IN STYLE INSURGENCY, OUT OF KYIV, A DANGEROUS FANTASY. JOINING ME NOW JAVED ALI, WHO
KYIV, A DANGEROUS FANTASY. JOINING ME NOW JAVED ALI, WHO SERVED IN SENIOR
JOINING ME NOW JAVED ALI, WHO SERVED IN SENIOR COUNTERTERRORISM
SERVED IN SENIOR COUNTERTERRORISM ROLES IN THE OBAMA AND TRUMP
COUNTERTERRORISM ROLES IN THE OBAMA AND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION‘S. NOW
ROLES IN THE OBAMA AND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION‘S. NOW ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE
ADMINISTRATION‘S. NOW ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN‘S
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN‘S GERALD, OUR FORD SCHOOL OF
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN‘S GERALD, OUR FORD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC POLICY
GERALD, OUR FORD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC POLICY AND RETIRED ARMY COLONEL JACK
PUBLIC POLICY AND RETIRED ARMY COLONEL JACK JACOBS MILITARY ANALYST FOR
AND RETIRED ARMY COLONEL JACK JACOBS MILITARY ANALYST FOR NBC NEWS, AND MSNBC, AND
JACOBS MILITARY ANALYST FOR NBC NEWS, AND MSNBC, AND A RECIPIENT OF THE MEDAL OF
NBC NEWS, AND MSNBC, AND A RECIPIENT OF THE MEDAL OF HONOR FOR HIS ACTIONS, UNDER
A RECIPIENT OF THE MEDAL OF HONOR FOR HIS ACTIONS, UNDER FIRE IN VIETNAM. THANK YOU
HONOR FOR HIS ACTIONS, UNDER FIRE IN VIETNAM. THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME THIS
FIRE IN VIETNAM. THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME THIS EVENING.
BOTH FOR JOINING ME THIS EVENING. JOE.
EVENING. JOE. LET ME START WITH YOU.
JOE. LET ME START WITH YOU. THE WAR BEGAN, YOU WROTE THE
LET ME START WITH YOU. THE WAR BEGAN, YOU WROTE THE UNITED
THE WAR BEGAN, YOU WROTE THE UNITED STATES, NATO THE SOVIET
UNITED STATES, NATO THE SOVIET OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN.
STATES, NATO THE SOVIET OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN. AND IMPLEMENT SIMILAR MEASURES
OCCUPATION OF AFGHANISTAN. AND IMPLEMENT SIMILAR MEASURES WITH MODERN TWISTS TO
AND IMPLEMENT SIMILAR MEASURES WITH MODERN TWISTS TO HALT FURTHER AGGRESSION AND
WITH MODERN TWISTS TO HALT FURTHER AGGRESSION AND RESTORE SECURITY IN EUROPE, SO
HALT FURTHER AGGRESSION AND RESTORE SECURITY IN EUROPE, SO WHAT EXACT MEASURES ARE
RESTORE SECURITY IN EUROPE, SO WHAT EXACT MEASURES ARE YOU SUGGESTING HERE AND IF WE
WHAT EXACT MEASURES ARE YOU SUGGESTING HERE AND IF WE KEEP MOVING WEAPONS OVER
YOU SUGGESTING HERE AND IF WE KEEP MOVING WEAPONS OVER THERE, HOW DO WE ENSURE
KEEP MOVING WEAPONS OVER THERE, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT? THEY DON‘T END UP IN THE
THERE, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT? THEY DON‘T END UP IN THE HANDS OF
THAT? THEY DON‘T END UP IN THE HANDS OF NEO-NAZIS OR
HANDS OF NEO-NAZIS OR GENOCIDAIRES?
NEO-NAZIS OR GENOCIDAIRES? THE WAY? WE ARM SOME REALLY
GENOCIDAIRES? THE WAY? WE ARM SOME REALLY BAD MAJORITY IN AFGHANISTAN
THE WAY? WE ARM SOME REALLY BAD MAJORITY IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
BAD MAJORITY IN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN MANY. THANKS FOR THAT
AND PAKISTAN MANY. THANKS FOR THAT INTRODUCTION AND I WOULD ARGUE
MANY. THANKS FOR THAT INTRODUCTION AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT.
INTRODUCTION AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT. SOME OF THE MEASURES THAT WERE
THAT. SOME OF THE MEASURES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE IN THE
SOME OF THE MEASURES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE IN THE AFGHANISTAN WAR, GOING BACK,
PUT IN PLACE IN THE AFGHANISTAN WAR, GOING BACK, 40 YEARS WITH THE SOVIET UNION
AFGHANISTAN WAR, GOING BACK, 40 YEARS WITH THE SOVIET UNION LOOKS LIKE BASED ON REPORTING
40 YEARS WITH THE SOVIET UNION LOOKS LIKE BASED ON REPORTING THAT YOU‘VE NOTED ALREADY IN
LOOKS LIKE BASED ON REPORTING THAT YOU‘VE NOTED ALREADY IN THE PIECE THAT IS ALREADY
THAT YOU‘VE NOTED ALREADY IN THE PIECE THAT IS ALREADY UNDERWAY
THE PIECE THAT IS ALREADY UNDERWAY THE SUPPLY OF SMALL ARMS
UNDERWAY THE SUPPLY OF SMALL ARMS ANTI-ARMOR, ANTI-AIRCRAFT
THE SUPPLY OF SMALL ARMS ANTI-ARMOR, ANTI-AIRCRAFT WEAPONS. ONE WOULD THINK
ANTI-ARMOR, ANTI-AIRCRAFT WEAPONS. ONE WOULD THINK THERE‘S ALSO PROBABLY SOME
WEAPONS. ONE WOULD THINK THERE‘S ALSO PROBABLY SOME PROVISION OF INTELLIGENCE AS
THERE‘S ALSO PROBABLY SOME PROVISION OF INTELLIGENCE AS WELL TO THE UKRAINIAN
PROVISION OF INTELLIGENCE AS WELL TO THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY
WELL TO THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY TO
MILITARY TO FURTHER, HAVE THESE PRECISE.
TO FURTHER, HAVE THESE PRECISE. COORDINATED ATTACKS AND FIRES.
FURTHER, HAVE THESE PRECISE. COORDINATED ATTACKS AND FIRES. SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE
COORDINATED ATTACKS AND FIRES. SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ALREADY
SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ALREADY IMPLEMENTING.
ALREADY IMPLEMENTING. A SIMILAR
IMPLEMENTING. A SIMILAR CAMPAIGN, BUT I AGREE.
A SIMILAR CAMPAIGN, BUT I AGREE. THERE ALSO HAS TO BE SOME
CAMPAIGN, BUT I AGREE. THERE ALSO HAS TO BE SOME REALIZATION THAT
THERE ALSO HAS TO BE SOME REALIZATION THAT THINK OF THE SECOND AND THIRD
REALIZATION THAT THINK OF THE SECOND AND THIRD ORDER EFFECTS, IN TERMS OF
THINK OF THE SECOND AND THIRD ORDER EFFECTS, IN TERMS OF WHERE THESE WEAPONS ARE GOING,
ORDER EFFECTS, IN TERMS OF WHERE THESE WEAPONS ARE GOING, WHO THEY‘RE GOING TO?
WHERE THESE WEAPONS ARE GOING, WHO THEY‘RE GOING TO? AND AS YOU NOTED, THERE HAS
WHO THEY‘RE GOING TO? AND AS YOU NOTED, THERE HAS BEEN A
AND AS YOU NOTED, THERE HAS BEEN A FAR-RIGHT
BEEN A FAR-RIGHT EXTREMIST ELEMENT IN
FAR-RIGHT EXTREMIST ELEMENT IN EASTERN UKRAINE, FOR SEVERAL
YEARS NOW, SO, WE HAVE TO MAKE
YEARS NOW, SO, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF
YEARS NOW, SO, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF WEAPONS DON‘T FALL INTO THOSE
SURE THAT THOSE TYPES OF WEAPONS DON‘T FALL INTO THOSE HANDS.
WEAPONS DON‘T FALL INTO THOSE HANDS. AND JACK, YOU
HANDS. AND JACK, YOU FOUGHT AGAINST A PROTRACTED
AND JACK, YOU FOUGHT AGAINST A PROTRACTED INSURGENCY BEFORE, HOW
FOUGHT AGAINST A PROTRACTED INSURGENCY BEFORE, HOW REALISTIC IS IT TO DRAW A LINE
INSURGENCY BEFORE, HOW REALISTIC IS IT TO DRAW A LINE FROM RUSSIAN FAILURES IN
REALISTIC IS IT TO DRAW A LINE FROM RUSSIAN FAILURES IN UKRAINE TO AN END OF THE PUTIN
FROM RUSSIAN FAILURES IN UKRAINE TO AN END OF THE PUTIN REGIME AND TO GET THERE.
UKRAINE TO AN END OF THE PUTIN REGIME AND TO GET THERE. YOU‘RE STILL TALKING ABOUT A
REGIME AND TO GET THERE. YOU‘RE STILL TALKING ABOUT A LOT MORE INNOCENT DYING FIRST,
YOU‘RE STILL TALKING ABOUT A LOT MORE INNOCENT DYING FIRST, RIGHT?
LOT MORE INNOCENT DYING FIRST, RIGHT? YEAH YOU DO. THERE‘LL BE A LOT
RIGHT? YEAH YOU DO. THERE‘LL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY KILLED
YEAH YOU DO. THERE‘LL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY KILLED AND WOUNDED IN IN THIS
OF PEOPLE UNFORTUNATELY KILLED AND WOUNDED IN IN THIS AND WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT‘S
AND WOUNDED IN IN THIS AND WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT‘S GOING TO TAKE FOR IT? FINALLY
AND WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT‘S GOING TO TAKE FOR IT? FINALLY TO DIE DOWN, BUT IT‘S GOING TO
GOING TO TAKE FOR IT? FINALLY TO DIE DOWN, BUT IT‘S GOING TO BE VERY VERY UNPLEASANT
TO DIE DOWN, BUT IT‘S GOING TO BE VERY VERY UNPLEASANT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME
BE VERY VERY UNPLEASANT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE THE UKRAINIANS ARE
FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RESIST
BECAUSE THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RESIST THE LINE
GOING TO CONTINUE TO RESIST THE LINE FROM WHAT‘S
THE LINE FROM WHAT‘S IN THE FIELD TO PUTIN
FROM WHAT‘S IN THE FIELD TO PUTIN IS DOTTED AT BEST.
IN THE FIELD TO PUTIN IS DOTTED AT BEST. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE
IS DOTTED AT BEST. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SURROUNDING
PEOPLE WHO ARE SURROUNDING PUTIN WERE MADE EXTREMELY
SURROUNDING PUTIN WERE MADE EXTREMELY RICH BY PUTIN AND BY THEIR
PUTIN WERE MADE EXTREMELY RICH BY PUTIN AND BY THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM,
RICH BY PUTIN AND BY THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, AND THEY DON‘T HAVE RUBLES,
RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, AND THEY DON‘T HAVE RUBLES, THEY HAVE
AND THEY DON‘T HAVE RUBLES, THEY HAVE DOLLARS. THEY HAVE GOLD,
THEY HAVE DOLLARS. THEY HAVE GOLD, THEY HAVE OTHER PRECIOUS
DOLLARS. THEY HAVE GOLD, THEY HAVE OTHER PRECIOUS METALS.
THEY HAVE OTHER PRECIOUS METALS. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE
METALS. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE PROPERTY.
THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE PROPERTY. AND SO THE KINDS OF
PROPERTY. AND SO THE KINDS OF STRUCTURES THAT WERE PLACING
AND SO THE KINDS OF STRUCTURES THAT WERE PLACING ON THE COUNTRY IS AFFECTING
STRUCTURES THAT WERE PLACING ON THE COUNTRY IS AFFECTING THE COUNTRY OF RUSSIA.
ON THE COUNTRY IS AFFECTING THE COUNTRY OF RUSSIA. RUSSIA.
THE COUNTRY OF RUSSIA. RUSSIA. IT‘S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO
RUSSIA. IT‘S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO HAVE A
IT‘S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO HAVE A LONG-TERM EFFECT ON THE
HAVE A LONG-TERM EFFECT ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PUTIN. ON
LONG-TERM EFFECT ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PUTIN. ON THE ONE HAND AND
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PUTIN. ON THE ONE HAND AND HIS GENERALS, AND THE
THE ONE HAND AND HIS GENERALS, AND THE OLIGARCHS ON THE OTHER.
HIS GENERALS, AND THE OLIGARCHS ON THE OTHER. THEY‘LL BE SOME
OLIGARCHS ON THE OTHER. THEY‘LL BE SOME SHORT-TERM
THEY‘LL BE SOME SHORT-TERM DYSFUNCTIONS, BUT AT THE END
SHORT-TERM DYSFUNCTIONS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL THESE PEOPLE
DYSFUNCTIONS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE RICH IN THEIR RICH,
OF THE DAY, ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE RICH IN THEIR RICH, BECAUSE
ARE RICH IN THEIR RICH, BECAUSE THEY‘RE RELATED TO PUTIN
BECAUSE THEY‘RE RELATED TO PUTIN AND
THEY‘RE RELATED TO PUTIN AND UNLESS, AND UNTIL THEY GET
AND UNLESS, AND UNTIL THEY GET FED UP WITH WHAT‘S GOING ON,
UNLESS, AND UNTIL THEY GET FED UP WITH WHAT‘S GOING ON, PUTIN IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO
FED UP WITH WHAT‘S GOING ON, PUTIN IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO REMAIN IN POWER AS LONG AS HE
PUTIN IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO REMAIN IN POWER AS LONG AS HE CAN CONTROL THAT,
REMAIN IN POWER AS LONG AS HE CAN CONTROL THAT, YOU CAN CONTROL THE FLOW OF
CAN CONTROL THAT, YOU CAN CONTROL THE FLOW OF MONEY.
YOU CAN CONTROL THE FLOW OF MONEY. HE CAN CONTROL THOSE PEOPLE.
MONEY. HE CAN CONTROL THOSE PEOPLE. SO,
HE CAN CONTROL THOSE PEOPLE. SO, A HAPPENS ON THE GROUND
SO, A HAPPENS ON THE GROUND TO RUSSIAN FORCES IN
A HAPPENS ON THE GROUND TO RUSSIAN FORCES IN IN UKRAINE. DOESN‘T
TO RUSSIAN FORCES IN IN UKRAINE. DOESN‘T NECESSARILY IS NOT
IN UKRAINE. DOESN‘T NECESSARILY IS NOT NECESSARILY DELETERIOUS TO
NECESSARILY IS NOT NECESSARILY DELETERIOUS TO PUTIN HIMSELF,
NECESSARILY DELETERIOUS TO PUTIN HIMSELF, UNLESS AND UNTIL IT REALLY
PUTIN HIMSELF, UNLESS AND UNTIL IT REALLY AFFECTS HIS OTHER.
UNLESS AND UNTIL IT REALLY AFFECTS HIS OTHER. HIS OTHER
AFFECTS HIS OTHER. HIS OTHER CONSTITUENCY AND THAT IS THE
HIS OTHER CONSTITUENCY AND THAT IS THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE
CONSTITUENCY AND THAT IS THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY‘RE
RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY‘RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY‘RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. SO
IT. SO JAVED, WE‘RE SITTING AROUND
SO JAVED, WE‘RE SITTING AROUND TALKING ABOUT THESE
JAVED, WE‘RE SITTING AROUND TALKING ABOUT THESE AFGHANISTAN UKRAINE
TALKING ABOUT THESE AFGHANISTAN UKRAINE COMPARISON. YOU‘VE WRITTEN
AFGHANISTAN UKRAINE COMPARISON. YOU‘VE WRITTEN ABOUT IT. DO YOU THINK PUTIN
COMPARISON. YOU‘VE WRITTEN ABOUT IT. DO YOU THINK PUTIN HAS THIS IN THE BACK OF HIS
ABOUT IT. DO YOU THINK PUTIN HAS THIS IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD TO? SURELY HE MUST
HAS THIS IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD TO? SURELY HE MUST UNDERSTAND BE AWARE OF IT. HE
HEAD TO? SURELY HE MUST UNDERSTAND BE AWARE OF IT. HE WAS IN THE KGB IN THE 1980S
UNDERSTAND BE AWARE OF IT. HE WAS IN THE KGB IN THE 1980S WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING,
WAS IN THE KGB IN THE 1980S WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING, ONE WOULD THINK THAT HE
WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING, ONE WOULD THINK THAT HE IS ABSOLUTELY AWARE OF
ONE WOULD THINK THAT HE IS ABSOLUTELY AWARE OF THE
IS ABSOLUTELY AWARE OF THE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT,
THE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT, BATTLEFIELD LOSSES, THE
FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT, BATTLEFIELD LOSSES, THE RUSSIANS THAT TAKEN SO FAR AND
BATTLEFIELD LOSSES, THE RUSSIANS THAT TAKEN SO FAR AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THOSE
RUSSIANS THAT TAKEN SO FAR AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THOSE NUMBERS
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE. TRULY
NUMBERS ARE. TRULY OUR US INTELLIGENCE LEADERS
ARE. TRULY OUR US INTELLIGENCE LEADERS TESTIFIED
OUR US INTELLIGENCE LEADERS TESTIFIED TO CONGRESS THIS WEEK.
TESTIFIED TO CONGRESS THIS WEEK. THEY HAVE LOW CONFIDENCE
TO CONGRESS THIS WEEK. THEY HAVE LOW CONFIDENCE ESTIMATES IN THE
THEY HAVE LOW CONFIDENCE ESTIMATES IN THE THOUSAND TROOPS AT LEAST BEING
ESTIMATES IN THE THOUSAND TROOPS AT LEAST BEING KILLED BUT THAT IS A
THOUSAND TROOPS AT LEAST BEING KILLED BUT THAT IS A STAGGERING NUMBER
KILLED BUT THAT IS A STAGGERING NUMBER AND ONLY TWO WEEKS OF THE
STAGGERING NUMBER AND ONLY TWO WEEKS OF THE CONFLICT BY COMPARISON. THE
AND ONLY TWO WEEKS OF THE CONFLICT BY COMPARISON. THE SOVIETS LOST ABOUT
CONFLICT BY COMPARISON. THE SOVIETS LOST ABOUT 15,000 TROOPS OVER THE SPAN OF
SOVIETS LOST ABOUT 15,000 TROOPS OVER THE SPAN OF 10 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN
15,000 TROOPS OVER THE SPAN OF 10 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN GOING BACK FROM 1979 TO
10 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN GOING BACK FROM 1979 TO 1989. SO, IF THE NUMBERS
GOING BACK FROM 1979 TO 1989. SO, IF THE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE, THAT MEANS THEY
1989. SO, IF THE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE, THAT MEANS THEY ALREADY LOST ABOUT A THIRD OF
ARE ACCURATE, THAT MEANS THEY ALREADY LOST ABOUT A THIRD OF THE COMBAT TROOPS. THEY LOST
ALREADY LOST ABOUT A THIRD OF THE COMBAT TROOPS. THEY LOST IN 10 YEARS OF FIGHTING
THE COMBAT TROOPS. THEY LOST IN 10 YEARS OF FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN. AND IF YOU‘RE
IN 10 YEARS OF FIGHTING IN AFGHANISTAN. AND IF YOU‘RE PRESIDENT PUTIN, SITTING IN
IN AFGHANISTAN. AND IF YOU‘RE PRESIDENT PUTIN, SITTING IN MOSCOW, ARE YOU GOING TO LET
PRESIDENT PUTIN, SITTING IN MOSCOW, ARE YOU GOING TO LET THESE NUMBERS FURTHER
MOSCOW, ARE YOU GOING TO LET THESE NUMBERS FURTHER FURTHER? ESCALATE
THESE NUMBERS FURTHER FURTHER? ESCALATE 10,000 20,000, 30,000
FURTHER? ESCALATE 10,000 20,000, 30,000 RUSSIAN DEAD. AND IF THAT‘S
10,000 20,000, 30,000 RUSSIAN DEAD. AND IF THAT‘S THE CASE, THAT IS A HORRIFIC.
RUSSIAN DEAD. AND IF THAT‘S THE CASE, THAT IS A HORRIFIC. OUTCOME FOR THE RUSSIAN
THE CASE, THAT IS A HORRIFIC. OUTCOME FOR THE RUSSIAN MILITARY.
OUTCOME FOR THE RUSSIAN MILITARY. JOHN, ONE OF THE BIG
MILITARY. JOHN, ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCE FROM
JOHN, ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCE FROM 1979 AS WE ARE LIVING IN AN
DIFFERENCE FROM 1979 AS WE ARE LIVING IN AN AGE,
1979 AS WE ARE LIVING IN AN AGE, NOT JUST A TELEVISION
AGE, NOT JUST A TELEVISION AND CABLE NEWS, BUT OF SOCIAL
NOT JUST A TELEVISION AND CABLE NEWS, BUT OF SOCIAL MEDIA. SO, ON THE ONE HAND,
AND CABLE NEWS, BUT OF SOCIAL MEDIA. SO, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU KNOW, THERE‘S A LIMIT TO
MEDIA. SO, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU KNOW, THERE‘S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH THE RUSSIANS CAN
YOU KNOW, THERE‘S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH THE RUSSIANS CAN COVER UP THE CRIMES THAT ARE
HOW MUCH THE RUSSIANS CAN COVER UP THE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING COMMITTED
COVER UP THE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING COMMITTED IN THIS WAR, ON THE OTHER
BEING COMMITTED IN THIS WAR, ON THE OTHER HAND.
IN THIS WAR, ON THE OTHER HAND. THEY‘RE ALSO PRETTY GOOD AT
HAND. THEY‘RE ALSO PRETTY GOOD AT DISINFORMATION,
THEY‘RE ALSO PRETTY GOOD AT DISINFORMATION, ESPECIALLY ONLINE ON SOCIAL
DISINFORMATION, ESPECIALLY ONLINE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
ESPECIALLY ONLINE ON SOCIAL MEDIA. HOW
MEDIA. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THAT AFFECTS
HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THAT AFFECTS THE PROSPECTS OF A SUCCESSFUL?
MUCH DO YOU THINK THAT AFFECTS THE PROSPECTS OF A SUCCESSFUL? SUCCESSFUL INSURGENCY
THE PROSPECTS OF A SUCCESSFUL? SUCCESSFUL INSURGENCY AGAINST A FOREIGN OCCUPYING
SUCCESSFUL INSURGENCY AGAINST A FOREIGN OCCUPYING FORCE?
AGAINST A FOREIGN OCCUPYING FORCE? YEAH, I THINK THAT THE
FORCE? YEAH, I THINK THAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CARRY
YEAH, I THINK THAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CARRY ON AND THE, IT DOESN‘T REALLY
UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CARRY ON AND THE, IT DOESN‘T REALLY MATTER HOW MUCH
ON AND THE, IT DOESN‘T REALLY MATTER HOW MUCH PUTIN CAN RESTRICT THE FLOW OF
MATTER HOW MUCH PUTIN CAN RESTRICT THE FLOW OF INFORMATION INSIDE HIS OWN
PUTIN CAN RESTRICT THE FLOW OF INFORMATION INSIDE HIS OWN COUNTRY.
INFORMATION INSIDE HIS OWN COUNTRY. THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO
COUNTRY. THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CARRY ON DOING WHAT THEY‘RE
THE UKRAINIANS ARE GOING TO CARRY ON DOING WHAT THEY‘RE DOING BECAUSE THEY‘RE EXPOSED
CARRY ON DOING WHAT THEY‘RE DOING BECAUSE THEY‘RE EXPOSED TO THE TRUTH.
DOING BECAUSE THEY‘RE EXPOSED TO THE TRUTH. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
TO THE TRUTH. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN THE BODY BAG START GOING
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN THE BODY BAG START GOING HOME
WHEN THE BODY BAG START GOING HOME TO RUSSIA IN LARGE NUMBERS.
HOME TO RUSSIA IN LARGE NUMBERS. I MEAN, THINK ABOUT LOSING
TO RUSSIA IN LARGE NUMBERS. I MEAN, THINK ABOUT LOSING MAYBE
I MEAN, THINK ABOUT LOSING MAYBE THREE THOUSAND IN THREE, TWO
MAYBE THREE THOUSAND IN THREE, TWO OR THREE WEEKS.
THREE THOUSAND IN THREE, TWO OR THREE WEEKS. IT‘S AN ENORMOUS.
OR THREE WEEKS. IT‘S AN ENORMOUS. IT‘S AN ENORMOUS
IT‘S AN ENORMOUS. IT‘S AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
IT‘S AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF PEOPLE. PEOPLE, THAT‘S GOING TO HAVE A
NUMBER OF PEOPLE. PEOPLE, THAT‘S GOING TO HAVE A DELETERIOUS EFFECT.
PEOPLE, THAT‘S GOING TO HAVE A DELETERIOUS EFFECT. OBVIOUSLY ON THE POLITY INSIDE
DELETERIOUS EFFECT. OBVIOUSLY ON THE POLITY INSIDE RUSSIA AND SOME
OBVIOUSLY ON THE POLITY INSIDE RUSSIA AND SOME SOMETHING MAY HAPPEN AS A
RUSSIA AND SOME SOMETHING MAY HAPPEN AS A RESULT OF THAT. DON‘T FORGET
SOMETHING MAY HAPPEN AS A RESULT OF THAT. DON‘T FORGET ALSO THAT THE KIND OF CONFLICT
RESULT OF THAT. DON‘T FORGET ALSO THAT THE KIND OF CONFLICT THAT EXISTED IN
ALSO THAT THE KIND OF CONFLICT THAT EXISTED IN IN AFGHANISTAN
THAT EXISTED IN IN AFGHANISTAN WITH BOTH THE UNITED STATES ON
IN AFGHANISTAN WITH BOTH THE UNITED STATES ON THE ONE HAND
WITH BOTH THE UNITED STATES ON THE ONE HAND BEING THERE AND THE RUSSIANS
THE ONE HAND BEING THERE AND THE RUSSIANS ON THE OTHER
BEING THERE AND THE RUSSIANS ON THE OTHER IS VERY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN
ON THE OTHER IS VERY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE CONFLICT THAT‘S TAKING
IS VERY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE CONFLICT THAT‘S TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW, IN UKRAINE
THE CONFLICT THAT‘S TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW, IN UKRAINE IN UKRAINE. IT‘S
PLACE RIGHT NOW, IN UKRAINE IN UKRAINE. IT‘S EXTREMELY VIOLENT. BOTH SIDES
IN UKRAINE. IT‘S EXTREMELY VIOLENT. BOTH SIDES HAVE
EXTREMELY VIOLENT. BOTH SIDES HAVE PRECISION-GUIDED WEAPONS,
HAVE PRECISION-GUIDED WEAPONS, ANY TANK WEAPONS. ANY
PRECISION-GUIDED WEAPONS, ANY TANK WEAPONS. ANY AIRCRAFT.
ANY TANK WEAPONS. ANY AIRCRAFT. IF WEAPONS AND MORE TO COME,
AIRCRAFT. IF WEAPONS AND MORE TO COME, IT‘S ALSO HAS A CONCENTRATED
IF WEAPONS AND MORE TO COME, IT‘S ALSO HAS A CONCENTRATED POPULATION IN CITIES THAT THAT
IT‘S ALSO HAS A CONCENTRATED POPULATION IN CITIES THAT THAT AFGHANISTAN DIDN‘T HAVE. SO
POPULATION IN CITIES THAT THAT AFGHANISTAN DIDN‘T HAVE. SO THE CASUALTIES
AFGHANISTAN DIDN‘T HAVE. SO THE CASUALTIES EXTREMELY HIGH ON BOTH SIDES
THE CASUALTIES EXTREMELY HIGH ON BOTH SIDES AND PARTICULARLY AGAINST
EXTREMELY HIGH ON BOTH SIDES AND PARTICULARLY AGAINST RUSSIANS
AND PARTICULARLY AGAINST RUSSIANS ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE, AND
RUSSIANS ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE, AND THOSE NUMBERS WILL BE COMING
ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE, AND THOSE NUMBERS WILL BE COMING HOME TO RUSSIA IN FAIRLY
THOSE NUMBERS WILL BE COMING HOME TO RUSSIA IN FAIRLY SHORT ORDER
HOME TO RUSSIA IN FAIRLY SHORT ORDER MIDI.
SHORT ORDER MIDI. YES, AND
MIDI. YES, AND JAVA JUST CIRCLING BACK TO
YES, AND JAVA JUST CIRCLING BACK TO SOMETHING. I MENTIONED EARLIER
JAVA JUST CIRCLING BACK TO SOMETHING. I MENTIONED EARLIER THIS FEAR THAT
SOMETHING. I MENTIONED EARLIER THIS FEAR THAT WITH AFGHANISTAN AND THE
THIS FEAR THAT WITH AFGHANISTAN AND THE INSURGENCY WAS SUCCESSFUL IN
WITH AFGHANISTAN AND THE INSURGENCY WAS SUCCESSFUL IN EJECTING THE SOVIETS, BUT THEN
INSURGENCY WAS SUCCESSFUL IN EJECTING THE SOVIETS, BUT THEN IT MANY OF THOSE FIGHTERS,
EJECTING THE SOVIETS, BUT THEN IT MANY OF THOSE FIGHTERS, SOME OF THOSE FIVE WORST
IT MANY OF THOSE FIGHTERS, SOME OF THOSE FIVE WORST FIGHTERS IN THAT GROUP TURNED
SOME OF THOSE FIVE WORST FIGHTERS IN THAT GROUP TURNED AGAINST THE WEST
FIGHTERS IN THAT GROUP TURNED AGAINST THE WEST YOU HAVE
AGAINST THE WEST YOU HAVE FAR-RIGHT, MILITIAS. YOU HAVE,
YOU HAVE FAR-RIGHT, MILITIAS. YOU HAVE, THE AZOV BATTALION AND OTHERS
FAR-RIGHT, MILITIAS. YOU HAVE, THE AZOV BATTALION AND OTHERS FIGHTING AGAINST THE RUSSIANS.
THE AZOV BATTALION AND OTHERS FIGHTING AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. IF YOU FLOOD THAT COUNTRY WITH
FIGHTING AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. IF YOU FLOOD THAT COUNTRY WITH WEAPONS, ONCE THE WAR IS OVER,
IF YOU FLOOD THAT COUNTRY WITH WEAPONS, ONCE THE WAR IS OVER, WHAT DO SOME OF THOSE
WEAPONS, ONCE THE WAR IS OVER, WHAT DO SOME OF THOSE FAR-RIGHT GROUPS,
WHAT DO SOME OF THOSE FAR-RIGHT GROUPS, FAR-RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO
FAR-RIGHT GROUPS, FAR-RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO ARE HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE
FAR-RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO ARE HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT
ARE HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT THOSE FAR RIGHT GROUPS FOR
TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT THOSE FAR RIGHT GROUPS FOR RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO ARE
THOSE FAR RIGHT GROUPS FOR RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO ARE HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE
RIGHT FOREIGN FIGHTERS WHO ARE HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT DO THEY
HEADING FOR UKRAINE. WE‘RE TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT DO THEY WELL, THAT‘S WHERE
TOLD BY EXPERTS. WHAT DO THEY WELL, THAT‘S WHERE WESTERN INTELLIGENCE
WELL, THAT‘S WHERE WESTERN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES
WESTERN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES AND IN MY FORMER COLLEAGUES
SERVICES AND IN MY FORMER COLLEAGUES AND THE US INTELLIGENCE
AND IN MY FORMER COLLEAGUES AND THE US INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY NEED TO BE ON THE
AND THE US INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY NEED TO BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THAT, AND
COMMUNITY NEED TO BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THAT, AND THERE
LOOKOUT FOR THAT, AND THERE NEED TO BE MECHANISMS
THERE NEED TO BE MECHANISMS PUT IN PLACE. NOW TO ENSURE
NEED TO BE MECHANISMS PUT IN PLACE. NOW TO ENSURE THAT THESE WEAPONS DON‘T GO
PUT IN PLACE. NOW TO ENSURE THAT THESE WEAPONS DON‘T GO TO THE WRONG SIDE OF THE
THAT THESE WEAPONS DON‘T GO TO THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LEDGER IN THE FIGHT
TO THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LEDGER IN THE FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. AND
LEDGER IN THE FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. AND IF THEY DO
AGAINST RUSSIA RIGHT NOW. AND IF THEY DO THAT, THEY‘RE
IF THEY DO THAT, THEY‘RE THERE‘S A WAY TO MONITOR THOSE
THAT, THEY‘RE THERE‘S A WAY TO MONITOR THOSE PEOPLE. MAKE SURE THAT
THERE‘S A WAY TO MONITOR THOSE PEOPLE. MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN TRACK THEM WHEN
PEOPLE. MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN TRACK THEM WHEN THEY‘RE WHEN THEY‘RE GOING
YOU CAN TRACK THEM WHEN THEY‘RE WHEN THEY‘RE GOING ACROSS
THEY‘RE WHEN THEY‘RE GOING ACROSS A BORDER AND
ACROSS A BORDER AND EVEN FOR
A BORDER AND EVEN FOR ATKINS WHO ARE
EVEN FOR ATKINS WHO ARE POTENTIALLY TRYING TO GET
ATKINS WHO ARE POTENTIALLY TRYING TO GET THERE, WHO HAVE EXTREMIST
POTENTIALLY TRYING TO GET THERE, WHO HAVE EXTREMIST BACKGROUND. SO YOU NEED TO
THERE, WHO HAVE EXTREMIST BACKGROUND. SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THOSE PEOPLE
BACKGROUND. SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THOSE PEOPLE EITHER DON‘T COME BACK INTO
MAKE SURE THOSE PEOPLE EITHER DON‘T COME BACK INTO THE COUNTRY OR IF THEY DO.
EITHER DON‘T COME BACK INTO THE COUNTRY OR IF THEY DO. THAT, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY
THE COUNTRY OR IF THEY DO. THAT, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY‘RE DOING
THAT, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY‘RE DOING BECAUSE WE DON‘T WANT TO SEE.
UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY‘RE DOING BECAUSE WE DON‘T WANT TO SEE. ANOTHER
BECAUSE WE DON‘T WANT TO SEE. ANOTHER AL-QAEDA, LIKE
ANOTHER AL-QAEDA, LIKE EMERGENCE OF AN INTERNATIONAL
AL-QAEDA, LIKE EMERGENCE OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST
EMERGENCE OF AN INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST ELEMENT
TERRORIST ELEMENT OF COME FROM THIS
ELEMENT OF COME FROM THIS CONFLICT.
OF COME FROM THIS CONFLICT. JAVED MENTIONED THAT
CONFLICT. JAVED MENTIONED THAT AMERICANS. YOU
JAVED MENTIONED THAT AMERICANS. YOU COMMANDED TROOPS IN WAR. AND
AMERICANS. YOU COMMANDED TROOPS IN WAR. AND NOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE
COMMANDED TROOPS IN WAR. AND NOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN MILITARY
NOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN MILITARY VETERANS RARING TO VOLUNTEER
THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN MILITARY VETERANS RARING TO VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT WITH THE UKRAINIANS
VETERANS RARING TO VOLUNTEER TO FIGHT WITH THE UKRAINIANS AGAINST THE RUSSIANS ON THE
TO FIGHT WITH THE UKRAINIANS AGAINST THE RUSSIANS ON THE GROUND AS A RETIRED SOLDIER.
AGAINST THE RUSSIANS ON THE GROUND AS A RETIRED SOLDIER. IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? WHAT
GROUND AS A RETIRED SOLDIER. IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE
IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE VETERANS IF YOU HAD THE
WOULD YOU SAY TO THOSE VETERANS IF YOU HAD THE CHANCE?
VETERANS IF YOU HAD THE CHANCE? WELL, THEY‘RE FREE TO DO
CHANCE? WELL, THEY‘RE FREE TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. BUT IT‘S A
WELL, THEY‘RE FREE TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. BUT IT‘S A IT‘S NOT A PARTICULARLY GOOD
WHATEVER THEY WANT. BUT IT‘S A IT‘S NOT A PARTICULARLY GOOD IDEA TO HAVE AMERICANS.
IT‘S NOT A PARTICULARLY GOOD IDEA TO HAVE AMERICANS. FIGHTING RUSSIANS INSIDE,
IDEA TO HAVE AMERICANS. FIGHTING RUSSIANS INSIDE, UKRAINE.
FIGHTING RUSSIANS INSIDE, UKRAINE. THERE IS ONE THING THAT MR.
UKRAINE. THERE IS ONE THING THAT MR. ALI
THERE IS ONE THING THAT MR. ALI MENTIONED, THAT‘S REALLY
ALI MENTIONED, THAT‘S REALLY IMPORTANT AND WE SHOULD
MENTIONED, THAT‘S REALLY IMPORTANT AND WE SHOULD REMEMBER
IMPORTANT AND WE SHOULD REMEMBER IS THE
REMEMBER IS THE THAT AMERICANS YOU COMMANDED
IS THE THAT AMERICANS YOU COMMANDED TROOPS IN WAR. AND NOW THERE
THAT AMERICANS YOU COMMANDED TROOPS IN WAR. AND NOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS
TROOPS IN WAR. AND NOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS SINCE INFORMATION THAT‘S
ARE HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS SINCE INFORMATION THAT‘S COMING FROM THE UNITED STATES
SINCE INFORMATION THAT‘S COMING FROM THE UNITED STATES AND OUR WESTERN
COMING FROM THE UNITED STATES AND OUR WESTERN ALLIES TO THE FIGHTERS IN
AND OUR WESTERN ALLIES TO THE FIGHTERS IN UKRAINE. IF THERE‘S ONE THING
ALLIES TO THE FIGHTERS IN UKRAINE. IF THERE‘S ONE THING OTHER THAN AMMUNITION AND FOOD
UKRAINE. IF THERE‘S ONE THING OTHER THAN AMMUNITION AND FOOD ANTI-TANK WEAPONS, ANY
OTHER THAN AMMUNITION AND FOOD ANTI-TANK WEAPONS, ANY AIRCRAFT WEAPONS THAT WE CAN
ANTI-TANK WEAPONS, ANY AIRCRAFT WEAPONS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE,
AIRCRAFT WEAPONS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE, THAT‘S REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT
PROVIDE, THAT‘S REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT TO
THAT‘S REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE SUCCESS OF THE RESISTANCE
TO THE SUCCESS OF THE RESISTANCE AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. IT‘S
THE SUCCESS OF THE RESISTANCE AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. IT‘S THIS INTELLIGENCE
AGAINST THE RUSSIANS. IT‘S THIS INTELLIGENCE MIDI.
THIS INTELLIGENCE MIDI. WE‘LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
MIDI. WE‘LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. ON THAT NOTE. COLONEL. JACK
WE‘LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE. ON THAT NOTE. COLONEL. JACK JACOBS JAVED ALI. THANK YOU SO
ON THAT NOTE. COLONEL. JACK JACOBS JAVED ALI. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JACOBS JAVED ALI. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TO BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR