>>> WELCOME BACK.
>>> WELCOME BACK. THE WHITE HOUSE CONTINUES ITS
>>> WELCOME BACK. THE WHITE HOUSE CONTINUES ITS FOCUS ON PROVIDING UKRAINE
THE WHITE HOUSE CONTINUES ITS FOCUS ON PROVIDING UKRAINE WOULD SUPPORT IT NEEDS IN ITS
FOCUS ON PROVIDING UKRAINE WOULD SUPPORT IT NEEDS IN ITS WAR AGAINST RUSSIA.
WOULD SUPPORT IT NEEDS IN ITS WAR AGAINST RUSSIA. PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL TURN ITS
WAR AGAINST RUSSIA. PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL TURN ITS ATTENTION TO ANOTHER REGION
PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL TURN ITS ATTENTION TO ANOTHER REGION TODAY WITH HIS OWN SECURITY
ATTENTION TO ANOTHER REGION TODAY WITH HIS OWN SECURITY CONCERNS IT IS SOUTHEAST ASIA.
TODAY WITH HIS OWN SECURITY CONCERNS IT IS SOUTHEAST ASIA. RESIDENT WILL HOST SOUTHEAST
CONCERNS IT IS SOUTHEAST ASIA. RESIDENT WILL HOST SOUTHEAST ASIAN LEADERS AT THE WHITE
RESIDENT WILL HOST SOUTHEAST ASIAN LEADERS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AT THE U.S. SEEKS TO
ASIAN LEADERS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AT THE U.S. SEEKS TO ASSURE OUR ALLIES IN THAT
HOUSE AT THE U.S. SEEKS TO ASSURE OUR ALLIES IN THAT REGION THAT IT IS COMMITTED TO
ASSURE OUR ALLIES IN THAT REGION THAT IT IS COMMITTED TO THEIR SECURITY AMID A LOOMING
REGION THAT IT IS COMMITTED TO THEIR SECURITY AMID A LOOMING THREAT FROM CHINA.
THEIR SECURITY AMID A LOOMING THREAT FROM CHINA. THE TIMING OF THIS MEETING
THREAT FROM CHINA. THE TIMING OF THIS MEETING HAPPENS TO COME AS OUR LATEST
THE TIMING OF THIS MEETING HAPPENS TO COME AS OUR LATEST EPISODE OF "MEET THE PRESS
HAPPENS TO COME AS OUR LATEST EPISODE OF "MEET THE PRESS REPORTS" TAKES YOU SOMEWHERE
EPISODE OF "MEET THE PRESS REPORTS" TAKES YOU SOMEWHERE NEVER SEEN ON CAMERA, FULL
REPORTS" TAKES YOU SOMEWHERE NEVER SEEN ON CAMERA, FULL WARGAME EXERCISE THAT IMAGINES
NEVER SEEN ON CAMERA, FULL WARGAME EXERCISE THAT IMAGINES HOW AMERICA WOULD REACT TO A
WARGAME EXERCISE THAT IMAGINES HOW AMERICA WOULD REACT TO A CHINESE ATTEMPT AT ESSENTIALLY
HOW AMERICA WOULD REACT TO A CHINESE ATTEMPT AT ESSENTIALLY INVADING AND TAKING TAIWAN.
CHINESE ATTEMPT AT ESSENTIALLY INVADING AND TAKING TAIWAN. HERE IS A SNEAK PEAK.
INVADING AND TAKING TAIWAN. HERE IS A SNEAK PEAK. >> AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP,
HERE IS A SNEAK PEAK. >> AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP, IT'S A VERY LARGE CONCENTRATION
>> AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP, IT'S A VERY LARGE CONCENTRATION OF CHINESE PEOPLE LIBERATION
IT'S A VERY LARGE CONCENTRATION OF CHINESE PEOPLE LIBERATION ARMY FORCES AND POTENTIAL PORTS
OF CHINESE PEOPLE LIBERATION ARMY FORCES AND POTENTIAL PORTS OF DEMARCATION FOR AN INVASION.
ARMY FORCES AND POTENTIAL PORTS OF DEMARCATION FOR AN INVASION. >> WE WANT TO FOCUS ON A LAST-
OF DEMARCATION FOR AN INVASION. >> WE WANT TO FOCUS ON A LAST- DITCH EFFORT TO DETER TO SEND
>> WE WANT TO FOCUS ON A LAST- DITCH EFFORT TO DETER TO SEND THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE MESSAGE
DITCH EFFORT TO DETER TO SEND THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE MESSAGE TO BEIJING PRIVATELY AND
THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE MESSAGE TO BEIJING PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY THAT THERE WILL BE
TO BEIJING PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY THAT THERE WILL BE SEVERE COST IF THEY ACTUALLY GO
PUBLICLY THAT THERE WILL BE SEVERE COST IF THEY ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH THIS.
SEVERE COST IF THEY ACTUALLY GO THROUGH WITH THIS. >>'S CHINA HAS SEEN OUR
THROUGH WITH THIS. >>'S CHINA HAS SEEN OUR REACTION TO UKRAINE, AND WE
>>'S CHINA HAS SEEN OUR REACTION TO UKRAINE, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
REACTION TO UKRAINE, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SURPRISING THEM WITH HOW WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SURPRISING THEM WITH HOW WE REACT HERE HERE
SURPRISING THEM WITH HOW WE REACT HERE HERE >> HIT THE AMERICANS AS HARD AS
REACT HERE HERE >> HIT THE AMERICANS AS HARD AS THEY CAN IN EASTERN IHL, KEEP
>> HIT THE AMERICANS AS HARD AS THEY CAN IN EASTERN IHL, KEEP THEM OUT OF THE FIGHT IN TAIWAN.
THEY CAN IN EASTERN IHL, KEEP THEM OUT OF THE FIGHT IN TAIWAN. >> WE START FORCEFULLY WITH THE
THEM OUT OF THE FIGHT IN TAIWAN. >> WE START FORCEFULLY WITH THE MISSILE BOMBARDMENT IN TAIWAN.
>> WE START FORCEFULLY WITH THE MISSILE BOMBARDMENT IN TAIWAN. >> ALL RIGHT, STACY, HIGH-LEVEL
MISSILE BOMBARDMENT IN TAIWAN. >> ALL RIGHT, STACY, HIGH-LEVEL HERE.
>> ALL RIGHT, STACY, HIGH-LEVEL HERE. WHAT JUST HAPPENED WITH AND
HERE. WHAT JUST HAPPENED WITH AND MOVE ONE?
WHAT JUST HAPPENED WITH AND MOVE ONE? >> CHINA INVADED TAIWAN.
MOVE ONE? >> CHINA INVADED TAIWAN. AND BEGAN ATTACKING TAIWAN'S
>> CHINA INVADED TAIWAN. AND BEGAN ATTACKING TAIWAN'S OUTLYING ISLAND AND THE
AND BEGAN ATTACKING TAIWAN'S OUTLYING ISLAND AND THE MAINLAND, THEN FOLLOWED IT WITH
OUTLYING ISLAND AND THE MAINLAND, THEN FOLLOWED IT WITH A LARGE AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE
MAINLAND, THEN FOLLOWED IT WITH A LARGE AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE ON TAIWAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN
A LARGE AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE ON TAIWAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN JAPAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN GUAM
ON TAIWAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN JAPAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN GUAM AND THE NORTHERN MARIANNE IS,
JAPAN AND ON U.S. BASES IN GUAM AND THE NORTHERN MARIANNE IS, AND WE'RE RESPONDING TO THAT
AND THE NORTHERN MARIANNE IS, AND WE'RE RESPONDING TO THAT WITH THE UNITED STATES
AND WE'RE RESPONDING TO THAT WITH THE UNITED STATES FOLLOWING UP WITH BOMBER
WITH THE UNITED STATES FOLLOWING UP WITH BOMBER ATTACKS ON U.S. SHIPS, CHINESE
FOLLOWING UP WITH BOMBER ATTACKS ON U.S. SHIPS, CHINESE SHIPS AND PORTS, AND THERE WAS
ATTACKS ON U.S. SHIPS, CHINESE SHIPS AND PORTS, AND THERE WAS AN AIR BATTLE OVER TAIWAN WHERE
SHIPS AND PORTS, AND THERE WAS AN AIR BATTLE OVER TAIWAN WHERE AMERICAN AIRCRAFT FLYING FROM
AN AIR BATTLE OVER TAIWAN WHERE AMERICAN AIRCRAFT FLYING FROM THE PHILIPPINES CAME IN AND
AMERICAN AIRCRAFT FLYING FROM THE PHILIPPINES CAME IN AND ENGAGED IN COMBAT WITH CHINESE
THE PHILIPPINES CAME IN AND ENGAGED IN COMBAT WITH CHINESE AIRCRAFT THAT WERE TRYING TO
ENGAGED IN COMBAT WITH CHINESE AIRCRAFT THAT WERE TRYING TO BOMB TAIWAN.
AIRCRAFT THAT WERE TRYING TO BOMB TAIWAN. >> AFTER MOVE ONE, CAN YOU
BOMB TAIWAN. >> AFTER MOVE ONE, CAN YOU ASSESS WHICH TEAM IS WINNING?
>> AFTER MOVE ONE, CAN YOU ASSESS WHICH TEAM IS WINNING? >> I THINK IT IS A STALEMATE
ASSESS WHICH TEAM IS WINNING? >> I THINK IT IS A STALEMATE RIGHT NOW.
>> I THINK IT IS A STALEMATE RIGHT NOW. CHINA HAS STRATEGICALLY BLOTTED
RIGHT NOW. CHINA HAS STRATEGICALLY BLOTTED BY PULLING JAPAN IN, AND THE
CHINA HAS STRATEGICALLY BLOTTED BY PULLING JAPAN IN, AND THE UNITED STATES IS STILL WELL-
BY PULLING JAPAN IN, AND THE UNITED STATES IS STILL WELL- POSITIONED TO DEFEND, BUT CHINA
UNITED STATES IS STILL WELL- POSITIONED TO DEFEND, BUT CHINA ALSO HAS A LOT OF ITS ASSETS
POSITIONED TO DEFEND, BUT CHINA ALSO HAS A LOT OF ITS ASSETS LEFT AND HAS A LOT OF POWER
ALSO HAS A LOT OF ITS ASSETS LEFT AND HAS A LOT OF POWER THAT IT CAN APPLY.
LEFT AND HAS A LOT OF POWER THAT IT CAN APPLY. >> JOINING ME NOW ONSET IS MY
THAT IT CAN APPLY. >> JOINING ME NOW ONSET IS MY COLLEAGUE, NBC NEWS
>> JOINING ME NOW ONSET IS MY COLLEAGUE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT CAROL LEE.
COLLEAGUE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT CAROL LEE. THE MAN WHO HELPED US PUT
CORRESPONDENT CAROL LEE. THE MAN WHO HELPED US PUT TOGETHER THIS, THIS PARTNERSHIP
THE MAN WHO HELPED US PUT TOGETHER THIS, THIS PARTNERSHIP WITH CNAS . CAROL, TAKE US INTO
TOGETHER THIS, THIS PARTNERSHIP WITH CNAS . CAROL, TAKE US INTO THE YEARS 2027.
WITH CNAS . CAROL, TAKE US INTO THE YEARS 2027. IS A PRETEXT THAT GOT US TO THE
THE YEARS 2027. IS A PRETEXT THAT GOT US TO THE POINT WHERE CHINA AND THE
IS A PRETEXT THAT GOT US TO THE POINT WHERE CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES ENDED UP ENGAGING
POINT WHERE CHINA AND THE UNITED STATES ENDED UP ENGAGING . A
UNITED STATES ENDED UP ENGAGING . A >> EXACTLY, AND CHUCK, THE
. A >> EXACTLY, AND CHUCK, THE THING SO STRIKING ABOUT THE
>> EXACTLY, AND CHUCK, THE THING SO STRIKING ABOUT THE WARGAME IS HOW SIGNIFICANTLY IT
THING SO STRIKING ABOUT THE WARGAME IS HOW SIGNIFICANTLY IT ESCALATED SO QUICKLY.
WARGAME IS HOW SIGNIFICANTLY IT ESCALATED SO QUICKLY. >>, THIS IS OVER A SEVEN-DAY
ESCALATED SO QUICKLY. >>, THIS IS OVER A SEVEN-DAY PERIOD.
>>, THIS IS OVER A SEVEN-DAY PERIOD. >> THE WAY EACH TEAM DECIDED TO
PERIOD. >> THE WAY EACH TEAM DECIDED TO APPROACH . AS YOU HEARD TALKING
>> THE WAY EACH TEAM DECIDED TO APPROACH . AS YOU HEARD TALKING ABOUT DETERRENCE AND SENDING
APPROACH . AS YOU HEARD TALKING ABOUT DETERRENCE AND SENDING THE STRONGEST MESSAGE POSSIBLE.
ABOUT DETERRENCE AND SENDING THE STRONGEST MESSAGE POSSIBLE. NONE OF THAT WORKED WITH
THE STRONGEST MESSAGE POSSIBLE. NONE OF THAT WORKED WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA AND ALSO DID
NONE OF THAT WORKED WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA AND ALSO DID NOT WORK HERE, AND THE
UKRAINE AND RUSSIA AND ALSO DID NOT WORK HERE, AND THE PARALLELS THAT ARE THERE
NOT WORK HERE, AND THE PARALLELS THAT ARE THERE BETWEEN THE BATTLE IN UKRAINE
PARALLELS THAT ARE THERE BETWEEN THE BATTLE IN UKRAINE AND THE WARGAME ON TAIWAN ARE
BETWEEN THE BATTLE IN UKRAINE AND THE WARGAME ON TAIWAN ARE REALLY STRIKING, AND SO I THINK
AND THE WARGAME ON TAIWAN ARE REALLY STRIKING, AND SO I THINK IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING
REALLY STRIKING, AND SO I THINK IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING EXERCISE IN THE SENSE THAT IT
IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING EXERCISE IN THE SENSE THAT IT SHOWED THAT IT WOULD BE A
EXERCISE IN THE SENSE THAT IT SHOWED THAT IT WOULD BE A STALEMATE. HOW EASILY COULD
SHOWED THAT IT WOULD BE A STALEMATE. HOW EASILY COULD THE U.S. GET DRAWN INTO
STALEMATE. HOW EASILY COULD THE U.S. GET DRAWN INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, DIRECT
THE U.S. GET DRAWN INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, DIRECT CONFLICT WITH CHINA, AND JUST
SOMETHING LIKE THIS, DIRECT CONFLICT WITH CHINA, AND JUST IN THE REGION, YOU TALK ABOUT
CONFLICT WITH CHINA, AND JUST IN THE REGION, YOU TALK ABOUT WORLD WAR III , SO THAT WAS
IN THE REGION, YOU TALK ABOUT WORLD WAR III , SO THAT WAS FASCINATING.
WORLD WAR III , SO THAT WAS FASCINATING. >> IT WAS.
FASCINATING. >> IT WAS. ADMIRAL, THE BIG LESSON I TOOK
>> IT WAS. ADMIRAL, THE BIG LESSON I TOOK OUT OF IT AND THE LESSON AND IF
ADMIRAL, THE BIG LESSON I TOOK OUT OF IT AND THE LESSON AND IF WE HAD TWO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS,
OUT OF IT AND THE LESSON AND IF WE HAD TWO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, BOTH IN THE ARMED SERVICES,
WE HAD TWO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, BOTH IN THE ARMED SERVICES, BOTH VETERANS, SO THEY REALLY
BOTH IN THE ARMED SERVICES, BOTH VETERANS, SO THEY REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE CONCEPT, BUT
BOTH VETERANS, SO THEY REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE CONCEPT, BUT THEY WERE STRUCK AND I WAS
UNDERSTOOD THE CONCEPT, BUT THEY WERE STRUCK AND I WAS STRUCK BY, BOY, THIS WOULD BE A
THEY WERE STRUCK AND I WAS STRUCK BY, BOY, THIS WOULD BE A LOT HARDER THAN REARMING
STRUCK BY, BOY, THIS WOULD BE A LOT HARDER THAN REARMING UKRAINE.
LOT HARDER THAN REARMING UKRAINE. THIS IS A LOT HARDER WHEN YOU
UKRAINE. THIS IS A LOT HARDER WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A NATO.
THIS IS A LOT HARDER WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A NATO. AND NATO IN ASIA.
DON'T HAVE A NATO. AND NATO IN ASIA. THAT WAS THE BIG TAKE AWAY I
AND NATO IN ASIA. THAT WAS THE BIG TAKE AWAY I HAD FROM THIS.
THAT WAS THE BIG TAKE AWAY I HAD FROM THIS. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THESE
HAD FROM THIS. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THESE EXERCISES OVER THE YEARS?
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THESE EXERCISES OVER THE YEARS? >> I'VE DONE MANY OF THEM,
EXERCISES OVER THE YEARS? >> I'VE DONE MANY OF THEM, CHUCK.
>> I'VE DONE MANY OF THEM, CHUCK. THIS IS SOMETHING THE U.S.
CHUCK. THIS IS SOMETHING THE U.S. FLUSH INTO PACIFIC COMMAND DOES
THIS IS SOMETHING THE U.S. FLUSH INTO PACIFIC COMMAND DOES CONSTANTLY, ALWAYS UPDATING,
FLUSH INTO PACIFIC COMMAND DOES CONSTANTLY, ALWAYS UPDATING, AND CAROL LEE IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
CONSTANTLY, ALWAYS UPDATING, AND CAROL LEE IS EXACTLY RIGHT. CURRENTLY DRAWING THE LESSONS
AND CAROL LEE IS EXACTLY RIGHT. CURRENTLY DRAWING THE LESSONS OUT OF THE UKRAINIAN CONFLICT.
CURRENTLY DRAWING THE LESSONS OUT OF THE UKRAINIAN CONFLICT. TWO POINTS REALLY JUMPED OUT AT
OUT OF THE UKRAINIAN CONFLICT. TWO POINTS REALLY JUMPED OUT AT ME.
TWO POINTS REALLY JUMPED OUT AT ME. ONE IS THE TECHNICAL LEVEL OF
ME. ONE IS THE TECHNICAL LEVEL OF THIS, IN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO
ONE IS THE TECHNICAL LEVEL OF THIS, IN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AS OPPOSED TO UKRAINE.
THIS, IN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AS OPPOSED TO UKRAINE. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WILL BE
SEE AS OPPOSED TO UKRAINE. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WILL BE MARITIME, AIR ON AIR. IT'S
IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WILL BE MARITIME, AIR ON AIR. IT'S GOING TO BE CYBER GOING IN THE
MARITIME, AIR ON AIR. IT'S GOING TO BE CYBER GOING IN THE BACKGROUND, WHICH IS CERTAINLY
GOING TO BE CYBER GOING IN THE BACKGROUND, WHICH IS CERTAINLY PART OF THE CONFLICT, SO IT'S
BACKGROUND, WHICH IS CERTAINLY PART OF THE CONFLICT, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY
PART OF THE CONFLICT, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY TECHNOLOGICAL PLAY.
GOING TO BE A VERY TECHNOLOGICAL PLAY. AND THEN SECONDLY, CHUCK, IT'S
TECHNOLOGICAL PLAY. AND THEN SECONDLY, CHUCK, IT'S LEADERSHIP IT'S GOING TO MATTER
AND THEN SECONDLY, CHUCK, IT'S LEADERSHIP IT'S GOING TO MATTER HERE, THAT IS A HARD ONE TO
LEADERSHIP IT'S GOING TO MATTER HERE, THAT IS A HARD ONE TO ASSESS.
HERE, THAT IS A HARD ONE TO ASSESS. JUST AS WE BLEW IT ON
ASSESS. JUST AS WE BLEW IT ON AFGHANISTAN, TAKING THE AFGHANS
JUST AS WE BLEW IT ON AFGHANISTAN, TAKING THE AFGHANS IN THE FIGHT AND BLEW IT ON
AFGHANISTAN, TAKING THE AFGHANS IN THE FIGHT AND BLEW IT ON UKRAINE, THINKING THE
IN THE FIGHT AND BLEW IT ON UKRAINE, THINKING THE UKRAINIANS WERE GOING TO FOLD,
UKRAINE, THINKING THE UKRAINIANS WERE GOING TO FOLD, WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS ONE
UKRAINIANS WERE GOING TO FOLD, WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS ONE RIGHT, SO I THINK A SUBTEXT FOR
WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS ONE RIGHT, SO I THINK A SUBTEXT FOR ME THAT I AM LOOKING AT IS WHAT
RIGHT, SO I THINK A SUBTEXT FOR ME THAT I AM LOOKING AT IS WHAT IS THE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND WILL
ME THAT I AM LOOKING AT IS WHAT IS THE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND WILL OF THE TAIWANESE?
IS THE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND WILL OF THE TAIWANESE? THAT IS GOING TO BE THE
OF THE TAIWANESE? THAT IS GOING TO BE THE DETERMINANT HERE.
THAT IS GOING TO BE THE DETERMINANT HERE. >> IF I WERE TO SAY THAT THE
DETERMINANT HERE. >> IF I WERE TO SAY THAT THE BIGGEST QUESTION I HAVE IN MY
>> IF I WERE TO SAY THAT THE BIGGEST QUESTION I HAVE IN MY HEAD THROUGH THIS WHOLE
BIGGEST QUESTION I HAVE IN MY HEAD THROUGH THIS WHOLE EXERCISE IS -- AND THE HARDEST
HEAD THROUGH THIS WHOLE EXERCISE IS -- AND THE HARDEST PART OF THIS EXERCISE IS
EXERCISE IS -- AND THE HARDEST PART OF THIS EXERCISE IS PUTTING OURSELVES INTO THE
PART OF THIS EXERCISE IS PUTTING OURSELVES INTO THE CHINESE RING, OKAY?
PUTTING OURSELVES INTO THE CHINESE RING, OKAY? THE STRATEGIC MIND-SET OF THE
CHINESE RING, OKAY? THE STRATEGIC MIND-SET OF THE CHINESE.
THE STRATEGIC MIND-SET OF THE CHINESE. LOOK, THIS WAS A HIGHLY
CHINESE. LOOK, THIS WAS A HIGHLY EXPERIENCED CHINESE EXPERTS
LOOK, THIS WAS A HIGHLY EXPERIENCED CHINESE EXPERTS THAT WE HAD RUNNING THE RED
EXPERIENCED CHINESE EXPERTS THAT WE HAD RUNNING THE RED TEAM.
THAT WE HAD RUNNING THE RED TEAM. ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS
TEAM. ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS STILL A WESTERN BIAS THAT IS IN
ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS STILL A WESTERN BIAS THAT IS IN ANY WESTERN EDUCATED PERSON'S
STILL A WESTERN BIAS THAT IS IN ANY WESTERN EDUCATED PERSON'S HEAD HERE, AND I THINK THAT IS
ANY WESTERN EDUCATED PERSON'S HEAD HERE, AND I THINK THAT IS THE HARD PART.
HEAD HERE, AND I THINK THAT IS THE HARD PART. WE ASSUME THAT CHINA WOULD BE,
THE HARD PART. WE ASSUME THAT CHINA WOULD BE, "OKAY, THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING
WE ASSUME THAT CHINA WOULD BE, "OKAY, THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THE PAN OUT," AND IT'S
"OKAY, THIS IS HOW WE'RE GOING TO KEEP THE PAN OUT," AND IT'S LIKE ALL THAT DID WAS DRAW
TO KEEP THE PAN OUT," AND IT'S LIKE ALL THAT DID WAS DRAW JAPAN IN.
LIKE ALL THAT DID WAS DRAW JAPAN IN. I IMAGINE THAT'S THE HARDEST
JAPAN IN. I IMAGINE THAT'S THE HARDEST PART HERE.
I IMAGINE THAT'S THE HARDEST PART HERE. WHAT IS IN XI JINPING'S HEAD,
PART HERE. WHAT IS IN XI JINPING'S HEAD, WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE CHINESE
WHAT IS IN XI JINPING'S HEAD, WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE CHINESE MILITARY?
WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE CHINESE MILITARY? >> LET'S START WITH PRESIDENTS
MILITARY? >> LET'S START WITH PRESIDENTS XI HIMSELF.
>> LET'S START WITH PRESIDENTS XI HIMSELF. HE IS A PATIENT FIGURE, AND
XI HIMSELF. HE IS A PATIENT FIGURE, AND THAT IS ALSO OF A PIECE WITH
HE IS A PATIENT FIGURE, AND THAT IS ALSO OF A PIECE WITH CHINA IN GENERAL.
THAT IS ALSO OF A PIECE WITH CHINA IN GENERAL. AS OPPOSED TO THAT KIND OF
CHINA IN GENERAL. AS OPPOSED TO THAT KIND OF IMPULSIVE ACTIVITY THAT YOU SEE
AS OPPOSED TO THAT KIND OF IMPULSIVE ACTIVITY THAT YOU SEE OUT OF VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE
IMPULSIVE ACTIVITY THAT YOU SEE OUT OF VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE CHINESE ARE PATIENT, AND SUN
OUT OF VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE CHINESE ARE PATIENT, AND SUN ZHU IS THE GREATEST MILITARY
CHINESE ARE PATIENT, AND SUN ZHU IS THE GREATEST MILITARY STRATEGIST, AND PULLING OUT HIS
ZHU IS THE GREATEST MILITARY STRATEGIST, AND PULLING OUT HIS VERY SLIM BUT BRILLIANT VOLUME,
STRATEGIST, AND PULLING OUT HIS VERY SLIM BUT BRILLIANT VOLUME, "THE ART OF WAR, IS WELL WORTH
VERY SLIM BUT BRILLIANT VOLUME, "THE ART OF WAR, IS WELL WORTH DOING FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO
"THE ART OF WAR, IS WELL WORTH DOING FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO UNDERSTAND THE MIND OF THE
DOING FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO UNDERSTAND THE MIND OF THE CHINESE MILITARY.
UNDERSTAND THE MIND OF THE CHINESE MILITARY. WHAT I WILL SAY, CHUCK, IS IF
CHINESE MILITARY. WHAT I WILL SAY, CHUCK, IS IF YOU DIVE IN, IT IS ALL ABOUT
WHAT I WILL SAY, CHUCK, IS IF YOU DIVE IN, IT IS ALL ABOUT DECEPTION.
YOU DIVE IN, IT IS ALL ABOUT DECEPTION. THE BEST BATTLE IS THE ONE YOU
DECEPTION. THE BEST BATTLE IS THE ONE YOU NEVER ACTUALLY FIGHT BECAUSE
THE BEST BATTLE IS THE ONE YOU NEVER ACTUALLY FIGHT BECAUSE YOU SURPRISED YOUR ENEMY, BUT
NEVER ACTUALLY FIGHT BECAUSE YOU SURPRISED YOUR ENEMY, BUT SUN TZU ALSO SAYS -- AND IT'S
YOU SURPRISED YOUR ENEMY, BUT SUN TZU ALSO SAYS -- AND IT'S WORTH KNOWING THIS.
SUN TZU ALSO SAYS -- AND IT'S WORTH KNOWING THIS. FIGHT.
WORTH KNOWING THIS. FIGHT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS SHOT
FIGHT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS SHOT THROUGH CHINA THINKING ABOUT
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS SHOT THROUGH CHINA THINKING ABOUT MILITARY.
THROUGH CHINA THINKING ABOUT MILITARY. I THOUGHT THE FIRST MOVE, AS
MILITARY. I THOUGHT THE FIRST MOVE, AS YOU GAVE US A SNAPSHOT THERE,
I THOUGHT THE FIRST MOVE, AS YOU GAVE US A SNAPSHOT THERE, MADE A LOT OF SENSE WITH THE
YOU GAVE US A SNAPSHOT THERE, MADE A LOT OF SENSE WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION . MY EYEBROWS
MADE A LOT OF SENSE WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION . MY EYEBROWS WENT UP SIGNIFICANTLY WITH
ONE EXCEPTION . MY EYEBROWS WENT UP SIGNIFICANTLY WITH CHINA IMMEDIATELY STRIKING
WENT UP SIGNIFICANTLY WITH CHINA IMMEDIATELY STRIKING THOSE BASES, INSTANTLY DRAWING
CHINA IMMEDIATELY STRIKING THOSE BASES, INSTANTLY DRAWING THE UNITED STATES INTO WAR.
THOSE BASES, INSTANTLY DRAWING THE UNITED STATES INTO WAR. I THINK THEY MIGHT TAKE A MORE
THE UNITED STATES INTO WAR. I THINK THEY MIGHT TAKE A MORE PATIENT APPROACH , BUT IF YOU
I THINK THEY MIGHT TAKE A MORE PATIENT APPROACH , BUT IF YOU WANT TO KICK OFF A WARGAME AND
PATIENT APPROACH , BUT IF YOU WANT TO KICK OFF A WARGAME AND MOVE IT FAST, THERE'S NOTHING
WANT TO KICK OFF A WARGAME AND MOVE IT FAST, THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A STRIKE.
MOVE IT FAST, THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A STRIKE. >> THE ONE OTHER THING, CAROL,
LIKE A STRIKE. >> THE ONE OTHER THING, CAROL, I CAME AWAY WITH HERE IS WITH
>> THE ONE OTHER THING, CAROL, I CAME AWAY WITH HERE IS WITH WATER, IT'S HARDER.
I CAME AWAY WITH HERE IS WITH WATER, IT'S HARDER. THAT 19 MILES MAY ONLY BE 90
WATER, IT'S HARDER. THAT 19 MILES MAY ONLY BE 90 MILES, BUT THAT'S A BIG
THAT 19 MILES MAY ONLY BE 90 MILES, BUT THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
MILES, BUT THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE HERE,
DIFFERENCE. THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE HERE, AND I'M CURIOUS IF YOU GOT THIS
THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE HERE, AND I'M CURIOUS IF YOU GOT THIS IN ANY OF YOUR REPORTING.
AND I'M CURIOUS IF YOU GOT THIS IN ANY OF YOUR REPORTING. BOTH GALLAGHER AND CHERYL SEEM
IN ANY OF YOUR REPORTING. BOTH GALLAGHER AND CHERYL SEEM TO INDICATE, "HEY, WE'D LIKE TO
BOTH GALLAGHER AND CHERYL SEEM TO INDICATE, "HEY, WE'D LIKE TO BE MORE INVOLVED IN THINGS LIKE
TO INDICATE, "HEY, WE'D LIKE TO BE MORE INVOLVED IN THINGS LIKE THIS."
BE MORE INVOLVED IN THINGS LIKE THIS." THIS SEEMS TO BE AN EXERCISE
THIS." THIS SEEMS TO BE AN EXERCISE THAT A LOT OF TIMES THE
THIS SEEMS TO BE AN EXERCISE THAT A LOT OF TIMES THE PENTAGON WILL DO THESE
THAT A LOT OF TIMES THE PENTAGON WILL DO THESE EXERCISES AND WILL REPORT TO
PENTAGON WILL DO THESE EXERCISES AND WILL REPORT TO CONGRESS WHAT THEY NEED, AND
EXERCISES AND WILL REPORT TO CONGRESS WHAT THEY NEED, AND IT'S LIKE NO.
CONGRESS WHAT THEY NEED, AND IT'S LIKE NO. IT'S A LOT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND
IT'S LIKE NO. IT'S A LOT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU NEED HERE.
IT'S A LOT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU NEED HERE. IT WAS A SENSE OF MAYBE THE
WHAT YOU NEED HERE. IT WAS A SENSE OF MAYBE THE PENTAGON HAS BEEN GOING ABOUT
IT WAS A SENSE OF MAYBE THE PENTAGON HAS BEEN GOING ABOUT THIS ALL WRONG MAYBE THEY NEED
PENTAGON HAS BEEN GOING ABOUT THIS ALL WRONG MAYBE THEY NEED TO LOOP MEMBERS IN ON HOW THIS
THIS ALL WRONG MAYBE THEY NEED TO LOOP MEMBERS IN ON HOW THIS WORKS.
TO LOOP MEMBERS IN ON HOW THIS WORKS. >> OPEN IT UP.
WORKS. >> OPEN IT UP. A LOT OF WHAT THEY DO IS GOING
>> OPEN IT UP. A LOT OF WHAT THEY DO IS GOING TO DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT
A LOT OF WHAT THEY DO IS GOING TO DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE SUPPORT FOR CONGRESS.
TO DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE SUPPORT FOR CONGRESS. YOU HEARD THE DIRECTOR OF
THEY HAVE SUPPORT FOR CONGRESS. YOU HEARD THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE THIS
YOU HEARD THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE THIS WEEK, SAYING CHINA WANTS TO
NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE THIS WEEK, SAYING CHINA WANTS TO TAKE TAIWAN OR AND TRYING TO DO
WEEK, SAYING CHINA WANTS TO TAKE TAIWAN OR AND TRYING TO DO IT BY COERCION, BUT THEY ARE TO
TAKE TAIWAN OR AND TRYING TO DO IT BY COERCION, BUT THEY ARE TO DETERMINE TO DO IT BY FORCE IF
IT BY COERCION, BUT THEY ARE TO DETERMINE TO DO IT BY FORCE IF THEY NEEDED TO, SO, PART OF
DETERMINE TO DO IT BY FORCE IF THEY NEEDED TO, SO, PART OF WHAT THE INCLUSIONS WERE IN THE
THEY NEEDED TO, SO, PART OF WHAT THE INCLUSIONS WERE IN THE WARGAME IS THE SHOULD WE BE
WHAT THE INCLUSIONS WERE IN THE WARGAME IS THE SHOULD WE BE ARMING HEINE IN A DIFFERENT
WARGAME IS THE SHOULD WE BE ARMING HEINE IN A DIFFERENT WAY?
ARMING HEINE IN A DIFFERENT WAY? SHOULD WE BE INVOLVED?
WAY? SHOULD WE BE INVOLVED? THOSE ARE THINGS YOU HAVE TO
SHOULD WE BE INVOLVED? THOSE ARE THINGS YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH CONGRESS , SO
THOSE ARE THINGS YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH CONGRESS , SO BRINGING THEM IN COULD BE A
DEAL WITH CONGRESS , SO BRINGING THEM IN COULD BE A LITTLE BIT SOMETHING ELSE.
BRINGING THEM IN COULD BE A LITTLE BIT SOMETHING ELSE. >> PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WITH SOME
LITTLE BIT SOMETHING ELSE. >> PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WITH SOME SOUTHEAST ASIAN LEADERS.
>> PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WITH SOME SOUTHEAST ASIAN LEADERS. HERE'S ONE OF THE BIG PRACTICAL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN LEADERS. HERE'S ONE OF THE BIG PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS.
HERE'S ONE OF THE BIG PRACTICAL TAKEAWAYS. YES, WE HAVE GUAM, JAPAN, A
TAKEAWAYS. YES, WE HAVE GUAM, JAPAN, A BASE NOW IN AUSTRALIA.
YES, WE HAVE GUAM, JAPAN, A BASE NOW IN AUSTRALIA. I WAS THERE FOR THE OPENING UP
BASE NOW IN AUSTRALIA. I WAS THERE FOR THE OPENING UP AND WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WENT
I WAS THERE FOR THE OPENING UP AND WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WENT THERE, AND YOU REALIZE HOW
AND WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA WENT THERE, AND YOU REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS.
THERE, AND YOU REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS. STRATEGICALLY, WHAT ALLIES
IMPORTANT THAT WAS. STRATEGICALLY, WHAT ALLIES WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE
STRATEGICALLY, WHAT ALLIES WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE UNITED STATES HAVE IN SOUTHEAST
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE UNITED STATES HAVE IN SOUTHEAST ASIA THAT COULD HELP PROTECT
UNITED STATES HAVE IN SOUTHEAST ASIA THAT COULD HELP PROTECT TAIWAN?
ASIA THAT COULD HELP PROTECT TAIWAN? >> I'M GOING TO ADD ONE WHO IS
TAIWAN? >> I'M GOING TO ADD ONE WHO IS A STRONG ALLY, AND I THINK WE
>> I'M GOING TO ADD ONE WHO IS A STRONG ALLY, AND I THINK WE CAN DEPEND ON, THAT IS OF
A STRONG ALLY, AND I THINK WE CAN DEPEND ON, THAT IS OF COURSE SINGAPORE, AS WAS
CAN DEPEND ON, THAT IS OF COURSE SINGAPORE, AS WAS INDICATED, JAPAN IS VERY
COURSE SINGAPORE, AS WAS INDICATED, JAPAN IS VERY STRONG, AND SOUTH KOREA IS VERY
INDICATED, JAPAN IS VERY STRONG, AND SOUTH KOREA IS VERY STRONG.
STRONG, AND SOUTH KOREA IS VERY STRONG. IF YOU REALLY LOOK AROUND THE
STRONG. IF YOU REALLY LOOK AROUND THE CIRCUIT, WE'RE MISSING ONE
IF YOU REALLY LOOK AROUND THE CIRCUIT, WE'RE MISSING ONE SLOT, AND IT'S THE PHILIPPINE
CIRCUIT, WE'RE MISSING ONE SLOT, AND IT'S THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS, AND DON'T FORGET WE
SLOT, AND IT'S THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS, AND DON'T FORGET WE HAD WONDERFUL BASES THERE.
ISLANDS, AND DON'T FORGET WE HAD WONDERFUL BASES THERE. WE FOUGHT HARD THERE IN WORLD
HAD WONDERFUL BASES THERE. WE FOUGHT HARD THERE IN WORLD WAR II.
WE FOUGHT HARD THERE IN WORLD WAR II. WE HAD SUBIC A, CLARK AIR FORCE
WAR II. WE HAD SUBIC A, CLARK AIR FORCE BASE. THAT, IN MANY WAY WAS
WE HAD SUBIC A, CLARK AIR FORCE BASE. THAT, IN MANY WAY WAS THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR WESTERN
BASE. THAT, IN MANY WAY WAS THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR WESTERN PACIFIC STRATEGY , SO IF WE
THE CENTERPIECE OF OUR WESTERN PACIFIC STRATEGY , SO IF WE COULD POSSIBLY GET THEM BACK ON
PACIFIC STRATEGY , SO IF WE COULD POSSIBLY GET THEM BACK ON BOARD, WE GOT A VERY ROUGH RUN,
COULD POSSIBLY GET THEM BACK ON BOARD, WE GOT A VERY ROUGH RUN, BUT THEY JUST HAD AN ELECTION
BOARD, WE GOT A VERY ROUGH RUN, BUT THEY JUST HAD AN ELECTION YEAR THAT WOULD BE THE ONE I
BUT THEY JUST HAD AN ELECTION YEAR THAT WOULD BE THE ONE I WOULD LIKE TO ADD.
YEAR THAT WOULD BE THE ONE I WOULD LIKE TO ADD. FINAL THOUGHTS, CHUCK?
WOULD LIKE TO ADD. FINAL THOUGHTS, CHUCK? VIETNAM IS NO FRIEND OF CHINA.
FINAL THOUGHTS, CHUCK? VIETNAM IS NO FRIEND OF CHINA. >> NO.
VIETNAM IS NO FRIEND OF CHINA. >> NO. >> THAT IS ANOTHER DISTINCT
>> NO. >> THAT IS ANOTHER DISTINCT POLICY.
>> THAT IS ANOTHER DISTINCT POLICY. TAMRON BAY IS ONE OF THE BEST
POLICY. TAMRON BAY IS ONE OF THE BEST NATURAL HARBORS ON THE SOUTH
TAMRON BAY IS ONE OF THE BEST NATURAL HARBORS ON THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, SO THERE IS TWO TO
NATURAL HARBORS ON THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, SO THERE IS TWO TO WORK ON, I WOULD SAY.
CHINA SEA, SO THERE IS TWO TO WORK ON, I WOULD SAY. >> I GUESS, LOOK.
WORK ON, I WOULD SAY. >> I GUESS, LOOK. PEOPLE IN THE 1940s PROBABLY
>> I GUESS, LOOK. PEOPLE IN THE 1940s PROBABLY DID NOT EXPECT THAT TO BE SO
PEOPLE IN THE 1940s PROBABLY DID NOT EXPECT THAT TO BE SO CLOSE OF ALLIES TO JAPAN.
DID NOT EXPECT THAT TO BE SO CLOSE OF ALLIES TO JAPAN. PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY BE
CLOSE OF ALLIES TO JAPAN. PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY BE SHOCKED IF WE STARTED PACING IN
PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY BE SHOCKED IF WE STARTED PACING IN VIETNAM.
SHOCKED IF WE STARTED PACING IN VIETNAM. ADMIRAL, CAROL LEE, THANK YOU
VIETNAM. ADMIRAL, CAROL LEE, THANK YOU BOTH.
ADMIRAL, CAROL LEE, THANK YOU BOTH. REALLY PROUD OF THIS EPISODE,
BOTH. REALLY PROUD OF THIS EPISODE, FOLKS, AND JIM, YOU ARE