all around us are dishonest Charlatans boasting supernatural claims in order to bilk the credulous out of their hard-earned money
a psychic who's made Millions by convincing
Grieving vulnerable people she can talk with their dead loved ones a faith healer who claims a direct connection with God before?
Passing the offering plate to fund his private jet and the list goes on
And on and on that's where my next guest comes in he's a world-Renowned magician
Who's dedicated his life to spreading scientific skepticism?
Exposing the secrets of psychics and debunking supernatural claims through TV and speaking appearances
Documentaries and books his work has helped millions of people to avoid the snake oil
And to think a little bit more skeptical without any further ado, I give you James the amazing Randi
You sir were my earliest introduction to skepticism by seeing your work
I was able to overcome a lot of my fear of the supernatural
How long would you say that you've identified as a skeptic. I think since I was a little kid
I think about the age of 10 I was first sent to Sunday school and
They sent me back because I was asking too many questions
you know who is this John and who and what is
Deuteronomy or whatever this word is they didn't appreciate that they said he asks too many questions
He doesn't just listen to the word of God in the bible, and I decided that I had to look into this a little deeper
Sounds very similar to my upbringing. I was the question kid now you established the James Randi educational
foundation which had a million-dollar prize where anyone with the supernatural claim could win a million bucks if they could
Verifiably prove it
I'm sure you've seen some crazy claims over the years
but which one would you say was the
Craziest it's hard to say it's hard to say because there are such different natrium most of them
Can't actually state what they believe they can do they can't make a simple straightforward statement if I can
Understand what number is in your mind or something like that you see they say I get impressions of both people
And I can tell them what's on their mind well
Yeah, if I punch you in the nose, I think I know what's in your mind without too much trouble
But they just can't explain themselves they think that they have all kinds of notions
But then when you you'll see them undergoing what they believe are tests
They will do things like they say okay, I get an impression about you
That you have had a phone call recently and the person says well
Not recently it was a good week or so ago really well
I meant that you know about about a week or so
But let's get more accurate they'll say say something like and this one that
Involved the subject of money and the person will say no, not money actually it was was about an appointment
we had it was the appointment about money and no no it was just a
Case of a lawn mower that I loaned to him lawnmower
But they cost money don't they you see they would go through things like this try to make it work
And beating around the bush and just using words that they had selected out of the conversation
They didn't know how they should test themselves and at the end of a long thing like this for half an hour
They'd say see see the impressions that I got about you, but when you analyze it they didn't get anything
But a lot of people still seem to fall for stuff like that
What advice would you give to people in order to train them to be more skeptical of cold readers pSychics and people like that?
Buy buy books and read them or go to the library. That's that's a fair way to do it
go to the library most of my books here in the library already and
Sit and read them carefully and my address is not too hard to find
Write to me if you want to talk to me on the phone
I'm on on the phone as well
And he hadn't indeed advice or you would like to have some explanation or something like that
Look me up, and I'm available beautiful. I don't want to flood you with phone calls. Oh, no, I don't mind
It believe me
I don't mind it because people who are inquiring to try to find out more information about themselves
And about things they've been involved in those are people that I really look forward to trying to help now
I've noticed a lot of atheists within the Magic Community there's you penn & Teller Darren Brown Matt Dillahunty and many more
Do you think that there's a disproportionately large number of skeptics within the Magic community?
I don't know about that, but I would say you can look at it
the other way the people who practice magic to think about the world and about pSychology and about
physiology and various other things they think about how the world really works and
Because of that they have to know how the world really works or they can't do their Magic now. They don't do magic
You're you're talking about the kind of thing
We should really call
Conjuring making the effect of a magician doing tricks things that look as if they are magic
but they're not really magic and people who think that way and have an interest in that particular way of
How people's minds work those are the people who do most thinking about their their own lives and about
humanity in General
and how it thinks
Since you started conjuring and performing illusions has that shaped the way that you think in the way that you view the world
Well, when I see the effect by illusion
Yes
It further shapes it of course because I have to know how people look at the world and how they perceive it
from their sensory mechanisms
Sight hearing touch all of these things I have to know that rather intimately so that I can
Misrepresent things to them in a way that they can accept and not the conscious of as trickery
Let's say that you have a massive performance coming up
And you're about to get on stage before thousands of people in Las Vegas the curtains open you set foot on stage
What is going through James the amazing Randy's mind I?
I Don't have a problem. I just step out and say hello. My name is James Randi, and I go from there
It's sort of natural with people in show business
They don't have a problem each day facing an audience because that's what they do
That's their their livelihood, and it's their attitude. It's the the way they approach the world
I think that more people should have that kind of attitude when meeting other folks
certainly for the first time they should approach it with I want to know more about this person and
Try to evoke answers from them and opinions and whatnot
Encourage other people to speak because in those cases they like to speak about themselves
And that will reveal a great deal is it hard to find the balance between on the one hand you're on stage and you want
to be yourself and relate and connect with the audience and at the same time you're practicing an artful ruse the
Art of Deception and sleight of hand how difficult is it to find the right balance between those two well? It's something
It's in my background already, and I've talked to other magicians about that exact same question
We just automatically fall into place. It's like falling into bed. You fall in a comfortable position
You know and if its not comfortable
You move a bit until it's more comfortable and finally you can fall asleep in other words
You can come to to grips with your environment
It's a very natural thing and it's hard to explain it step by step
But people have talked to me many times over the years about how they began to
Understand the world and how they affect the world by their reactions and actions in the world
What do you think is the greatest threat to skepticism?
I think its lack of education
And it's the way many of our school systems all around the world don't take the right approach to educating children
education to Children should consist of
Challenging them to answer questions, and to find answers to other questions as well that are opposed to them
But in many cases. It's just a case of repeating
What is been written by persons wiser than the teachers in many cases and now that's good, too
because if the students can understand those words and they can read the the great authorities the great thinkers and
Understand it and really act on it
That's fine
But they should be challenged more they should be challenged to find answers to questions that puzzle them and teachers should
Encourage them to find answers and maybe the teachers know the answers
But they should be encouraged to ask the student what about so and so just to start them into the search
Because students who find their own answers learn much more than answers that are presented to them by teachers
Fostering curiosity rather than rote learning that's exactly correct
What advice would you give to the next generation of skeptics and people who are starting to figure out how this world works and how?
To think critically as you see them rising through the ranks. What advice would you give this next generation?
to different things first of all technology is allowing us well through the use of computers and
Information systems and everything from Wikipedia all the way to out of the telephone directory we have much more information available
To us every day that passes it gets better and better, but you've got to treat it with respect
There are some things out there that are planted in your mind
or can be planted in your mind by information systems by people who want to benefit from your ignorance and from your
Misdirection so be very careful select your sources of information very carefully now that takes a certain amount of skill
But more than that it takes experience
so you have to stay with it for quite some time and where can people go to find your work most libraries my
Libraries I have an 11th book coming out, and it's called a magician in the laboratory it details
how I
visit Labs and
Places of higher knowledge all over the world for many years down and found out that they in many cases
They just don't know what they're doing
I did a whole trip all the way through Europe and all the way to China and back just visiting laboratories
That's what this latest by eleventh book is about and in many cases
They looked at me and said you know you may be right and they really thought about what I said in other cases
They just smiled at me and said oh yes, but we have our own ideas on how these things work
And they totally ignored me because I didn't have academic credentials to wave at them. They didn't know that
I know as much as I do about how people's minds really work and a magician or any performer any
Performer is very apt to be able to give themselves a better picture of what they're all about
Rather than people who are gonna read them out of books it's hands-on experience. That's right
What has been your favorite trick or performance on stage that you've ever done or that you do regularly that's hard to say
That I have an answer for it which is probably true, the next one James Randi ladies and gentlemen
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