I remember I was working on a chemical
reaction called an anti-aldol reaction, which
wouldn't mean anything to people who aren't
chemists, but it was called an anti-aldol
reaction and people couldn't do them.
And there was all these rules
why it would never work and it
should never work, et cetera.
And I remember one Saturday setting up
a reaction and we did the reaction and
I took what's called the NMR spectrum.
It's like basically a fingerprint that
comes out and it was an anti-aldol product.
And it was one of those moments in life
where you realize, despite the knowledge,
despite the dogma, science and chemistry
is going to take you places that it
doesn't care about what you know, or what
people think, it's going to do what it
wants to do, and you have to be ready.
Sort of jump in the saddle, hold the reins
on tight and go where it wants to take you.
And for me that was a tremendous lesson.
I'm David McMillan, I'm a Professor
of Chemistry here at Princeton.
And this year I won the 2021 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
So, I grew up in a tiny village
called New Stevenston, which was next
to a small town called Bellshill.
And so people keep referring to New
Stevenston and Bellshill,
but they are a part of this
basically steel working area,
but also mining area. Probably
about 10 miles away from Glasgow.
And when we were growing up, it's kind of
funny in America at 10 miles is nothing.
You wouldn't consider that anything.
But we considered that the other side
of the universe, to actually to go
to Glasgow, which was 10 miles away.
We were really sort of proudly working class
village, proudly working class town
right next store, it is.
The whole area was based on coal mines.
My grandparents were coal miners,
my next door neighbor, who was effectively
my grandfather, was a coal miner.
That was about 50% of it
when I was growing up.
The other 50% was we had the
biggest steelworks in all of Europe.
Which was basically a mile
and a half from my house.
I actually grew up between
two different steelworks.
So, the other 50% was steel workers and they
would go off to the steelworks, every day.
So, it was a pretty working
class place, but it was, you know,
it was a lot, people were employed.
People were working.
My village would be 99% council houses.
There were one or two people
who owned their own house
at the very outskirts of the village
but almost everyone I grew
up with I've lived in council houses.
As you've probably seen them on TV,
that's where you have all the sort of
houses which are in a row and they're
all sort of connected to each other.
And everyone loves sitting on
top of each other. Which sort
It looks strange when you see it, but it's
actually a pretty wonderful existence.
It's a fantastic place to sort of grow up
and you're just surrounded by everyone.
And so in terms of a community feel, it
just had this really fantastic community feel.
And my family, you know, the people,
my family really cared about making
sure that you get educated. Even
though we were very in class, that's a
sort of a common theme in Scotland.
People really do care about education.
When I was a kid, I had probably no interest
in science and no interest in math or
I wasn't one of these kids who was like
drawing things in their notebooks when they
were a kid, about scientific ideas.
I wasn't shooting bottle
rockets off in my backyard.
I wish I had a been cause that,
I think that would have been awesome.
No, I was a kid who grew up pretty,
just completely consumed by things
like sports and soccer and football.
But for me, the real major
influence was, was my brother.
I didn't know anyone who went to college
or went to uni, except my brother, my
brother was the first person who did that.
Against my mom and dad's
wishes, cause they thought he
was just being lazy, trying to get
four years without getting a job.
So he went off to uni and
then the first day after he
got out of uni with his degree, he got a job
with a salary that paid more than my dad,
And this really, sort of, was stunning to everyone.
This blew
away my parents and from that day on, I
was always being told that you need to go, you
need to go to uni. Specifically,
to do exactly what my brother had done.
But the, but I think the interesting
part there was, it was extraordinarily
important to see that for me to
see my brother go off and do that,
and what became of him.
Yeah,
so I went to the University of Glasgow.
That's where I went for
my undergraduate degree.
In terms of when did science and
chemistry really begin to impact me?
I would say it was in my second year.
It was my sophomore year.
I originally went there to do physics,
for a whole range of reasons decided that
wasn't going to happen. Jumped over to
chemistry and in my second year, and sort of
fell in love with organic chemistry, which
for a lot of people will sound really weird.
A lot of people think organic
chemistry is particularly difficult.
I don't. I think for people who do organic chemistry
it's something that it actually becomes,
it's it seems very, very natural.
When you first start to learn about it,
it's in your mind, it sort of fits in with
the way that you sort of think about problem
solving as well as logic. And learning about
organic chemistry was really wonderful.
It was very different for me from
lending about almost any other subject.
And as I said, it was, it was a very natural
sort of uptake for me to enjoy it.
And especially whenever people would
stop to set us problems and questions,
it seems really like almost breathing.
Thinking about how you would sort of
approach thinking about organic chemistry
and from that moment on, I pretty
much knew I was going to be an
organic chemist for the rest of my life.
What is an organic chemist?
An organic chemist is a chemist who thinks
about, studies, and does research with
molecules that contain the atoms of life.
The organic aspects all around us, which is
predominantly carbon but includes hydrogen,
oxygen, nitrogen, those kind of atoms.
And it turns out,
all the molecules that make up our bodies
that make up the trees, make up animals;
all the things around us are
organic, as you might expect.
And it turns out to be able to understand
and think about how those molecules
interact with each other or react with each
other is the field of organic chemistry.
One of the most beautiful things about
the field of organic chemistry is it's
constantly evolving and you get to play a
role in that and all the organic chemists
get to play a role in that every single day.
For example, in the lab right now,
I just came out of a meeting where
we discovered a new reaction.
The new organic reaction is something
that many different sectors will be using
probably within the next two to three weeks.
For example, people we knew in
the pharmaceutical industry, we will
explain to them this new chemical
reaction. They will see the value of it.
They will start using it to help
design and make new types of drugs.
And for me, that's extraordinarily exciting, is
the fact that you can find these things and evolve
these ideas, but also see people
adopt them, very rapidly, for basically
applications that everyone cares about.
And I think that's,
that's extremely exciting.
One of the reasons why so many people
love being in the field of organic chemistry.
You know the question, how do you make a scientist?
I don't believe there is a
formula to make a scientist.
I would say that, you know, the
number one thing as a scientist is
that you have to be curious and you
have to care about seeing new things.
If you're excited about new things,
I think we all are, but if you're
genuinely excited to see the next thing
is going to happen, I think that's,
that's what helps make a scientist.
I think there's other things and other
features which make for really good
scientists. This may sound like a strange
one, but generosity is really important as
a scientist because you're going to have
to be around other people and you have to
give and take and share, you're going
to have to explain to them what's going on.
They have to tell you what's going on.
And if you're not generous with letting them
know what's available to them and what's
possible for them, you're not going to get
that in a sort of responsive way either in your,
your career's never going to move forward.
I always tell my wife that I believe
strongly karma, not in a sort of spiritual sense,
but I really do think that people who are
generous, the world knows they're generous
and gives it back to them five-fold.
And I really do think that's an
important thing for people to remember
and being generous as a scientist is
an extraordinarily important attribute.
Do scientists understand their career
path as they're going through it?
I think from my perspective,
everyone does it in a different way.
I really do believe that.
And I think one of the parts,
which I think is really
pretty remarkable, especially about the
U.S., the United States system, is how it
allows people from so many different paths
to sort of end up in this sort of same place.
And I know it seems like this sort
of old cliche that America provides
opportunities for people all over the
world, but it's unbelievably true.
It's so true.
And I think people sometimes
don't quite appreciate to what
level the United States does that.
But if you look at any lab
environment, in any good research community,
you will see in the U.S. people who came here
from so many different paths and through
so many different journeys to get here.
And I think that's, number one that's
wonderful, but number two it's special.
And I think it's the U.S. is
singularly allowed that to happen.
How do you know what your passion
is and how do you know how
you follow it for your career?
I would see that as, you know number
one, you know what your passions
are, you know what it is you do
when no one's watching. You know what it is,
the books you pick up, the things you read,
the things, you know, your own curiosities.
If you can somehow channel that into a
career, it's not always possible
and of course you have to be practical
in some ways, but if there's an aspect
of that you can take and you can
channel it in your career, you know
it inside, and it's, it's difficult
sometimes to get out of what you are doing.
There's an activation barrier
associated with doing that,
but if you really do sort of
trust your own instincts, then it's
absolutely worthwhile
and I truly believe that.
And taking those risks, they're not huge
risks, but they're still risks, I think
are really important if you really want
to get to what you care most about
and you want to use that and be
part of that on a day-to-day basis.
So what role does luck play?
I think luck plays a very large role for anyone
who ends up getting to certain levels
that you, you know, the certain barriers that
you have to overcome. But at the same
time, I also believe in equal measure,
determination is
also pretty important.
I think you, on some level, you have to know
where it is that you're wanting to get to.
But to get there you also
need some level of luck
and I think people who, if they don't
believe that, they're sort of kidding
themselves on just a little bit.
I have been, I mean, anyone who
has listened to me knows that I've been
extraordinarily fortunate in my life.
I certainly know that, but at the
same time, I've also been reasonably
determined as well. As I've went along
of sort of knowing the certain parts of my life
I wanted to keep sort of jumping to the
next step and the next step.
And I think it's always important
to sort of know if a step is available to you.
To sort of take the step because
otherwise you would just, at least in
my view, you'd end up just spending a whole
part of your life regretting having
not taken, jumping to that next level.
So, that's something I've always believed in
since I went to university.
How do you become aware of
what your gifts are in life?
That's an incredibly difficult question.
I come from a, obviously slightly
older generation than many,
obviously the people who are here on campus
undergraduates and graduate students. I feel
like for our generation, it was a little bit
easier to sort of identify what you were good at and people,
you could sort of figure your way
out by seeing what you're decent
at and being reasonably self-aware
about what you're not good at. I think
what's really, really difficult for sort of younger
folks today is, everyone will say this,
but the social media aspect of there's
just so much noise where people declaring
themselves as being great at everything or
not great at everything.
And I think it's extraordinarily confusing
and difficult, and it's a completely new
medium and young people trying to figure out
how to navigate identifying who they are,
not just to themselves, but to everyone else.
It's really, really tough.
And so I really have a lot of
sympathy in some ways, but you
know, I also think that young people
are robust and they do well and they
figure things out and they get it going.
And so I think, for most people
that self identification process,
it comes to you along the way.
I don't think it's naturally
a light bulb moment.
I think it's an awareness
moment that grows and over time.
But I think if you follow, this'll
sound cliche, but if you follow what
you truly are excited about and you
truly love, I think you'll get there in the end.
Yeah,
so science taking a bashing from
um, recently, which I always find just
remarkable and surprising. Mainly because,
I'm in a very lucky position.
I won this prize and so my situation,
I'm fine.
I would, I would argue for the most
part, but I get to hang out with so
many different scientists around
the world and all those people,
all those scientists, they do this out of
nobility because they care so much
about trying to give back to the world
and allow the world to move forward.
And the idea that science is taking a
bashing is like bashing the most noble
people in the world who just trying to
help everyone, which I find really bizarre.
If you look around, what we're
doing right now, every single thing
that's around us right now is here
for the most part because the
science. And if you don't believe in
science, how does all of this exist?
It doesn't exist.
So for me, it's, it's both unfortunate,
it's sad in a lot of different ways.
I hope it's a pendulum
that's going to swing back
to where it should be.
But I think the key message is, you
know, scientists are noble people
who really just care about the world.
And I think we have to get back to that message.
I'm David McMillan, it's been
fun to do this interview.
I hope I haven't bored you
too much with some of my responses.
If you ever see me around
campus, please say hi.
I love talking to people.
Thanks a lot.