Hi guys, thanks for tuning in another video on ForgottenWeapons.com.
I'm Ian McCollum, and I'm joined again today by Jonathan Ferguson
who's the author of the brand-new, currently available for pre-sale,
upcoming book from Headstamp Publishing, "Thorneycroft to SA80, British Bullpup Rifles."
And this raises an interesting question,
What the heck is a bullpup? Like where does that name come from?
- Don't ask me. - You wrote the book, I have to ask you.
- I only wrote about British bullpups. No, ... right from the start we said we would do a couple of fairly hefty
contextual chapters. An introduction and then a chapter specifically on what is a bullpup?
And then you go down the rabbit hole.
- Yeah, so what was involved? ... Like how did you find out? What did you find out, where did this term come from?
- ... You and I have worked on definitions for a couple of projects and it's kind of fun,
but kind of annoying at the same time, wouldn't you say?
- Yeah, it's in some ways very difficult to figure out who is the first person to say or do X.
- Yeah, who's the first to say or do it, and then
because ... every term means something different to different people in different places at different times,
how do you lock that down? Especially when you're writing about,
effectively, I mean the date on the book is 1901 to 2018,
the earliest bullpup in the book, or mentioned in the book, pictured in the book, is from 1860-ish.
So, ... were they even calling it a bullpup then?
No. And in fact the British officially never called anything they make a bullpup.
- OK. - Which is kind of crazy.
-That's surprising. - Except when you dig into the etymology of ... where the word comes from,
which is almost separate from what it means, because you can use words without knowing where they come from.
But I am particularly fascinated, as you know, with etymology in our field.
So I went down that rabbit hole, and long story somewhat shorter,
the bullpup might be a British invention, we think, the word is an American invention.
- OK, do tell. From when?
- So the first references I started coming across, and other people have done the same, were like benchrest target rifles.
1940s, you can sort of push it into the '30s because just because the first reference
(if I'm remembering rightly) is 1940, it doesn't come out of nowhere,
that it has some currency in the '30s in America.
And these guys are wildcatting cartridges to create weird small-bore powerful cartridges.
They are butchering and rebuilding guns in different configurations for whatever their needs might be.
And although the military need, or requirement, for a bullpup becomes a compact, in theory lighter weight,
infantry rifle. So you can go in and out of vehicles, on and off horses, that kind of thing.
In a civilian context it's more about convenience, moving around the gun in a static position.
- OK. - So the 1860s-ish British bullpup actually has the same
reason for existing as the 1930s American ones. The American term is from the '30s or early '40s.
... The reason people don't get it any more, right, we didn't get it either,
is that the name, the term, bullpup, bull pup (because it was originally two separate words),
was a very common term for literally a bulldog puppy.
... Because you'll read some etymological things, or especially the amateur attempts
where it's like a guy in the pub, "Oh, I think it's ... posh stands for port out starboard home."
And then suddenly people are repeating that like it's true, which it's not by the way.
And the same is true here ... to a lesser extent in that
bull pup, well we just don't know what that means any more.
But in the 19th century and early 20th century, "I'm just off to buy a bull pup,"
everyone knew what you meant. You meant a little squat, ugly, but still aggressive and powerful, dog.
- Interesting. - Bull pup rifle. - OK.
- And again, just in case you think I'm making this up, the reference,
I'll try and include the reference in the book, directly reference it,
there's an article in one of the American gun publications, "Care and feeding of bull pups."
Specifically talking about the gun. It's not a reader's letter about dogs, it's about the gun.
So, I managed to nail that one.
- That's really cool. And then that continues in use to this day.
- Yup, and I don't feel bad about the spoiler for the book, because I feel like people should know that.
- Yeah. - It's a minor point, but it's a cool and interesting point I hope.
- Yeah, very much so. Awesome. Well, there you go. That is where bullpup comes from, and what it is.
So actually we didn't actually say what it is. What is the technical definition of a bullpup?
- This is the danger of these various rabbit holes, is you get fixated on one thing.
So almost separate, but in parallel to,
I've tried to come up with, and this may yet change in editing, a one sentence definition of what one is.
I'm not going to read it out because the comments section will explode,
... and the informal definition, as I'm sure everybody knows. ...
- Go with the informal, if you want to get the full exact technical definition, then buy the book.
- Well, let's start with the received definition, and then explain briefly why that doesn't work.
So it's usually the action or the magazine. So then you're immediately limiting yourself to magazine fed rifles.
Not all of them are magazine fed.
Most of them are, to be fair, and by the time the term's in common use they are magazine fed.
Even if it's an internal Mauser-type mag, but.
- The magazine's behind the trigger. - Yeah, but of course, I mean in most situations the magazine and the action go together.
So yeah, magazine/action behind the trigger. But it's the reference point that causes problems.
When you start thinking about things like Uzi, Sa 23, pistols.
- Golly, the breech face is behind the trigger.
- Virtually all ... This is why ... and I don't want to throw any shade at the Boberg, bullpup?
- Oh, it's been repeatedly pointed out to me that using this definition all handguns, or many handguns, are bullpups.
And in fact the breech location on the Boberg is not different than any other typical handgun.
- You've got it in one, yeah, so intuitively you look at it and you go, "Yeah, I can see why they call that a bullpup."
But the designer didn't call it a bullpup, correct me if I'm wrong.
- I don't believe so. I haven't asked him.
- Then there's the application of the term. What does it mean to call a handgun a bullpup?
It's a marketing term. ... - That's exactly what I've was going to say.
- But if you can establish, like data points almost, on the gun of where these different components
interrelate, or don't relate,
you can come up with a working definition. So that's what we are trying to do, or I'm trying to do.
So yeah, you end up with virtually all magazine in pistol grip designs are bullpup, no-one calls those a bullpup.
You have to marry the technical, nerdy, definition stuff with practical application.
And actually the one I've worked on, I hope it works for that, and it's really to do with where you're grasping the gun.
Bearing in mind not all bullpups have pistol grips. - Correct.The Thorneycroft does not.
Alright we'll leave it there. Leave the rest as a treat for people who pick up a copy of the book.
- To be continued. - Yes, indeed.
So if you're interested in bullpups, in British bullpups in specific, the Thorneycroft, the Godsals,
the EM series after World War Two, the current production SA80 family,
and the Enfield Weapons System that led into it, all of these are covered in awesome detail
in Johnathan's newly released book. So check out the description text,
you'll find a link there to the Kickstarter where it is currently available for pre-sale, pick up a copy.
Price is a little bit reduced on the Kickstarter compared to what it will be once the book is out in regular sale.
And there are some cool perks that you get for being part of the Kickstarter. So definitely check it out.
It's a fantastic book, I'm really looking forward to getting my own hands on the first printed copy.
And thanks for watching. Thanks for joining us.
- Thank you very much.
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