when I was a kid I I wanted to be a
commando like I don't really remember
wanting to do anything else when I
realized that there was that role that
you could play in life that's what I
wanted to do and a lot of my friends in
the SEAL Teams wore the same way that's
what they wanted to do and soon as they
figured out like oh that's that exists
oh I can do that and I just have to sign
this piece of paper and go do this stuff
and then that's what I'll be where does
that come from
well I mean that that's a very good
question I mean I would say it's
temperamental
you know people differ tremendously in
their temperaments and to think that
there's a warrior temperament is a
perfectly reasonable thing to think I
mean there's been whole cultures many
many cultures who were devoted to
fostering that warrior mentality you
know where if you weren't like that you
were the outlier I would say that's
probably true of most human cultures
across most of time you know we've been
fortunate enough to live in relatively
peaceful times at least the vast
majority of us so the necessity for that
like right at the edges of actual
warfare is much less than it might be
under other historical circumstances but
but it's it's it's a deep part of many
people's nature and so the question is
what do you do with that right and I
mean one alternative potential
potentially is criminal behavior and you
know the fact that so many people like
watching movies about bad guys you know
is an indication of how attractive that
is to people and I think the reason for
that is is that well Nietzsche observed
at one point that most of what people
regard as morality is just cowardice and
what he meant by that was that people
don't do bad things not because they're
good but because they're afraid to do
the bad things and then when they see
people do the bad things they were
actually really deeply attracted by that
because it speaks to part of them that
could go beyond the rules and that's
actually a necessary part it's a really
necessary part like you don't make men
safe by making them weak in fact you
they're much more dangerous when they're
weak because they'll stab
in the back when they get the chance or
take advantage of you when you when they
get the chance you make men safe let's
say by making them strong and then by
making sure that they're disciplined and
so you know you've got people like
you've got this let's say warrior
mentality that's a part deep part of
their temperament and then you have some
choices about what you might do with
that you might try to discipline it and
bring it under voluntary control and
integrated into your character in which
it then it can make you someone who's
stalwart and indomitable and and who
will move forward you know in the face
of tremendous risk and well that's the
optimal that's the optimal pathway if
you have that kind of temperament and I
I think like it's the men that have the
most what would you call it it's not
aggressive exactly but we'll leave it at
that aggressive and fearless
temperaments that can be the best men
but it's like having a very powerful dog
you better civil you better discipline
because otherwise it's gonna be a
monster yeah well I had the I was a
rebellious kid right and I could have
easily gone down the path of crime and
as a matter of fact many of my friends
that I you know left when they stay - no
at home they they did end up as
criminals and having big trouble with
the law or going down even paths of
drugs and everything else that you can
get into but but when we were kids or
younger everyone kind of had the same
thing but like you said I kind of jerky
because I just designed that piece of
paper and I saw that I could do
something and I could take all that
aggression and all that energy I could
do something that was good and positive
and and we joke about that in the SEAL
Teams that many guys you you you
actually to be a good seal you sort of
you sort of have this criminal mindset
that you you've somehow harnessed and
you keep under control most of the time
yeah and occasionally it does get out of
hand and we got guys that get in trouble
and that happens
and if we if we only took guys that
would never get in trouble we wouldn't
have anyone in the ranks really well
well you also see two in the classic
hero stories I mean you see this with
Harry Potter for example which I'm
making reference to because it was such
a phenomenon I mean when when something
makes welfare mother richer than the
Queen of England you shouldn't take note
right and when kids are reading five
hundred page books and and standing in
line waiting for the next one and when
you produce a whole movie Empire around
something you should take note of that
well Harry Potter's little team aren't
the delinquents right who have no
discipline but they're also not the good
kids they're the kids who will break
rules when necessary and that's that's
the issue break rules when necessary now
the question is win is that necessary
well that's sort of the ultimate
ultimate ethical choice but you know
you're why did that work for you do you
think you know like what why was it well
two questions one would be why did you
decide to step into a discipline
structure I mean that's obviously very
difficult and why do you think you did
that and some of the other kids that you
knew that were like you didn't it was
really one of the most rebellious things
that I could do was to join the military
so I come from a small New England town
people get done with high school they go
to college they get a job as whatever
people get jobs as they follow that very
normal path and and I didn't even know
anyone that joined the military and and
so that was the most rebellious thing I
could do Oh College no education no I'm
gonna go be a commando that's what I'm
gonna do and and it was the most
rebellious thing I could do I think
that's one of the reasons why I did it
it was also a complete break away from
you know family okay I have no reliance
on you you know I'm going you don't have
to worry about me anymore I'm done I
will not rely on anyone else I will be
self-reliant which I wanted to do and so
I think those are the main things that
that got me there and then what's great
about it for
me was when I got there you have a
completely blank slate and you have very
clear directions of what you need to do
to to ascend the the dominance you do
this you do this you follow these rules
you you literally fold your underwear in
this way when you're going through boot
camp and you get a better grade on your
military performance so they give you
very clear rules that you're supposed to
follow and very clear tasks that you had
to do and and it was great for me
because it's a blank slate because when
I was in high school I was a I was a
screw-up not bad but not good and and so
I hadn't really set myself up properly
and now all of a sudden all I had to do
that that was all gone it didn't matter
that the past did not matter at all I
have completely blank slate if you do
this stuff properly you'll you'll do
well and you'll ascend that yeah well
that's a tired that's a very interesting
thing because then it's not merely a
matter of following a set of arbitrary
rules it's following a set of rules that
have a clear path to success right
that's a very different thing and and
that that's also something that's honest
because the rules of the game are well
established and then if you play it
properly you get to win and that's a big
deal as well you know and you mentioned
the seal types and I've met a number of
people like that you know they're
they're they're capable of breaking
rules let's say or maybe even inclined
to break them but I also think that
that's this is part of the reason that
I'm an admirer of Carl Jung because Jung
makes it very clear that see he was very
interested in the barriers to
enlightenment because if there's if
there's such a thing as being
enlightened let's say then why isn't
everyone enlightened if it's just a
matter of taking the glorious route and
and following your bliss let's say it's
like well that sounds pretty easy why
isn't everyone enlightened and but
Jung's thinking isn't like that at all
you know he he believed that in order to
transform your personality that first of
all you had to be disciplined that's for
sure but you also had to integrate that
part of you that was terrible and
capable of breaking rules and make it
part of you and so then and I really
like that idea well here here's an
example so about twenty years ago I
would say there was a newspaper headline
in one accounted his major newspapers
and it was the Minister of Foreign
Affairs at that time Lloyd Axworthy and
he was talking about what had happened
with Milosevic and in the former Soviet
Union in Yugoslavia and the atrocities
that were being committed and he said
that he that he was caught unawares by
that because he didn't have the
imagination for that kind of evil and I
thought well you know you think that
what you're doing is signaling your
virtue by making a statement like that
but from my perspective all you're doing
is stating your cowardice and your
historical ignorance because if you're
gonna be Minister of Foreign Affairs you
bloody well better have imagination for
that kind of evil because if you don't
then anyone who does wins they beat you
and so you you know and again in the
Harry Potter stories you see he's
touched by evil right he actually has a
soul fragment that's embedded within him
that's as black as anything can possibly
be that's why he could talk to snakes
but without that he wouldn't be able to
have any victory and that's exactly
right psychologically unless you can
think the way that an evil person thinks
then you're defenseless against them
because they'll go places you can't
imagine and then they win and so the
best man I've met I was interesting even
when I was in junior high in high school
because most of my friends dropped out
you know by the time their grade 10
thereabouts
and a lot of them were guys who
developed physically they're pretty
powerful and they're just damn sick and
put up their hand to go to the bathroom
I was like you know they're not doing
that anymore
one of my friends got kicked out when he
sort of challenged the gym teacher you
know physically and the gym teacher he
could do an Iron Cross he was a tough
guy and so it was no trivial matter for
my friend to stand up to him but he got
expelled anyways but you know I noticed
that it wasn't it was often the kids
whose character I admired that either
quit or got expelled and they were the
tougher guys who were just sick and
tired of following rules that didn't
take into account their character and
then they go off and work on the oil
rigs or whatever and you could do that
in Alberta at that time that was really
hard work you know so it wasn't like
they were necessarily taking the easy
path but like a harmless man is not a
good man
a good man is a very very dangerous man
who has that under voluntary control and
you know you also see that like one of
the central mmm female stories let's say
if the hero archetype is the central
male story there are variants of hero
archetypes that are relevant to women
and one of them is Beauty and the Beast
and you know Beauty isn't interested in
the guy who isn't the Beast she's
interested in the guy who's the Beast
and that's exactly right but she's
interested in the guy who's the Beast
that can be civilized and disciplined
right and who can use that in the
service well let's say of a family and
and that's exactly well that's exactly
how it should be so I gave a speech one
of my very good friends got married a
few years ago and I gave a speech and at
this speech he was a friend of mine seal
and at the speech I was talking about
what it was to be a man and what when I
felt like I was a man and I said there
was three things that that I felt let me
transition from being you know mentally
insecure about who I was as a person to
being okay I'm actually good with Who I
am
number one was learning how to fight and
you know I got into Brazilian jiu-jitsu
and mixed martial arts and I learned how
to fight and now all of a sudden when I
looked at other people I didn't I wasn't
posturing I wasn't trying to pretend
that I was tough I was I knew that most
people that I would encounter I could
defeat in a physical altercation that
was number one number two was going into
combat because even though you might be
tough on him you know street fighter in
a fist fight with someone when you're
facing death well that's a whole nother
level and for me going into combat well
what was I gonna hack like was I gonna
be scared was I gonna be a coward was I
gonna be scared of death and when I went
into combat I wasn't I was fine I was
okay with the fact that I could die and
I was okay with that and I made good
decisions and and
did what I was supposed to do and the
last one was a cup Mary didn't had kids
because all of a sudden all these things
these being aggressive and working to
fight and be able to destroy in an
efficient way
well then I took that and combined it
with okay now I'm gonna take care of
these my wife and our children and
that's what I'm gonna do and my point in
giving this speech was he was a guy that
had learned how to fight he was a guy
that had been in combat and now there
was one more step to take which was okay
now you're gonna get married and you're
gonna take care of these people so it's
interesting that that once again that
dichotomy that that you talk about it
fits perfectly into the way I figured
out as a guy that went to high school
and joined the military it's kind of its
kind of raising but it reinforces what
you always say which is that there's
there's deeper meaning there's a reason
why I'm thinking that and the reason is
because I've because of the things that
you talk about the way these things are
overlaid throughout history for human
beings to have gotten to this point yeah
well you acted it out you know which is
what you're supposed to do and it's also
it's better to act it out and to
understand it you know that's that's
best it's better it's better to
understand it and not act it out than to
not understand it at all but the best is
to act it out and understand it because
then you can you know then then the way
that you represent the world and
yourself is in accordance with the way
that you act and that's that's that's
optimized yeah and it's it's something
that I was kind of acting out again no
no real guys like my guidelines were
like I was raised in the SEAL Teams yeah
that was sort of my guidelines it and
here's a good example when I first got
in the SEAL Teams there's no war going
on so what did what did a good seal do
you know you did you went out and drank
and gotten bar fights mm-hmm that's what
a good seal did so you know what I did
went out drank gotten bar fights that's
what okay that's what I'm supposed to do
it took me a while to figure out no
there's actually something more than
that like we're actually supposed to be
preparing for war and and and so now
like you said I I definitely acted
things out and sort of was on a decent
path but as I got older and more mature
and to this day as I can look around and
actually overlay the understanding on
the way I've carried out my
is very it's very helpful to me and it's
also helps me explain it to other people
that see the path at home and go they
they like that path they would like to
join me on that path and I get guys that
you know when I was in I I you know I
kinda look like a serial killer for all
practical purposes I'm that's the way I
come across right nobody was not creepy
enough there's there's guys that would
you know guys that would work for me or
guys that would be around me and they'd
see me and they'd kind of latch on to
the fact that I was tough and aggressive
and and and some of those guys they
wouldn't catch the other part which was
that I was politically savvy and I was
working and I was maneuvering and I was
you know figuring things out and talking
to my boss in such a way that we could
get where we needed to be and I was
doing that whole other side and so I get
these guys that would end up not doing
as well as they should do because they
were just a jock was just ultra
aggressive and he gets after it and so
that's what I'm gonna do and I'll be in
the same place the guys that would do
well the guys that said oh yeah jock was
awesome and he's aggressive and he gets
after he's also working and he's also
maneuvering he's also massaging the egos
of the people around him so make sure
that they get in positioned in the right
spot where they can go to warp off in
the right way and and so as I've gotten
older I've been able to tell people that
more clearly like hey it's not just
about that side of the ultra-aggressive
but you got to be aggressive you got to
be willing to fight you got to be
willing to kill and you got to be
willing to die at the same time you got
to be able to tamper and temper all
those things in such a way that they can
be controlled and disciplined well I
also think that that's part of what
makes a world peaceful in the final
analysis because if you're around people
who are dangerous but disciplined then
everyone watches their step and that's
exactly what should happen everybody
should watch their step and if you do if
there's no reason for that then well
there's no there's no sanction for for
poor behavior for example