- Hey everybody, today I am joined by Lindsey Stirling.
She is here to share her story,
but before we jump into that, just tell my audience
a little bit about what you do on your channel
and all the things you do.
- All the things. - So many.
- So many things, I'm a violinist and I make a lot of
I don't know, really interesting, unique music videos
to different styles of-- - Amazing costumes.
- I love costumes and I'm a recent dog mom.
- Luna's adorable. - Oh yeah, she's over there.
- And I also have a link to her book in the description too,
because some of the stuff that we'll talk about today
kind of ties back into that and it's a great read,
so you should definitely pick that up.
But the reason that I had you here today
is really to talk about your history
and recovery from an eating disorder.
Many of my viewers have struggled themselves
and that's actually how my channel really got started.
And in your book, it came out about two years ago, right?
Was that the first time that you talked about
your eating disorder recovery publicly,
or had you been talking about it?
I know you do motivational speaking, as well.
- I do, and you know, I actually, pretty early on
from when I started getting a following,
that was something important to me, was to share
that that is something I struggled with,
and I think the reason it's always been important to me
is because I wanted to give people just a little bit of hope
that possibly struggled with that,
because when I was in the midst of it,
I remember that feeling of just hopelessness
and wondering if I ever could get out of it,
and so I've always been very open about
that that is something that I struggled with in the past,
but it's in my past and I live a very rich, full life.
But also, I don't know if I could have lived the rich, full,
I couldn't have, actually, lived this rich, full life
if I was still entrenched in the midst of struggling
with an eating disorder, because it was so consuming.
- Totally. - Yeah.
- Yeah, because it starts out, like,
we were kinda talking about before we started filming,
it starts out with just little thoughts or little actions
and it kind of grows into something more.
In your book I found it interesting,
you said you don't feel any better or stronger
having gone through it, do you think that's still true today
or do you feel like it's?
- I, well, it definitely gave me empathy and understanding,
and I think a maturity that comes from it.
However, I don't wear it as a badge.
I don't ever want people to think I'm wearing it as a badge
of like, I had an eating disorder.
- (laughs) Totally.
- You know, 'cause it's not something to glorify,
it's not something to ever wish for.
- I agree. - But, definitely in some ways
it really gave me a deeper understanding of myself
and I think a better empathy for other people.
- Yeah, no, totally.
That makes sense, because it isn't something
that you'd want everybody to always think of you with,
like as who you are. - Right.
'Cause it's not, that's the thing,
that's one reason I've never loved
certain kinds of support groups where you start out
by saying I'm Lindsey and I have an eating disorder.
Because I think separating myself
from it was one of the most important things I ever did.
It's not, I'm Lindsey with an eating disorder,
it's I am Lindsey, and that is something else.
- Yeah, that was like,
'cause I think that that's so important,
I talk to my audience all the time about,
like, we call it in therapy externalization,
like giving it a name.
I know that in your book you talked about reading
Life Without Ed and it was so helpful
because a lot of people don't let you know
that you can call it something different,
you can give it a name.
In the book, I think you reference calling it the demon.
- Yes. - A lot.
- Right, well, and that was so helpful to me because,
as you said, it kind of grows slowly
and I started to see my life slowly change
so that I didn't even realize
something was kind of happening to me,
and the eating disorder became wound
throughout my whole personality,
so much so that it was hard to see that,
you know, I thought it was me that was broken.
And that book, Life Without Ed, made me realize
that it's not that I'm broken, it's that there is something,
you referred to it, almost like a virus.
There is something that has come
and infiltrated into my core
and I've got to get it out, I don't have to change myself.
Myself is fine, I just gotta get this thing
that's wound its way through me away.
- Yeah, totally, and I think that's like,
that's why I always talk about mental health
being treated the same as physical health,
because if you had pneumonia, people wouldn't be like,
oh, you should just snap out of that.
- Right. (laughs)
- Eat more, honey, and you'll feel better.
Why do people talk about it that way when it's like,
you know what, I've been infiltrated by something
and it's gonna take me a little while to get it outta there.
And speaking of your recovery process,
was there ever a key moment
where you realized it was a problem,
'cause you said it took time, it built,
you almost didn't know that it wasn't you?
- Yes, and I had slowly just kinda sunk into depression,
as a result of starving myself
and not giving myself the energy and the nutrients I needed,
and I didn't understand how I had become this way.
No energy, crying for no reasons all the time,
not wanting to get out of bed in the morning.
And I think the real realization hit one day
when my sister and I, we were best friends growing up,
we were roommates in college, always been super close,
and one day, I had heard her giggling with our roommates
and laughing about something,
and then she silently walked into our room
and sat on her bed and didn't say anything to me.
And all of a sudden I realized,
when was the last time that we laughed together,
when was the last time
that we had a meaningful conversation?
And I just realized, like, I don't know what happened,
but I don't even know her anymore.
And then I'm like, it was like this light bulb
finally clicked for me,
that I actually don't really have relationships with anyone.
And it was because I had been consumed fully,
mentally, physically, emotionally, by this thing
that had overcome myself
and it didn't leave room for anything else,
including my own personality.
I basically gave up everything
to feed this virus that had come into me.
- Yeah, 'cause it does, like we talked a little bit before,
about even being at dinner
or any kind of event involving food,
it's almost like you're not present
because you can't connect with someone,
we can't have a conversation
because all you can think about is the calculations,
and the this, and the that,
and how am I gonna get this to happen,
and it's overwhelming. - And so many events
are centered around food,
we're a very food-oriented culture
and I just, you know, remember my friends inviting me
to go out to dinner and I'd just be like,
well, where are we going?
- I need to prepare. - What could I,
what could I possibly get,
or do I have time to run afterwards?
- There's always a plan. - Like your plan
for Thanksgiving, I remember reading
that when you went to therapy and you were like,
plan, I don't have a plan.
And she was like, well, what are you gonna do before and at,
and what are you gonna eat and avoid?
- Right. - And you had a plan.
- I was like wow, I didn't even realize it,
but I've spent a lot of energy developing a plan.
- Totally.
- And that is a full time job.
- Yes.
- I think it was that realization that made me think,
something's wrong, I wasn't quite sure what it was,
but it made it worth fixing, 'cause I realized,
I thrive on, everybody thrives on relationships.
- Totally.
- And connection. - Connection with others
in general, totally.
- And if that's what I have to, if I've lost that,
I need to backtrack and figure out where I lost it and why.
- Yeah, and so I know that you talked about group being the,
wasn't the first step?
- Yes. - What got you there?
'Cause I hear from a lot of you that you're like, hell no.
- Oh man. - Group is super scary.
- It was scary and actually it was my mom really,
my mom, she was the only person that I let into the problem
and then I said,
hey mom. - I'm glad you could.
- Yeah, and partially it was my mom
that kinda helped me figure out that I had a problem,
luckily I have a very close relationship with my family.
She was the one that I told,
and honestly, she ended up being my best therapist.
She didn't always know what to say, or how to say it,
but I kinda helped her through the process of saying,
mom, when you say that, it makes me feel like this.
- Oh that's really good though.
That's like what I teach in therapy so much,
is just saying, when this happens,
that's how I feel as a result.
I always teach parents, I'm like, don't say you look good
because they're gonna take that and think I look fat.
- I said those exact words to my mom one time
and she was like, Lindsey you look good,
and I was like, don't say that,
that makes me know that I've gained weight.
- My eating disorder just takes that.
- Yeah, I freak out.
But my mom had encouraged me to go and there was,
so I went to the counseling center at BYU, again,
a terrifying step to take. - But I'm glad they have it,
'cause not all universities have them.
- That's true. - So I'm really glad.
- And they didn't have, and I remember, it was actually them
that told me about the group therapy,
'cause I was like, I hear there's free counseling,
and they were like,
well we don't have anyone for eating disorders,
you know, specifically,
but there's this very intimate group that meets,
you know, it was like a secret grop
and we met in a room where nobody would know
why we were meeting there
and I remember being so nervous
when I walked into that group
just thinking this was a mistake, why did I come here,
and seeing all these other girls as I walked in
that visibly felt the same way,
this was a mistake, why am I here,
I don't really wanna talk to anybody,
but I could see that in all the other girls
and, you know, and we got paired with a mentor
and it turned out to be the most helpful thing
in my recovery, now I went to individual therapy,
I read books, I did a lot of self help stuff,
but probably the most powerful thing to me
was sitting in that room and talking with girls
and listening to them articulate the same,
like very, very similar thoughts,
maybe different reasons, maybe different triggers,
but the same thought processes that I felt,
just made me realize, I'm not a freak,
I'm not alone, which was huge.
It's such an isolating disease, most mental disorders,
and to realize that you're not alone
and that actually there's quite a few people
that struggle with these same things,
it was so healing and so helpful.
- Yeah, and I think it is so powerful
because sometimes we can't put words to how we feel,
and hearing someone else say it,
we're like yes, and we can almost, not learn from them,
'cause everybody's very unique and different,
but in a way we can take from their situation
what we needed to hear.
- Yeah. - And make it ours.
- Totally.
And also it kinda gives you a chance to be mentored,
but also to be a mentor.
- Yes. - You know,
you talk with someone
and you feel like you're helping them, they're helping you,
and it's like a sense of empowerment.
But, that's probably, if there is anything
anyone takes away from this it would probably be,
I know that group therapy is terrifying,
but literally the most helpful thing I did.
- I hear from a lot of my audience members
that they're worried that, like,
it never is gonna get better and it's taking forever.
Are you open to sharing how long your recovery process was,
or maybe when you knew you were gonna fight this thing,
and then what happened for you?
- Well, I think it was actually in the group therapy
that I realized, like, okay,
I am gonna beat this, like,
I finally am accepting that I have a problem,
because I'm hearing it from other people
that we all think in this same kind of, you know,
different way that's not,
and also hearing it from somebody else's mouth
sometimes makes you realize how illogical
the thought process is,
even though you relate to it, you're like--
- Totally.
- Yeah, this makes sense, but it doesn't make sense,
and why are we treating ourselves like this?
And so that's when I was like, okay,
I know that I was once not this way,
so if I could become this
then I can unbecome this, I can unlearn it,
because anything is learnable,
and there's a phrase I like to say
and it's that happiness takes work,
and I honestly think that's something
that's true for everyone.
You know, everybody has their thing
whether it's depression, or anorexia, or anxiety,
but to some extent I think that everybody
will deal with it in some way throughout their life
and I think working on yourself
is the most valuable investment you can make,
and it takes work to maintain a happy life.
And for me, the recovery process,
I would say it was, I mean, I went through it pretty fast,
it was about a year 'til I felt like I was--
- Like I'm over the hump kind of?
- I'd come over the huge hump,
and it still took a while, but it was encouraging,
like, I remember specifically on my birthday
going with my parents to a Cheesecake Factory
when I was visiting home,
and Cheesecake Factory is like, the epitome of gluttony--
- And like all of my eating disorder patients are like.
(gasps) - I know,
you're freaking out right now. (both laugh)
It was this really weird, amazing moment
where I ordered what I wanted,
and it came, and I ate it, and I felt okay about myself,
and I remember thinking (snaps fingers) wow.
Like instead of the, oh, wow, I shouldn't have eaten that,
it was like this kind of empowering,
'cause I had had a very similar experience,
like, I think a year and a half before that
where the night ended in a very different way,
where I hated myself when I went home
and secretly like, just went on a jog and ran,
and just, the food I ate meant that I was a bad person,
and it didn't mean that anymore.
Even thought maybe I still had to work
at some of my thought processes,
I would say it was about a year 'til I felt like--
- I can do this. - I can do this,
and still I feel things start to sneak back
every once in a while, but it's like,
I know you so well now, I know my triggers,
and I see them coming almost a mile away,
and it usually is when I'm stressed,
or when I'm nervous about something,
like just, I know my own triggers
and I can recognize it when it's coming back,
and I live a very, like,
so much different of a lifestyle than I did,
and it was 100% worth all of it,
'cause it was basically a full-time job to recovery.
- Yeah, as well as having an eating disorder.
People don't talk enough about how consuming it is
and then how all-consuming recovery is,
and I always tell people,
you need to tackle it like a job.
- It really was. - Like someone told you
you need to get better,
and these are the steps you need to take,
and it's not gonna be perfect,
but we'll slowly work towards it, you know, step by step.
And I hear from a lot of my viewers,
and I know that you talked about this in your book is,
reading online that eating disorders are incurable.
- Right. - And can you tell me
a little bit about how that made you feel
and like what, do you remember what you read,
or how it came about? - Yeah.
I read it online, I did a lot of research
once I accepted that this was my problem,
I was like well, I'm gonna beat it,
so I need to learn about the enemy. (laughs)
So I did a lot of research
and I remember being really discouraged
when I read from some expert
that, you know, this incurable disease of an eating disorder
and (gasps) to read that was devastating,
to realize that this is gonna be a part of me my whole life
and there's no way to get out of it?
I think that's a terrible way to phrase it.
It's not incurable, I very much feel like I'm cured
because I am such a different person,
I react to life in an incredibly different way
than I did when I was entrenched in this problem.
However, it's, I think you described it best.
Well, you say it, because you said it the best, so.
- (laughs) Yeah, I think that incurable
means that, like, we can never get out of it,
but I believe we can.
We wouldn't meet, like, as a clinician,
this is what I was telling Lindsey earlier
is like as a clinician you wouldn't have it,
because you don't meet the diaganostic criteria.
So if you're not doing x, y, z this number of times
or this isn't consuming your thought process
this percentage of the time,
then you do not have an eating disorder.
- Right. - Therefore,
you've been cured.
However, just like all of us,
we have different struggles, right?
Like, I might be more anxious at times.
If I get really stressed out, I will have trouble sleeping,
and I can feel my heart racing,
and that's my own predisposition to some extent,
whereas for you it might be like a thought pops up
and you're like, I know you,
and you know, and I can do the same.
I don't wanna feel this way,
I'm gonna take better care of myself,
I'm gonna make sure I do this thing or whatever.
So it's not incurable,
it's something that may bubble up a little bit,
but we don't have it anymore.
- Right.
And you're so right that it's very sneaky,
it always tries to come back a little bit differently
disguised in a new dress. (both laugh)
- Lookin' extra fancy. - Yeah, exactly,
it's like oh, I'm the new diet shake,
and you know, I'm meal replacement. (both laugh)
Oh, great, you know.
But the more times that it started to come back
in different dresses, you know,
I'm like, I know your face.
The dress doesn't fool me anymore.
I've fallen back slightly in the past for sure,
but I've learned to very consistently recognize it now.
- Yeah, exactly.
And I think that's really empowering for people to hear
because people get online and read things from experts
that, you know, don't know what they're talking about
essentially. - For sure.
- And so as we're talking to other people
and even to younger Lindsey, like what advice
would you have for someone going through it,
or maybe someone who's struggling
to realize they are really having an issue
with an eating disorder? - Yeah.
I mean, first and foremost, it's worth it,
the fight to get out of it.
I think I attached so much of my identity
to these things that were meaningless,
and it felt like I was losing a portion of myself
as I started to get better
and I remember the weird pain
of seeing the scale number go up,
like, you know. - Yeah.
- These are meaningless things that I knew had to happen
but I felt like weirdly I was losing a part of myself.
But once I lost that part of myself,
I found who I really was again.
I found my happiness, I found my relationships again,
I found my passion, I hadn't played for a long time.
- Oh really? - Because I had become
so consumed with this,
and then the full-time job of getting better,
I just, I had to kinda cut that out for a while,
you know, and I was able to just fully find
the richest, fullest version of myself,
only after I got through it.
I feel like I've been just abundantly enriched
every since that experience,
so I would say, I mean, that's not exactly advice,
but it's just the, it's worth it.
- Yeah, stick with it. - To find
whatever it is that works for you
because you'll find your life again.
- Yeah.
And I liked at the end of the chapter,
I forget which chapter in the book,
but you said, like, it's worth it, you're worth it,
and I think that's important to hear.
'Cause it is, like, you get to be you again,
and that's so invaluable.
So I know if you're feeling discouraged
it can be really hard to make that next choice,
but take a breath, know that you're better than this,
and it will get better,
and Lindsey's living proof that it can get better,
so I hope that you found that really helpful.
Thank you for taking the time to share your story.
- Absolutely.
- I know that so many of my audience members
were really excited to have you here
and wanted to hear your story,
and I know that it's so helpful.
And leave in the comments
if you have any tips or tricks or advice
that you'd give to someone else
if you find yourself on the other side
of that hump in recovery,
because together we can learn more
and work towards a healthy mind and a healthy body,
and we'll see you next time.
Bye. - Bye!