I kind
of know like what shape you are under
the quilt it's like the profile gets
obscured by all of that
quills it's just a slope sounding she's
got a little tail oh yeah yeah yeah
I almost imagine like capybara kind of a
baby pea
yep but pokey yes with a tutu of quills
all over her have you seen the fall the
fall quill display
oh yeah
and that's just because their natural
instincts are any type of weird thing
that happens first thing you do is you
show off what weapons you have so if a
door you know wind blows a door close or
you know whatever it was a little bigger
when she um when she came out I think it
was like a noticeable difference man
she's not even figuring out yeah and
then she's come down yeah yeah she's
also a little bit like a lap porcupine
she will follow and crawl into my lap
and fall asleep yeah not not comfortable
at all for me when she does this but she
loves me she loves tactile she loves
being pet so once once food is kind of
out of the picture she like just gets
really a scratch so a good pet right oh
yeah every tumor yes she is even she can
chew through metal even so we have a
very very thick metal you throw in some
bones yeah she does she she's fun she
likes non on them she likes burying um
these are some antlers in their bones
antlers and then people donate beef
parts and the beef bones and then deer
legs yeah she's great she's like look at
me you know my gallery see I like the
idea of conservation for the sake of
like this is an awesome thing right and
she's providing these services besides
joy yeah so you know it's just a cool
example and pie Good Wife she cleans up
the bone but yeah here's a here is one
version of a goodbye a diversity
diversity yeah yeah enjoyment species on
this are just such that minor fee that
intrinsic just like look at this this is
incredible
yes is just incredible wonderful Thank
You Jessie if you wanna see more of what
Jessie does you have a youtube channel
youtube.com slash animal wonders Montana
taking care of hundreds of animals yeah
it's a lot of fun it's not it's a
different thing every day yeah I bet ah
Thank You Bret
humming me I feel informed step 1 yeah
if you want to see more Brit you can see
Brett at youtube.com slash major league
and also here on scishow at scishow
psych
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