it may not even seem possible from time to time.
How do you have a peaceful joint custody arrangement.
I've got an expert to help us with that today.
Attorney and Child custody expert.
Sid Unrau is with us again.
Sid, you've been on a couple of episodes here with me.
-Yeah.
And it's very enjoyable.
-We have had a lot of traction on videos related to child custody becuase this is something
that happens a lot to really great families.
When there's a multiple household families, Sid, in your work as an attorney, what is
required to have a peaceful join custody arrangement?
-Well, one thing that I've noticed is that...
This might just seem really bizarre but I think I have a peaceful joint custody arrangement
with my own wife whom I'm married to.
-Okay, well I haven't thought about that angle.
-Yeah.
It's just sort of interesting.
One thing that my wife and I realized early on on our marriage and when we start having
kids is that we have different approaches to have to handle our kids.
-Of course, you do.
-We have different methods of discipline.
We have different methods of listening and carrying.
We have different methods of showing affection.
It's just a very interesting thing.
And so, I realized that in my divorcing clients, one of the things that they focus on that
my wife and I don't focus on is each other.
And they focus on sort of like, "I'm doing it right.
And the other person's doing it wrong."
But my wife and I came to focus on is the children.
And were focusing on the results.
So, what I try to get my clients to do is focus on the kids.
And I point this out to them when they're in the joint custody situation.
Especially when they come to me because there's some kind of a problem.
We analyze what the problem is but I always ask.
Who you focusing on?
Are you trying to get the other or you're trying to make things better?
Are you trying to make kids have a good outcome here?
And if they can focus on that, then that sort of changes the whole Idea of what to work
on.
-It gets us back to what's right instead of who's right.
-Right.
-And what's right is focusing on the kids.
-Right.
And then the next thing I've focused...
I try to get then to focus on is themselves.
They're always focused on what the other person is doing wrong.
Or what the other person should be doing.
Or something like that.
And I say, "Okay, You know what?
It's none of your business.
They're going to do what they're going to do.
And maybe you can invite them to do something different.
Or have a conference about it or whatever.
But focus on what you can do different.
Focus on what you can do better.
Focus on what you're influence is in this equation."
-Yes.
-I love that.
Because that's what my wife and I do in our own marriage.
I focus on what I'm good at.
She focuses on what she's good at.
And together, we create something.
And so, co-parenting, whether you're divorced or married really has to do with focusing
on the children first and focusing on yourself.
-One way I've talked about this with my clients, Sid.
Some of whom are the same clients you've had.
-Yeah.
-As you know.
-Yeah.
-Is to solve the problems in your own world.
And to understand that, if you think of the children having one world.
And then when mom and dad separate, it's like they're on now 2 worlds that are related but
very different.
And it's really easy for me over here in Dad's world to look over here at Mom's world.
Looking all the things that should change or that I don't like or that need to happen
differently.
Well, that's just frustrating.
And it didn't notice everybody else.
So, solve the problems in your own world and I guarantee you're going to find some.
And If you can't then listen to the other world saying.
And they'll help you.
-Exactly.
So, then the 3rd thing.
I think that we should focus on are the mechanics.
You're going to have to figure out who's going to give the right here.
Who's turn is it to do the transportation.
Who's going to show up, who's going to take the children to the school play?
Who's going to be there for the school play.
And those kinds of things.
Who's going to be there for parent teacher conferences?
Those kinds of things.
There needs to be some kinds of meeting of the minds to get the mechanics right.
Now, some parents just don't like to talk to each other after they're divorced but really
to focus on the children, you need to have some kind of idea of what the other person
can expect from you.
And what you can expect to the other person so you that you aren't leaving kids stranded.
This happened just recently from one of my client's situations.
I was talking to a client and all the sudden, she got a call.
She said, "Oh, Sid.
I have to take this."
It was the school.
She had forgotten it was turn to pick up the child from school.
She thought she made her appointment so that when her ex-husband was going to pick up the
child from school.
And this child was there for an hour-late longer than he should have been.
And that's just really a sad thing.
-So, we have to work out the mechanics.
The nuts and bolts.
You've also notice.
I'm sure, Sid.
Because you and I talked about this before.
That once you work it out, you have to have a certain level of flexibility.
-Oh, absolutely.
-If you get too rigid about it, you will encounter frustrations with this.
-And then it's easy to focus on the other parent again and say, "Oh, he just didn't
fulfill his..." whatever.
But the truth is things happen to all of us.
Flat tires happen.
Rain happens.
I mean, they're just all sorts of things that happen.
-Well, I'm thinking back to what you said earlier about how yo have a peaceful joint
custody arrangement with your wife.
-Yeah.
-To whom you are married.
-Yes!
-And with whom you reside.
-Exactly.
-And even there, things come up.
Things that are unexpected.
So, being flexible but still having an understanding of what my roles and responsibilities are.
When my responsibilities are going to show up for certain events or for responsibilities
related to the children.
So having a good understanding of that and agreement but then being flexible to shift
as things change.
-Exactly.
And being able to shift is an awesome thing.
The next suggestion I have is to seek to be fair.
And what I mean by that is when you're co-parenting, there're going to be times when you're going
to feel like you're keeping score.
And this happens with my wife and I too.
Sometimes....
Well, I took the kid to this place.
Or the one that comes up right now is, "I picked up our daughter from her work."
And my wife says, "Well, I'm just to busy to do it.
Can you do it again?"
And then I realized I'm keeping score.
This is not right.
Don't keep score.
But do be fair.
Now, in a co-parenting situation and in a divorce situation, there is some legal aspect
to it.
I mean, you can actually change the custody dynamic if you give and take too much.
If I have a client right now who now has custody of his child because the mother started off
giving him every weekend instead of every other week.
And the she started to give him every 3 days every weekend.
And she started off giving 4 days every weekend.
And pretty soon, he had to tell most of the time.
And he said, "Why am I paying the child's for and all this kind of stuff?"
And it's really interesting because when we brought that to her attention and when we
decided what we're going to do something about it legally and switch the dynamic legally
so that she's paying the child's support.
She was like, "What are you talking about?
I'm just being nice."
Well, they'd really never had the conversation about what was really going on.
And it was really costing him more money.
He was actually spending more time with his child.
He was actually cutting things out of his life so that he can spend more time with this
child-parenting which is something he wanted to do and chose to do.
But if you'd only had every other weekend than one evening a week like normal.
Which is unfortunately normal, I think.
But that's another topic.
But if you only had that then his plans for his life would be different.
It is good to be fair about things though.
If for example, there's a special family reunion and it happens to cover...
And this happens almost every summer.
It happens to cover the 4th of July or the 24th of July in Utah, where it's a big celebration
here.
Then it's okay to say, "Hey, can I have your Holiday even though it's your holiday and
you can have this other make up time?"
Things like that.
So, it's good to sort of coordinate, hold your own ground and yet make sure your being
fair about it.
And just not try to take advantage.
I think one think that is another idea of focusing on what the others is doing.
Instead of focusing on what you're doing.
And I like to have my clients focus on what would you think is fair?
A lot of times when a client comes to me and says, "I want to do this.
Do you think this is okay?"
I said, "Well, if it were the other way around and the other person wanted to do it, would
you think that's fair?"
And sometimes they're like, "Oh, I hadn't thought of that."
And...
-Because they're so absorbed in their own selfish desires at that point.
-Exactly.
So, just be fair-minded, I think that's very important.
And being fair-minded is good for the kids.
And again, that's focusing on the kids.
Also, always think about what the kid's perspective is.
If the kid is thinking, "Do I have to go spend all those time with all these old people again?"
For a family reunion, for example.
Sometimes, that's not the best parent time.
Because you're not really with them anyway.
You're trying to show them off to your family or whatever.
Don't get me wrong.
I think there's a time and a place for that as well.
I'm saying, sometimes looking at the kids perspective, getting their input is a good
idea.
Especially when they're older.
-And take a little time to think it through.
-Yeah.
-You know, it's surprising.
Maybe it doesn't surprise me after all that how much of this comes back to just being
a decent human being who takes the time to think things through.
And honestly, divorce brings out the worst in people.
-That's true.
-And you're not immune from that.
So, even though you're an awesome person, the dynamics that are inherit in a divorce
situation.
Especially when there's a custody issue involved bring out the worst in people.
So watch out for that.
Pause.
Do a little self check every so often.
To see if you're being a decent human being who's got compassion and empathy and a sense
of forgiveness in your heart.
Anyway, I can go off on a soapbox with that.
-I know.
me too.
-But I think it gets sumed up with...
Let's see what we can do to create and generate some peace.
To seek for that peace.
-Exactly.
And seeking for peace is excellent.
I just have one more thing I want to mention.
And that is as the kids get older...
And this is what my wife and I have done as well.
They know what they like to do with me.
And they know what they like to do with her.
-Right.
-I think it's okay...
It's not okay legally to have the kids be the communicators between the parents.
But it's simply okay for you to be the communicator with your own child and say, "Hey, what would
you like to do?"
Sometimes, we think that it's all about what I have to come up with and what I think it's
fair and what I'm doing in relation to the other parent...
-Or what my rights are.
-Yes.
Focusing on that.
But again, focusing on the children also includes getting their input.
And I think that's just a beautiful thing.
I didn't realize that my daughter loved go to out to dinner with me.
I mean, who wouldn't love to go out to dinner with me, right?
But some of my kids are like, "Oh, dad.
I like to go out to lunch or dinner with my friends."
But I have a daughter right now who every once in a while, we just go out to dinner.
Probably once or twice a month.
And she just really wants to enjoy it.
And I really enjoy it.
And I haven't had that with with some of my other kids.
It's just a sweet thing.
And I raised it with my wife.
I explained to my wife, "Hey, tonight, it's going to be Daddy-daughter night."
And of course, with my wife, I can usually arrange a time when she's doing something
else anyway.
And the same with co-parenting.
Usually you can find time to fit those things in.
And also that's just another point.
If you have multiple kids, it's still okay to focus on kid at a time sometimes.
I have one client who has 4 kids and he make sure one evening each month is devoted to
one of his 4 children.
-Just a one on one time?
-Exactly.
And I think that's beautiful.
And that's not...
You know, someone could say, "Well, he's not taking it all of his kids that one evening
a week."
Well, he's worked it out with his ex that he gets to have that time and it doesn't take
away from his other time.
He gets a little bit of extra time other times.
-And you don't have to be divorced to apply some of these principles?
So, co-parenting in a divorce is more difficult.
Because the divorce makes you focus on the divorce.
But the truth is we all co-parent who are parents.
And being a divorced person, if you can just keep your focus on the kids and on the same
things you would be focusing on.
If you're still married, you really have a lot more success.
-Sid is a great example of how experience and knowledge can really empower our lives.
You'll find Sid along with other Live On Purpose certified coaches at Liveonpurpose.coach.