- One thing I'm curious\nabout before we get obviously
into this amazing sprawling vision: what was your take
when you saw Cavill's CGI mustache removal?
You must have seen that, I mean -
- I've only seen it in memes.
You know, it was funny because, you know,
I just, part of me is happy
that we were able to have that not be the total legacy
"of the hard work that he had\ndone over the last 10 years.
It's sad to think that would been the last view
that people had of Superman was just that,
"whatever that is.
- Zack, man, congratulations on this.
This has been quite the saga, to say the least.
Talk to me a little bit about -
Well firstly, here's where I want to start.
2017, a movie comes out called 'Justice League.'
It has your name on it.
How does that make you\nfeel now in retrospect?
Did you fight that?
Did you not want your name on that movie?
'Cause obviously now seeing this,
we know how far removed that is from your vision.
Um, did I fight it?
You know, I don't know if I even thought about it,
really to be -
At that time.
I thought about, like, did I think about, like,
should I take my name off the movie?
I mean, in retrospect
maybe that would have been a thing I could have done
but like, you know, my friends were all in it
and everyone worked so hard.
I just felt like, you know, I never saw it.
So, maybe if I had seen it,
I might have wanted to take my name off it,
but I don't, I never did.
So I couldn't, it was hard to care that much.
- I've been talking to the cast
of your 'Justice League' for many years.
And the last couple of years,
this infamous 'Snyder Cut' has come up frequently,
as you can imagine. Momoa talked to me
about a year and a half ago.
He'd seen something, a version of this.
Did them talking about it,
and talking about it so positively in the media -
I mean, Momoa was right up front.
He was saying, "Yeah, (beep) yeah,
I want to see this movie."
Did that help this, as much
as the fan movement, help this happen, you think?
- Oh, I’m sure certainly it did, you know,
like, they volumize the fans' message in an incredible way.
And they were able to, frankly, they were able to
volumeize the message, our message of, you know,
suicide awareness, prevention awareness,
and mental health awareness, you know. So, through them
and the fans, this great, sort of, second cause emerged,
along with the call to get the movie finished.
So, you know, I think that,
that, yeah, I thank them greatly
for lending their voices to it
because without them, I'm sure we wouldn't be where we are.
- I mean, you've engendered so much fan love over the years,
even prior to these DC movies.
I mean, the, you know,
the people that love you truly love you
and they live and breathe your vision for filmmaking.
That being said, this has taken it, as you alluded to,
to a whole 'nother level.
I mean, what has struck you,
surprised you about the power of fandom,
the power of fans through this, these last couple years?
- Yeah, just, you know,
being able to generate such a, have such a voice, you know,
and have such an influential voice.
I didn't think that they would be able to bring, you know,
a big company like Warner Bros.,
Warner Media, to the negotiating table, if you will.
They, they did.
And it wouldn't have happened without them.
- One of the many things I think fans
are gonna be excited to see in this film
is an extended Knightmare sequence,
without revealing too much.
This is the part of the relatively small amount
of material that you shot newly for this film.
I'm curious, was the Knightmare sequence always part
of your vision for this film?
Or did that come afterwards when you realized,
"Oh, I do have the opportunity to add more to this?"
- It was an element of that world
that I'd always thought about.
I think famously in ‘BvS’ - I don’t know if famously -
but he has, you know, the Joker card
on his gun and that's always brought up a lot of questions
about like where he got it and what does it mean?
And so, you know,
I had always sort of had that idea in the back of my mind,
as well as sort of this story of Joker's involvement
with Robin and how those two stories,
kind of, weirdly those two things get to, kind of,
we get to see a sort of crossroads
for those stories in this little scene.
And so anyway, my point is only that yeah,
the scene was, you know, is consistent
and it completes ideas I had about what we might do
in the future.
“Completes” - I guess begins.
- [Laughs] Right.
- But you know, so the answer is, you know,
it's original, but it's as far, in my mind,
in my, the way I think about the mythology
it's pretty, it's well-trodden ground to me.
- And you had very detailed plans
for the next two 'Justice League' films.
Did you have titles in mind?
- Oh god, you know, I'll go look at my books.
I probably wrote down, I probably -
I do this for all the movies,
probably like a page of titles that I tried.
But yeah, it probably wasn't going
to be 'Justice League 2' and '3,'
that I can tell you.
- So, I mean, to be\nhonest, after watching this
I feel like all bets are off for the future.
I mean, going into this, I was like
this is a miracle that this has happened.
But having seen what\nthe fans did to get this
to this point, would anything shock you?
I mean, this ends on a cliffhanger.
This ends on the fans -
Your fans are going to want to see more of this,
you know that.
In your mind, if they galvanize again,
what's your attitude about coming back
to the so-called SnyderVerse?
- Yeah, look, I mean
I don't know what they would be able to, well, frankly
there's no telling what they can do 'cause they
can do anything, apparently.
'Cause this really - Let's just put it this way.
It would be, in my mind, more unlikely
for this movie to exist than another movie to exist.
That is to say, it seems more,
just from strategic standpoint, weirder to go back
and finish a movie that was already released
than to make a new one, but I'm glad they did.
And that's amazing.
So, you know, I don't know.
I mean, look, Warner Bros., they've said
and Walter [Hamada] has said, you know, that this is a kind
of a closed loop and it is what it is.
And I respect that. You know,
they consider the theatrical version
of 'Justice League' canon, and that's,
but that's their prerogative because they, you know
they're the keys to the castle.
So it is what it is.
But happy that I was allowed to do this
and couldn't be happier 'cause [I] love the fans
and love that they get a little,
a little bit more of this trilogy.
- Is there one sequence in particular?
I mean, we're talking four hours of movie,
so there's a lot of movie in here for the fans,
but is there one that you are most excited
for the fans to see, to analyze, to pick apart?
- Oh wow."}
There's a few of them actually.
I mean, yes.
The sequence that you alluded to
at the end and the Knightmare sequence
there's a lot of stuff to unpack in that sequence.
Even frankly, just the Darkseid relationship
to his underlings and his other, the other members
the Apocalypians.
That's always fun to talk about.
And then frankly, it'd be interesting to analyze
the Justice League themselves and how they might go forward,
what's in store.
Also, I don't know if you noticed, but in the final shot
I don't know if this is a spoiler,
but the very last shot of the movie,
it's a wide shot, a big wide shot.
If you look at the Wayne Manor,
which is just small in the frame
you could see something happening there,
which is interesting.
- Since I don't know when we're going
to get another chance to talk about your SnyderVerse,
there were a few rumors over the years
that I was always curious about.
And if you'll indulge me and tell me if there was any truth
to any of these.
- Way back when, there\nwas talk of Nightwing,
of Adam Driver even, being cast as Nightwing.
Was Nightwing ever part of your plans?
Was Adam Driver ever part of your plans?
- I did talk to Adam Driver about a role,
but it wasn't Nightwing.
- You mentioned the, Batman being scarred
by the the murder of Robin.
Were there concrete plans
in the sequels to go back to a flashback to see that?
- Absolutely, absolutely.
That was something I really wanted to do.
There was a whole, there\nwas a sequence where
in the post-apocalyptic world
where Batman tells that story
and we see it through his eyes.
- A lot of rumors in recent times
of Green Lantern being involved,
even Ryan Reynolds's Green Lantern.
Was that ever even a thought to call up Ryan
and see if he would want to shoot something?
- You know, and we can talk about this more later,
but there were, there had been a plan
and I had shot a sequence with Green Lantern.
But we felt like this was - not to include it
seemed - you understand. But there's more to it.
- Right, OK. [Laughs]
There's always more to it with your stuff.
There's always more to it.
I love what Michael Shannon did, a Zod way back when
in 'Man of Steel,' but I'm always intrigued.
I heard that you had Daniel Day-Lewis in mind.
Was Daniel Day-Lewis someone you ever got to the table,
on the phone to talk you about that role?
- When you talk about Daniel Day-Lewis as an actor,
he can play any part you want.
Like, you could - If Daniel Day-Lewis called you
up and said, "Look, I want to be in your movie.
"So, I want to be Lois Lane."
You're like, "Well, I guess, OK."
"It's a take I wasn't prepared for, but yes."
- [Laughs]
- So yeah, so we always, we did talk.
We had hoped Daniel Day-Lewis would be interested
in the movie, but -
- Yeah, why not shoot for the moon?
So, I talked to Joe\nManganiello the other day.
He's a big fan of yours, obviously.
And we get to see a little bit more of Deathstroke
in this one.
And I said the same thing to him I said to you,
is like, "I have no idea, all bets are off now."
I could see a Deathstroke HBO Max series,
for all I know.
I don't know.
I mean, the fact is when you started this,
the streaming game was much different.
Is there a character, whether you or the showrunner
or give it to somebody else, like a character
from your SnyderVerse, a Martian Manhunter series,
a Deathstroke series?
Is there one that you would be intrigued to see
in streaming form?
- I think all those are great ideas.
I think Martian Manhunter and Deathstroke are great ideas
or this kind of prequel concept where you're back
with Batman and his young ward.
And they're, like, you know, just doing what they did
for 20 years in Gotham, that would be an interesting thing.
I don't know if Ben would want to do that.
But there's a lot of, so
I mean, because it's such a vast canvas, you know,
you can poke into it anywhere you want
and find a, kind of, small story
that would be interesting to tell, you know. I mean,
Deathstroke's origin is an amazing place to go and look.
- Are you plugged in at all to,
like, the DC Universe plans from this point?
- No.
- You're not.
So like, because I'm intrigued,
we're going to see your version of Batman.
We're going to see Ben's Batman mingle apparently
with like Burton-universe Batman, presumably
in this Flash-thing. As a fan, as someone that has,
you know, helped create that in some ways,
what's your perspective on seeing that?
- I guess from my point of view, I think that's cool.
I mean,
I don't know what else to say except, like, yeah,
that's an amazing idea to, you know - the butterfly
on a wheel concept of time getting distorted is cool.
And I'd be interested to seeing what that means.
I mean, I think that in a lot of ways
what we've is kind of undeniable now, as far
as, like, the stamp it's put on the DC world.
So, yeah.
- You mentioned early on\nyour daughter, Autumn,
and you have a lovely acknowledgement of her loss
in this film, a billboard highlighting
a suicide prevention cause.
How did that, when did that occur to you as a
nice acknowledgement, as a way to,
kind of, spread the good\nword, even in the context
of a film like this?
- Well, the work the fans have done,
you know for suicide prevention, frankly,
just spread the word as much as possible.
We felt like that was a great thing to do.
And then, I mean, I don't know
if you got to watch the entire end credits
but like, you know, there's a dedication to her
but then that Alison Krauss "Hallelujah" is pretty,
it's pretty, it's pretty intense, so.
- Well, the other thing I did\nwant to mention is, I mean
congratulations, not only on this.
I'm excited to talk to you\nabout 'Army of the Dead'
coming up, which seems like, again,
quintessential Zack Snyder, balls-to-the-wall action.
What can I expect out of that one?
- That one is really just, it's a big exhale, I think.
And it's an amazing and fun ride,
and with a ton of caring and just a lot
of style and a lot of beautiful zombies that, you know,
do stuff you would never expect them to do,
which I love. You know me, I like to, I like to -
I know the rules, so I like to break them.
Everyone was amazing.
And we all had a great time making it.
Really one of the best experiences I've had as a filmmaker.
- Yeah, well, your 'Dawn of\nthe Dead' is a high watermark
for me in your career.
So, I'm excited to see you
at least dabble a little bit more in that world.
People are always curious, you know, the Marvel,
your perspective on Marvel.
I mean, you're a fan of all of it,
I know, the comics.
So, could you imagine, like, do you have a relationship
with Kevin Feige? Have you guys ever even loosely
talked about you getting involved?
- I've never met him.
Incredible work he's done, insanely beautiful, you know,
and they've run the gamut.
I mean, let's be honest, they've done,
they've put their toes in every possible genre.
They've played with their characters in, now I think
in even more experimental ways, you know, than, you know -
They're secure enough to then -
- They can take chances now.
- Not playing defense, you know, anymore,
which I think is pretty awesome.
- Yeah, yeah.
I mean, 'WandaVision.'
I mean, when you see, kind of, like the subversive, kind
of bizarre tropes that they're playing
with, that's, that's a cool space to be in.
- Yeah, it's really good, it's 100 percent great.
- Yeah. I mean, like I, you know
I'm sure fans would wonder like, yeah, if
Kevin Feige calls you up and says, like,
"Hey, you want to give a stab at, at 'Wolverine'?"
I mean, I think the fans would be interested,
into that, into Zack Snyder's 'Wolverine.'
- That's interesting.
- That's a, that's a phone call worth taking, right?
- From your lips to God's ears.
- [Laughs] I mean, the other aspect,
then I'll let you go in a second,
but the other aspect,
like from a filmmaking perspective that I'm fascinated by
is this, like, [you] ironically ended
up with the most creative freedom
of your career out of this horrendous situation.
Like, you've now ended up with, like, this film that is just
like, I've described this to others,
like, "This is like Zack Snyder being, like, pumped
into your veins.
This is just, like, undiluted Zack Snyder.
What do you, I mean, your perspective on, like,
since the 'Snyder Cut' has come into, into existence
there's talk of all these other cuts, of the "Air cut,"
of these other filmmakers getting opportunities.
Do you think that filmmakers need to be kind of
given a little bit more respect
and a little bit more right to deliver their vision?
- Listen, I mean, yes.
I think, yeah, 100 percent, but you know, it's hard
it's hard. It's business and you know, it's,
it's in the end, you know, they own the thing,
you sign a contract, you know, but there is an agreement,
you know, there's an agreement that you make
with them as far as like, "I'll give you the best I have."
"I'll do - You're hiring me for a reason."
"'Cause I do this thing, you know. If a computer could do it,
I'm sure you wouldn't hire me.
But like, you know what I mean?
So, I think that that, in that way,
it's always important to respect the talent that you
that you get, you know,
and these filmmakers are gifted and, you know,
I would hope, I would love to see these other films,
you know,
get the director's cuts that their filmmakers want.
From a director's cut,
it's hard to imagine that you'd lose money
you know, from it, you know, because like, you know
there's a lot of - My movies for instance,
I forget the actual, like, the special edition of 'BvS,'
like my directors cut of 'BvS,'
which at the time they wouldn't let me call it
a director's cut
because they didn't want people to think
that the theatrical version wasn't my version.
- Right.
- But like that, that version of the movie drove
I think like 75 percent of the DVD purchases of the movie,
which was a thing that wouldn't exist, unless I said,
"Hey guys, let's make this, do this version of the movie."
- And not to mention it's like a reevaluation of the movie.
I feel like it's only grown in esteem.
Thanks to that cut of the film, frankly,
in the eyes of fans.
- 100 percent. Like, you can't, I mean, look
you can feel any way you want about
about 'BvS' of course, because it is what it, it's a movie.
But, I think in retrospect
that movie has gained a huge following, a massive cult,
like I could tell you, like, if you don't think
that -
And a lot of people would say, "That's not true."
Trust me, I see it every day.
Like, I wouldn't have, you know,
like, this movie wouldn't exist
unless that movie had the following that it does.