>>> WHEN WE THINK ABOUT RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THIS 2016
ELECTION, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE
ACTIVE MEASURES AGAINST OUR
DEMOCRACY, WE’RE OFTEN TALKING
ABOUT BASICALLY THREE
COMPONENTS.
COMPONENTS. YOU CAN THINK OF THE FIRST AS
THE RUSSIAN HACKING, THE
DISSEMINATION OF THOSE STOLEN
CAMPAIGN E-MAILS.
CAMPAIGN E-MAILS. WE REMEMBER THAT.
NUMBER TWO, THE RUSSIAN ATTEMPTS
TO ACTUALLY HACK INTO STATE
ELECTION SYSTEMS.
ELECTION SYSTEMS. AND THEN THE THIRD IS WHAT WE
WERE ACTUALLY JUST TOUCHING ON.
THE INFLUENCE OPERATIONS TO
TARGET AMERICANS ON SOCIAL MEDIA
SITES TO DISRUPT OUR DISCUSSIONS
THAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE HAVING
WITH EACH OTHER.
BUT THEN THERE’S ANOTHER
MYSTERIOUS THING THAT ALSO WAS
HAPPENING IN 2016 THAT WE’RE
STILL LEARNING ABOUT AND HAD TO
DO WITH RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS INSIDE
THIS COUNTRY.
THIS COUNTRY. POLITICO REPORTING IT THIS WAY.
THIS WAS A STORY ACTUALLY FIRST
PUBLISHED IN THE SUMMER OF 2017.
THESE DIPLOMATS WIDELY ASSUMED
TO BE INTELLIGENCE OPERATIVES
WOULD EVENTUALLY TURN UP IN ODD
PLACES OFTEN IN MIDDLE OF
NOWHERE USA.
NOWHERE USA. ONE FOUND ON A BEACH.
ANOTHER TURNED UP WANDERING IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT.
BOTH SEEMED TO BE LINGERING
WHERE UNDERGROUND FIBER OPTIC
CABLES TEND TO RUN.
THEIR WHEREABOUTS LED
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS TO
CONCLUDE THE KREMLIN IS WAGING A
QUIET EFFORT TO MAP THE U.S.
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
TELECOMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE, PERHAPS
INFRASTRUCTURE, PERHAPS PREPARING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO
DISRUPT IT.
DISRUPT IT. NOBODY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT TO MAKE
OF THAT REPORT AT THAT TIME.
THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN KIND OF
DORMANT REALLY UNTIL THIS
SPRING.
SPRING. THAT IS WHEN THE U.S. OFFICIALLY
ACCUSED RUSSIA OF NOT ONLY THE
THINGS WE JUST MENTIONED, BUT
ALSO OF TARGETING POWER PLANTS,
WATER AND ELECTRICAL GRIDS
DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND ONGOING
DURING THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
NOW, THOSE RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS
WANDERING AROUND THE U.S. AND
SHOWING UP IN STRANGE PLACES,
THAT REMAINED A MYSTERY UNTIL
THIS WEEK, RESURFACING, AND THIS
IS SOMETHING, DURING A LITTLE
NOTICED EXCHANGE AT A SENATE
HEARING ON RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE.
VICTORIA NEWLAND, THE TOP
DIPLOMAT IN THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION, TESTIFYING
ADMINISTRATION, TESTIFYING BEFORE THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE.
COMMITTEE. SHE ASKED ABOUT THOSE WANDERING
RUSSIANS BY MAINE REPUBLICAN
SENATOR SUSAN COLLINS.
>> AMBASSADOR NEULAND, IN 2016
THE FBI WAS COMPLAINING TO THIS
COMMITTEE THAT RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS
IN THE UNITED STATES WERE NOT
FOLLOWING THE ESTABLISHED RULES
ABOUT TRAVEL AND THEY WERE NOT
NOTIFYING THE STATE DEPARTMENT,
AND IT SEEMED THAT THEY WERE
TRAVELING TO ODD LOCATIONS ON
SHORT NOTICE.
SHORT NOTICE. WERE YOU AWARE AT THE STATE
DEPARTMENT OF THE FBI’S
CONCERNS?
CONCERNS? >> YES, SENATOR.
WE HAD SIGNIFICANT CONVERSATIONS
WITH THE FBI ABOUT THEIR
CONCERNS AND TOOK SOME ACTIONS
AND PREPARED OTHERS AS EARLY AS
JULY AND AUGUST OF 2016 WITH
REGARD TO THEIR CONCERNS.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WAS --
THAT TRAVEL WAS RELATED TO THE
RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES AGAINST
OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM?
>> I DO.
>> I DO. >> I DO, UNDER OATH.
SO THOSE RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS
WANDERING IN THE DESERT, HERE
OBAMA’S TOP DIPLOMAT SAYING THEY
WERE PART OF THIS RUSSIAN ACTIVE
MEASURE EFFORT.
MEASURE EFFORT. WHAT WERE THEY TRYING TO DO?
DID ANY OF THIS WORK?
AND WILL WE EVER FIND OUT?
IT’S CLEARLY NOT OVER.
I AM JOINED BY MICHAEL McFAUL,
FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA
DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.
THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> SURE, ARI, THANKS FOR HAVING
ME.
ME. >> WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT MISS
NULAND IS CONFIRMING THIS NOW?
AND I GUESS I DON’T HAVE TO ASK
YOU WHETHER YOU AS A DIPLOMAT
DID THIS KIND OF THING WHEN YOU
WERE ABROAD.
WERE ABROAD. >> WELL, I THINK IT’S
SIGNIFICANT THAT SHE DID CONFIRM
IT, YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
ABOUT THAT.
ABOUT THAT. AND ONE SHOULDN’T REALLY BE
SURPRISED THAT RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS
ARE, YOU KNOW, INTERACTING IN
THIS WAY.
THIS WAY. HUMAN INTELLIGENCE AND SIGNALS
INTELLIGENCE INTERTWINE AND
SUPPORT EACH OTHER IN FOREIGN
OPERATIONS LIKE THE RUSSIANS
WERE DOING IN OUR COUNTRY.
THAT SHE SAID IT ON THE RECORD,
THOUGH, SURPRISED ME.
I’VE GOT TO TELL YOU HONESTLY.
>> BECAUSE WHY?
>> BECAUSE THIS IS USUALLY VERY
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. I KNOW ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT
I’M NOT GOING TO SAY TO YOU
RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHAT RUSSIANS
HAVE DONE IN THIS COUNTRY
BECAUSE IT’S USUALLY CLASSIFIED.
AND BY THE WAY, THAT’S ONE OF
THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH
GETTING AMERICANS TO BE MORE
CONCERNED ABOUT THESE THINGS IS
WE DON’T TALK ABOUT THEM IN THE
OPEN.
OPEN. >> AMBASSADOR, I KNOW THINGS
THAT I DON’T TALK ABOUT TO YOU,
THEY’RE JUST NOT AS IMPORTANT OR
CLASSIFIED AS ALL THE THINGS YOU
DON’T TELL US.
I MEAN WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE
WHO SAY, WELL, ARE WE JUST
SIGNED ONTO THE IDEA THAT WITH
HOSTILE COUNTRIES THAT WE HAVE
RELATIONS WITH, WHICH CAN BE A
GOOD THING, PEOPLE BELIEVE IN
DIPLOMACY, THAT SOME OF THOSE
PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO BE
SPIES?
SPIES? OR DOES THIS TRACK WITH
SOMETHING THAT YOU AND RACHEL
AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE DISCUSSED
AS WELL EARLIER, WHICH IS THAT
RUSSIA TOOK IT FARTHER, THEY
ALSO RESORTED TO PHYSICAL
VIOLENCE AGAINST SOME OF OUR
PEOPLE IN THEIR TERRITORY, THAT
THIS IS FAR BEYOND WHAT MIGHT BE
BAKED INTO THE NORMAL SYSTEM?
>> WELL, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW,
IT’S BEYOND NORMAL PROCEDURES.
IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, BOTH
INSIDE RUSSIA AGAINST DIPLOMATS,
INCLUDING PEOPLE LIKE ME WHEN I
WAS AMBASSADOR, BUT MORE
IMPORTANTLY TO ME WHAT THEY HAVE
DONE INSIDE OUR COUNTRY GOES
WELL BEYOND.
WELL BEYOND. I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
IT’S NOT STANDARD OPERATING
PROCEDURE.
PROCEDURE. THE HARD PART ABOUT SIGNCYBER
WEAPONS AND INTELLIGENCE WITH
RESPECT TO CYBER STUFF IS
DIFFERENT FROM NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
WHEN WE DISCOVERED SOVIET
NUCLEAR WEAPONS HERE AND THERE,
INCLUDING MOST SCARILY DURING
THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS, WE
COULD TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
ABOUT THE THREAT AND THEN TAKE
ACTIONS TO DETER IT.
WHAT’S HARD ABOUT THESE CYBER
ACTIVITIES IS YOU DON’T SEE IT,
YOU DON’T WITNESS IT, WE DON’T
WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE
DON’T WANT TO SCARE THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. IF YOU KNEW ALL THE THINGS I
DID, YOU WOULD BE MORE NERVOUS
ABOUT WHAT RUSSIA AND OTHER
COUNTRIES COULD DO TO OUR
INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THAT’S
WHAT’S HARD ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE
ANIMATED ENOUGH ABOUT THE THREAT
BUT WITHOUT GETTING US INTO SOME
SCARY THING THAT COULD UNDERMINE
THE STOCK MARKET, FOR INSTANCE,
IF PEOPLE KNEW ALL THE THINGS
THAT WERE HAPPENING OUT THERE ON
OUR NETWORKS.
OUR NETWORKS. >> SO ON A SERIOUS NOTE, I
APPRECIATE YOU GIVING US SOME
CONTEXT.
CONTEXT. ON A LIGHTER NOTE, I GUESS I’M
NOT INSIDE YOUR BRAIN, BECAUSE
IT WOULD BE EASIER TO GO TO
SLEEP ON THIS FRIDAY NIGHT.
AMBASSADOR MICHAEL McFAUL,
ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR TIME,
SIR.