Film Courage: How does the book business differ to the film business?
Tony DuShane, Writer/Podcaster/Teacher: What I've noticed is in the book world there's
not a lot of people are there for all the huge amounts of cash coming in. There's more of a
passion like oh crap we might have picked the wrong thing but this is what we love
so when I'm working with like an editor I'm working with an agent there's a deep love
the agent wants to make money then these people yeah they do want to make money but they're there
because it's it's just what what they what they know and what they're good at when we get to film
there's a there's a little bit more the film business is weird I really don't connect with
the film business that much at all I'm not good at the film business and so it's I'm not even good at
pitching I'm not good there's a lot of things I'm really not good at on the film side of things but
I know but I know that I know the I know my the story is the only thing that really that I really
care about and then the maniacal passion to get it out there when I feel like I've got it right
so and and I've people in the people in the film business they're nuts they're just absolutely nuts
and it and what I've learned is it's just hilarious how people are like oh yeah no that's
I'm Indie we will never do Studio work and it's like oh we're studio and it's just like there are
pieces of crap on every single layer and sometimes those Indie sometimes those Indie focused people
are the ones you don't want to work with at all to be much better to work at Paramount and sometimes
it's vice versa there's the game is just funny there's just what I've learned is what what I've
learned in my my small career so far is to is to just love who you work with and but in the film
industry that might not be an option and have a really good entertainment lawyer that spells
everything out and you don't even have to talk to some people sometimes even if you're working with
them just so well that was going to be my next question is can you love film and love wanting
to put something out there but not love the business and not really want to be a part of the
business does that it seems like that can't work out well I'd love to be a part of the business
where the checks are big that's my favorite part of the business I would love to be a part of that
hey the business needs to be done and I understand why the business needs to be done I mean to create
a film is a Monumental expense and people are putting their money and going okay let's make
profit and so the stakes are very high and it's I nobody knows what's going to make it what or like
William Gold was it William Goldman or just like nobody knows anything but they make good guesses
and there's a lot of people that make good guesses I do I mean I love the art of film
I love the passion of someone who's in wardrobe and to talk to someone who does wardrobe and and
it's just like they are storytellers there and I've learned a lot coming into this where my
I've Loved film before I love it even more now that I've seen behind the curtain so that yeah
there's the business part but most of this most of the time if you're really working on something
the business part's so secondary and you you try to get agents and entertainment lawyers
to do all of that part of it and then go okay great here's what I need to do and this is what
I need to deliver and I think a lot of that is communication too I'm I think I've learned a lot
over the years be very almost over communicative so they know what to expect so they know what I
can bring and don't promise anything that I can't bring but let them know that I'm going
to try to do that but that might be out of my realm but let's just see what happens thing so
so then with the literary World maybe New York old money this this closed network is that a fallacy
it's much more open now it's it's oh I don't know yeah I just might be with the cool people okay
I mean I don't know in the publishing end I guess I know just a lot of writers so who are just
lovely people whether they're a bestseller every time they come out or they're on a
small print run and I love both of their styles of writing equally and love them in their own ways as
people so I think maybe I know more the writing end and I get to be aloof to the to where the
business is I just don't I don't care too much and I'm dealing with publicists a lot because
I cover writers and the publicists are great too for the most part they're just passionate
about the the writing and they're they want to get their they want to get their authors out there and
which publicist I've worked with for 20 years that that they they know who to give me they
just go you're going to love this guy and I'm like great you're gonna love this girl I'm like great
I don't even need to see the book just just yeah they're on the calendar so the the passion for it
is there I want to talk to writers I'd say I want to talk to Ryan that's the lovely thing of doing
a podcast is someone if I went hey I want to talk to you to just that random out of the
blue they'd be like who who are you you have a podcast and you're like I'd love to talk to
that person for an hour and pick their brain and it's just like wait you can just do it it's just
it's good fun isn't that strengths with Tony yeah and you've been doing it how long the next year
will be 20 years so I'm putting together the 20-year anniversary party but I did have the
Hiatus for five years between 2013 and 2018. so why the Hiatus that's when Jesus jerk went into
development and then I had to get to La and I used to do drinks with Tony in studio in San Francisco
so that was that was a two-hour show in studio and I didn't know how to do it not in studio and then
after all the film that for the film was released and that that the dust settled then I went maybe
I should just do this as a podcast and have my field recording gear instead of worrying about
being a doing a two-hour show so I just switched up the format the way you miss writing and the
way you feel like you're a better person for writing and when you don't it's like the people
that meditate they're like oh if I don't meditate I'm not fun to be around were you similar with not
being able to do the podcast did you need did you miss that did you need to do that podcast
so well so after after Jesus jerk came out and after all the dust settled I was walking
up Hillhurst totally depressed I just gutted I didn't know why and I'm like how do I get out
of this depression and I'm like what's the last thing that made me happy as I was like as I was
working on other writing projects and stuff but and I went drinks with Tony and I think I think
because there's no stakes in it from you there's stakes in it because I want to do a good show
but there's no there's not the stakes that I'm putting into my writing and at the same time
and I and I restarted it with thinking oh maybe I'll get 10 episodes in I wasn't planning on
doing it that long I was just like oh I still got this and I got public publicist contacts I'll just
tell people I'm doing it again and then when I don't get a guess I'll just stop and
I just put episode 157 up because the guests haven't stopped coming and I have to say no
to a lot of people so it's just like oh but and I still enjoy it and the only reason I do it is
because I really enjoy it it's the one in ten guests I go ugh that that felt like a piece of
crap but the nine out of ten I'm just like oh this is why I do this and there's like two out
of ten where I'm like this is really why I do this this is this reminds me of why I'm in this game so
whereas with writing if you don't write explain to me how long before you suffer withdrawal
um it's I think it's I think I think the thing the thing is is I need to have characters in my
brain and I need characters that are coming together so I need to actively be working on
someone so I'm working on a character Amber right now and so in the during the day I can have things
that irritate me but I have the problem solving of how will Amber get out of this situation who
what is Amber what else does what else does she need what what is what does she want to
say to the world so it's it's maybe it's a way to avoid the the conflict happening around me where
I can almost meditate on this character that I'm working on and this that I may that this
character actually don't like but as I'm writing her I'm writing her completely out of love and
just building around her and she's she's a yeah I mean what this is this is yeah this
is a writer in process on a character but this character does not make great choices and this
character continues to make great choices and in the end she still doesn't make the great choice
she's so there's but working with her and really getting in her head is just a lot of fun and just
and what swirls around her is I find interesting why do you love her if she makes these bad choices
I'm well I'm setting up a it's there's another character that I'm working on that's gonna get the
a that's going to be more of the protagonist and it's a story of three characters but there's this
one character that is more pivotal than the others so the characters are around him need to really be
three-dimensional and now and I also want I love the ambiguity of in my head she's not making the
right choices but as we get as we get as we move through the story maybe she is making the right
choices it's it's it well in the end she's doing the best she can with the information she has
but as far as I'm concerned it's that character is someone that's not that's not that hasn't
reached the maturity or reached a certain level of understanding but has stayed in it and so I have
empathy for that and that's so yeah so driving here I'm I'm just like driving and I'm thinking
of Amber and people are like oh who who's Amber is that your girlfriend I'm like no it's a it's
just a word on a page but you have a vision of what she looks like what her hopes are what her
fears are what her triggers are yeah yeah yeah and as I keep writing her I find out more about her
and that's that's the joy of that's the joy of prose writing for me because I can I can find
out if I'm as I write and I write the scene now and I go oh that's why she's doing that it was
I had on this particular one in the in the in the screenplay she's she's looking in the mirror
and reflecting on herself and that was like the only thing and as I wrote the thing out
she's worried about aging she's in her 20s and she's worried about aging
and and it's and and that clicked and I went and it create it opened her up and it opened the whole
story up in a new way where it's just like I'm not going to put in the screen now if it if if
the if the prose gets thrown away and it stays in the screenplay I'm not putting in the screenplay
she's worried about aging but I know she's worried about aging when she looks in the mirror
she's a model or cocktail waitress or makeup artist oh okay all right yeah okay do you ever
see her anywhere do you ever see like oh that was Amber no no I didn't no I don't see her I see
her enough I mean when I'm writing the script you just I see her enough and I don't want to cast her
I like that to be very open but I do have my thoughts on certain things
but as far as like describing exactly who she is and what she looks like there's there's just
little Composites here and there and and I'll take out like pages from like magazines and
stuff and it's there's there's an idea but it's not that but it's there could be something that
a certain a certain photograph is just like oh that's an essence of what she could be
and yeah it's I'm not one to really describe I don't care much about what they look like I care
more about the insides I guess and then for the film it's there's casting directors for that who
could tell me way better who could they're much better with at that gig than I am so.