-This is a physical manifestation of love. This is glorious and beautiful,
and any god which denies me for this I don't want to have a part of.
-On the left-hand side can I have my LGBT folks, on the right-hand side and I have my conservatives.
-"There are times when I feel uncomfortable expressing my views around sexuality."
-I am uncomfortable, primarily because the bromance of like, "Well, there's two girls. Who's the boy?"
And then it really just breaks the ice, 'cause there's like... there isn't supposed to be a boy.
That's why we're there. I do my best to break the ice with the comedic deflection, which I've learned is a...
self-defense mechanism, right?
-I come from a very conservative community. And so, you know, it just wasn't talked about.
The people I've had the most conversations with about are actually my family,
which is really weird because I came out to my parents because my dad was going to be
leading the protests at the pride festival that my boyfriend wanted me to go to.
-Wow. -So um...
-I'm a pastor as well. I'm also a community leader in Boyle Heights and in that community, there's a large
LGBTQ presence, so there's that fear of really coming out and saying what I believe,
because I do love everybody and I don't want to be pushed to the side just because I have a certain
feeling about, you know, any topic, really.
-I just wanted to say to you- and, you know, it's not the beliefs that sometimes I have a problem with or
I think people have a problem with in general. It's just like the actions from the belief
So like it's okay to have beliefs
but if we like can be loving in our beliefs and you know how our actions
Come from those beliefs and like I love that we're having this conversation
You know like trying to breach those like build a bridge
(Presenter): Some sins are worse than others
In the eyes of, you know, of the God, our worship, I believe that any sin
separates us from Him because He's holy and pure.
But at the same time I think there are certain sins that will have greater consequences
Yea I resonate with that. For me, it would be you know killing another human is the worst. That's it.
Also, it Venn diagrams into abortion. Taking the life of another is huge, is huge.
(Presenter): Can I ask you two this?
-Do you all see homosexuality as a sin? -Yes -and if so, where on that scale?
I don't think a homosexual tendency or an attraction to somebody of the same gender is a sin.
I think that's a natural feeling.
I think when you start engaging in a lifestyle
and you act upon that tendency, then, because it goes against what I believe God designed,
then I think that's clearly a sin.
I just don't believe in sin because I feel that sometimes being punitive about things can like
make you
repress things and like
Instinctually, I was like but not acting on them would be a sin like that's how it feels for me like being dishonest to myself
That feels wrong
(Presenter): At some point in my life I was taught that sex is wrong
I guess like within the context, you know sex that's outside the context of marriage
and so I guess that's how identified with the question
I had a very strong religious upbringing and
I ended up doing a lot of self-harm and I end up doing a lot of things just to try and cope with these
urges that
when I finally gave in to them, I mean this is
This is a physical manifestation of love. This is
Glorious and beautiful and any God which denies me for this? I don't want to have a part of
Because whatever this is I know for a fact to be a truth because it is the nature of love
Yeah, just responding to your story
It makes me sad to hear that
That you decided to hurt yourself
me too
Yeah, I still hold on to
What I believe are my beliefs
but at the same time I wish there was a better way for you to
Talk to someone and to process and to think through
Reconciling how you feel with like what you may have been taught or have read through Scripture
yeah, I mean and that's the thing is I think there's a lot of
There's a lot of cultural baggage I think around
Christianity that isn't necessarily inherently part of any biblical Christianity
Even though I grew up in a Christian family, I was--
I don't recall ever being told that sex was wrong or it was a bad thing
I think I grew up with the understanding that sex is a beautiful thing
it was given to us as a gift to enjoy. There's a place where it's
it's been designed for, a place where we can enjoy it.
And there's a place where it's detestable in the sight of the Creator.
The one who gave it to us.
I just don't like the idea that anything is really detestable. You know what I mean?
-So I just don't like the... -But wouldn't you say that even sex for you within certain context is testable?
Like, like...
-No because I don't... -Like if it's non-consensual?
-Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. -Like that's pretty detestable, right?
-So even in that context... -But the things that I consent to are I think not det...
Like that I have sometimes no control over if it's non-consensual
(Presenter): People should honor the pronouns others wish to be called
-oh, oh, oh -Hesitation's a no
I am all for this. Like, I identify as they.
People don't consider it and I think that, like, having these conversations about how people want to identify
It's like really important in a way that we can move things forward and stuff
Yeah, if you're like, 'Hey, if you don't use... whatever you're gonna get fined' or whatever like that's...
I'm not a big fan of that.
No these are conversations between us though, right?
-Like yeah. -But otherwise it's just being respectful.
Oh, the pronoun police *laughter*
So for me I never correct people because many times people do confuse me as "sir." I don't--it doesn't faze me.
However, I'm born in a female body. I'm a "she"
There are times where my girlfriend's have said 'oh my boyfriend,' this and that
just because of their comfort zone they don't want to have to deal with the whole like social stigma
So you're comfortable with them presenting you as a male
-when... -It doesn't faze me
-Really? -It doesn't faze me at all because my identity and my expressions are masculine
and I've come to the terms and the realization that
I don't need to chop up my body into different pieces to fit in the social little box that is "man"
If you want to address me you can address me as "he" or "she" or "them"
or "girl," 'Becky with the good hair,' or "Beck" *laughter*
As long as the term is respectful, I will take it
I mean I step back just because it's a complicated topic.
Because with language--language is powerful
And so when somebody who I would consider a female wants to be called a male
I would want to probably respect that but I still firmly believe that, you know, they're--
God created there to be man and a woman and umm--
I would like to sit down and talk to that person in depth before leaning one way or the other. Yeah.
But I think like focusing more on like building a relationship instead of just like grilling someone
'Why do you feel--' you know what I mean?
-Like just trying to connect-- -'What's wrong with you? Like why don't you--?' *laughter*
-Just kidding. -Like yeah. Let me sit down and-- *laughter*
-Dissect you like a-- -So you are like a pronoun police *laughter*
(Presenter): America is heading in the right direction when it comes to inclusion and diversity
For me its more like the youth are headed in like inclusion and diversity and I wouldn't necessarily say it's
the institutions of power I think the youth are really moving our culture forward and like it's encouraging to see
Now I can't imagine what it's like to not be able to be who I am and having to hide
so I think it's good in that sense that people finally are living in a world where I can be who I am
and I don't have to be ostracized and I can be included
and the reason why I didn't step in is because
you know, I have certain values that I think are from God
And so that's why I hesitated a little bit on do I come forward or not?
Well, I have a question because I, you know
I'm curious where the sanctity if your marriage comes in
Like if you can only get married to one because you and God and that woman have a relationship
that is perfect for you, I'm curious how that affects
uhh...
who we can marry? -Yeah
I don't think the job of a Christian for example is to get people to behave in a certain
moral way that's in line with what the Bible says. I wouldn't be one to say
'You can't marry. You can't marry another guy,' or 'you can't marry another girl'
I would say first of all God loves you, you know, God loves you.
Yeah, so specifically talking about like prop 8
When prop 8 came out I was completely against it
I thought it was foolish and and quite ignorant and by many churches supporting prop 8
We basically tell you--told the gay community that we don't care about you. We don't care about
how you feel, what you think love is
We're just gonna mandate that you can't marry who you say you want to marry
We're adversaries
Yeah, we became adversaries and the church
I think lost a great position and saying and coming to people saying like we love you
(Presenter): People should have the right to have sex with anyone they want
Anyone?
Okay, yeah, alright. -Consensually, right? Consensually? *laughter*
With anyone?
Okay. Yes in the term anyone except children
-Yeah -As humans we--and as creatures of a divine spirit
We have the right to follow our instincts and our sexual urges without punishing ourselves
for you know wanting a woman or wanting a man and
So yeah. Anyone has a right to
consensual
love making
So the reason why I step back and I--you guys would agree with me--but
When I was 9 years old, I was touched by a family member
And so
You know that's--I can't step forward when and that question is asked
And I know you guys wouldn't agree with that
And that's you preferenced at the very beginning that you know, if at long it's consensual and not kids
but that was my experience and
Yep
Sorry about that.
I resonate with as well. I mean I was as well, you know, and there wasn't a family member. Thank God, however still
Enough of a tumultuous problem that even when I came out as a lesbian
I wondered if it had to do with that instant and definitely
brought up and that's why it was the first thing that I said, you know because
You know one is innocent and doesn't know
Absolutely.
(Presenter): I believe in a higher power
I'd love to hear from your perspective of why you believe in a higher power?
I mean the household I was raised in. Why not?
the analogy of like you can't--one cannot see love one cannot see air and it's still there and you know I started going to
more
clergymen and
Wanting to understand exactly, you know my ways of being in the image of a greater creator understanding I wasn't a mistake
You know, you know there is a higher source
There's definitely something that has given me these blessings that have nothing to do with me
It has everything to do with a bigger picture of things
I think for me, you know
I was also raised in a very strong religious background and just as I cannot deny this part of me
that this is the way I express love I'd be dishonest if I said that when I sat down and I prayed and I listened
I didn't hear
Oh no! it's time for the heathen *laughter*
No, no. You have to stop. You are no mistake.
I resonate with some of the things you said too. Like, I do believe in a higher power
I just don't believe in like a typical higher power and I also like
Highly believe in science. So I'm like, I believe in gravity as a higher power
I believe in like entropy as a--you know
like things that we that are out of our control and stuff
and I want to always keep searching and always keep questioning and like
Always trying to find like as much love as possible, I guess
And I believe in other people's gods, too
Like I believe in that for y'all, you know what I mean?
like if that's what makes you a better person and makes you
feel more yourself and feel more loved like I believe in that, you know
But I can't say that I believe it for myself because I don't know
I don't want to cast all my eggs in one basket
(Presenter): Guys, thank you friends. Thank you.
I appreciate it. *laughter*
Thank you! *laughter*
(inaudible)
Hey guys, this is Jason from Jubilee here. We hope you enjoyed another episode of Middle Ground
We'd love to hear from you in the comments below. Let us know what you thought about the episode
Let us know what you thought about the issue and whether there was someone who changed your opinion
or if there's something that you agreed with or disagreed with
We'd love to have a great discussion with you in the comments.
As always make sure you click here to subscribe
click here for more videos. We will see you guys next time.