it's some on the phone it's a pleasure to welcome to the program richard came
easy executive editor of the nation dot com
welcome to the program richard
i've campaigned for having me on
hotmail returned let's let sara
let's get a little bit remedial here in terms of of the defense of marriage act
by now i'd think
they have anyone's not aware that it was uh... found unconstitutional by the
supreme court then uh... i'm surprised at the capacity to elite to listen to
this but let's let's go back to this day history of the defense of marriage act
because uh...
i'm not gonna and or let's start with what it is or what it was a should say
whitewater rafting ghatkopar cover the front of marriage act on the part that
would struck down yesterday section every
and got the part that that the federal government doesn't have to recognize
marriages that are poor and um... exactly where to put up reported date
although that would contact the magnetic pick confined by bill clinton and we're
talking about why he path the path of marriage act really in that if you try
to force ball
um... that federal compositional magnet on which would be much more difficult to
turn over that we don't have known it net
now no um... onto the few months ago that you don't want to believe that the
type of marriage act in and out of kurchatov to repeal it though
sasha three at what had been struck down by their other factions of the depends
of marriage act in those say for example that that other eight don't have to
recognize marriages performed with a new york out and that is there on the book
um... and um... even optical
to merited being recognized in all fifty date
i wanna uh... i want well
let's let's deal with that that that issue wholesome a legal standpoint
indeed if the
it seems to me that this uh... decision
based last on a state's rights uh... principal and and
are on a uh... equal protection principle
howie
if that's the case and maybe that assessment is wrong but i think if
that's the case
uh... how is it
the other sections particularly that section in terms of uh...
uh... some type of reciprocity between states
how is it that those
can stay in it
hello dot document not talented that particular locking the way it was a top
player her question
uh... recognition it southwick in part african statement needs to get there was
an argument against by the the lawyer in um...
the winter cape town as well as by jack kennedy that there should be pampered
given
traditionally participate
ito uh... now talk about that has comparatively been that the purple uh...
but there are good with a very strong equal protection element today a
division and you could read even if you believe there entity that john kennedy
was really laying down i think some precedent
accounting either laws that medication or
definitely happen
exporting happening on the state level it nevada for example
uh... depicted will go forward i think one day doing
um... even at five ten years ago caller will hear
uh... i think about the official ban about marriage that existed thirty
prostate now
so it's i mean i mean in the give me a sense of what you think from made from
the strategic sense an a on on what we will see in terms of these cases what
cases are already in the pipeline
will we see uh... cases first the bubble up in states that have no constitutional
uh... discusses does not in any way with friends
uh...
marriages as being
between a man and woman will we see states that simply will be challenged in
terms of
that that make no mention of it at all
all but uh... uh...
don't recognize the marital settlement
from new york irwin
what do you make the order of these things line up
thank you very is garrity equality indiana i don't know i did not go to
charity wyoming kept looking at what pertaining
the arctic do not have a coffee shop and on paper marriage but they often don't
have typically merrick though
there they can't go back to plaintively uh... pushed through
the recognition of capex marriage and that by the fact that or do you get a
completely new jersey and it dubai creek crafty illinois is working on a regular
place a new mexico with working remotely should hawaii is working on that
inflation folks that is that there could have lower-paying friend and i think
um... denied advocates are optimistic that they could
uh... or those with the in the next two years
uh... now that they could have been uh... managed and on the competition in
the competition
do that as a very tough nut to crack um... ridiculing the adam often requires
to a question of of the legislature q particular town that had to go through
quite um... and most of these stateless purchaser dominated by republicans in
fund it would be so proof and filibuster proof majority um... although it's gonna
take a popular referendum comment either b_-fifty practically oklahoma alabama
taxes
um... interestingly a lot of dates that around with the lord and thanks to the
voting rights act decision to restrict democratization
uh... for for minority so that there is a really big uphill battle there in
terms of on the state level getting rid of the ad
there could be a sort of um...
you know we don't magic track that happens where um... america it would
recognize
in new york but not recognize oklahoma that by the alan brinkley
uh... add to the court to rule that oklahoma have to erect ninety magic form
by other states but
you've given the ruling it out the other day am you know that
that
it does not seem like that the court right now at that moment
i want to tackle that question i think they will have to have a few years i
would get to the all these desert is that the material benefits that uh...
com with a federal recognition uh...
of of marriage but but before we do that the
beginning your sense of
i mean they're their there's two strategies here right in terms of of of
the states that have uh... these bans on same sex marriage or don't address them
at all and and i wonder from
and perhaps it's it's irrelevant but i wonder from
from a societal standpoint from a sort of a a sense of how
uh... society
uh... adopts these uh... you know sort of
he accepts
same sex marriage which uh...
has evolved incredibly fast at least
in in in
this narrow period of time looking and you know this isn't so that the majority
of americans escort expecting it back it the phenomenal capital after year cindy
sink that it's that it's
that it's important
this happen
the courts or through legislatively in other words if there's a perception
this is just
uh... this is about
adjust about rights that are sort of inmate to people in terms of the equal
protection
as opposed to sort of
um...
this is something that were statutorily
uh... recognizing is there a difference there
am interplanetary into different theoretically i think impractical to
happen at the picnic at work hand-in-hand that litigation i've been a
very important strategy
at that point they picked marriage forget believe we go in iowa of all
places amanda illegal and i love for for several years now
um... but you know i i actually think the croats three initiative that that
the grassroots push
um... he is the most important thing you know people like a pretty quick say that
right should be up on for about but in fact there are a tougher broke up for a
vote from congress the perfect legislature very tough for both of them
core which in fact ugh
both on the on these matters and he could be in the broader culture and
provided a conflict by that so you know i don't think that actually the best
thing to happen to be gay rights movement what the law in property
um... that was in two thousand feet and people became
agitated motivated became protagonist of their own story they didn't wait
purchased for the lawyers co-op or perfectly to go forward um... they went
to their neighbors they went on the radio ad on t_v_ and they carry their
own cracked it organizations then back porch relieved by the thousands and
thousands millions of inherited this
come forward and admittedly run for their rights
after that you thought they anticipate packet charismatic photo main ab for
example maryland phnom penh and depicted though democratically after the
legislative process um... cardinal obama mehta exchange that i think
you-know-what definitely influenced by the shift in public opinion and the
concern for his
future political exp
amid all of that study came to you that the uh... the burrito yesterday uh...
date they created that i think
you know if the right production that
pictured only going one way in this direction in the critic at the kennedy
wanted to be on the right side of that history side
just outlined for assisted the the the material implications
um... in terms
uh... of of of the federal recognition of of marriage immediately
it relieves
so broad based uh... that committee geez
ranging from
uh...
youth winter getting that i guess is
rebate check of three hundred eighty five thousand dollars witchcraft not
what this is bob as much but but in some respects
it is it's another one of those things where the legality sets the framework
for uh... for the acceptance of of of the quality
it well you know there are hundreds and hundreds of battle right state including
on ito right backpack patient security benefits
um... even for example there there there are blog about state park an interesting
skatepark ab regarding whether or not you're married unfiltered there there
are hundreds and hundreds of
of the statute i'm off on the book
uh... interesting thing about me i'm looking at now it how the obama
nutrition interpret and comdate convened special passport at the department of
justice welcome
at two hundred that way that they will have to change
federal back you've got my degree executive action or um...
changes within the agency or a potted palm trees invite i think that congress
will be required on that have to be uh... tough policy that um... at the
republican controlled air but on not immediately qur'an
you know that the decision overnight uh... came before those benefits contain
couple for example the i_r_s_ look approbation which your revised so if you
were married in new york ticket back and i think that america he moved to alabama
state that did not
currently uh... the i_r_s_ age not to recognize you as as married couple the
obama trish and want to change that um... department pakistan into blood at
the weird thing here
they look at that
actor state where you're measured performed uh... so
you know already capital had that that they're going to recognize marriages
um... that were performed in europe even if you don't believe in north carolina
for example but they're going to be a very articulate very arduous product
mcconnell material all the federal statutes that all the agent pete and she
came to the laws and regulations but i think that couple um... who are married
into state thirteenth date that
um... recognize at the crash will have their american electric it doesn't
matter where they end up living stand then it's a fascinating is that there
are all these idiosyncrasies in the law which of course nobody really paid
attention to that much because
uh... is distv
this represents now it is relevant where you were married
wary made may not have been before
it marital other if they are very complicated at the end their actor
section that eight have on there's the question up before taking credit quality
darden are
now difficult for me one they legally recognized by another and uh... the
pregnant their arm
actor to play the picket epic from that point and and gotten carolyn barey lava
direct uniting america than on others
and and and all that the thousand-pound federal benefits that that occurred so
if you put on here are very complicated now um... straight people didn't really
have to pay attention to that we don't on public eastwind thereafter we did and
and that's why you know i thought the talk yesterday and for the stonewall inn
after the decision to keep that on that when she discovered that she did it
because amped up because she had married a woman if she carried and she would not
have been pack three hundred about two dollars unprotected injunctive
unfairness overwhelmed her and that's why she brought you pick up the federal
government
it's it's just uh... and and i would recommend to the people
although um... mother just google herman her story is is released is stunning
uh... incredible like the it's it really images of the meeting
story and um... and then print for selena people had the opportunity your
own t_v_ over the past couple of days um...
let's talk a little bit about
the uh...
about the the beginnings of dilemma beacause
you know i i
hope
in maybe the you know
some of this may be moved but it but i think it's important that people
understand the context in which uh... doma came about are you
skeptical about bill clinton's claims that that
that that doma was
was uh...
at least
primarily an attempt
to head off
a constitutional amendment a federal constitutional amendment uh... or
or was it more
or about
the political maka nations of the time
out you know i don't doubt at all but there was i'd move against impact eight
federal continental another getting marriage because in fact i think george
w_ bush it went with the president of which i guess a india it was one of the
most i i i have
all the moments during the bush administration
was one of the most chilling moment so i mean i guess it is before the program
but uh...
i found it to be one of the most chilling moments
uh... didn't it did my adult life watching the present on television and
saying how sad he was that he was going to have to promote uh... discrimination
against a group of people in our country and there was a sort of stunning
he handled the f_b_i_ picking me up at the deputy activity and the people
racing at
and we know it so i i'm waiting for that and the publisher tapping today missus
sabbatical redressing marriage sometimes it's just that
visited their service parts that out of the been too lol
outside and making a mess shoes to chip death
banner
uh... you know that they're putting it back in nineteen ninety-six that there
was a bit like the aragon you know why he had had done
aftab briefly on the court their head back add back and i think that marriage
briefly a few years ago and
there was a here long after right wing that you know one one debate topic that
marriage other or the other papers i would have to recognize that they're
tough we would have pushed
um... by but we have the clip four federal constitutional amendment
now uh... the question is could we have defeated that without
at the dharma um... you know us caucus member that we know it incredibly
difficult uh... to get into law of attack that after three quarters roberto
state legislatures and
thinking um... on the part some gay advocates that they would have welcomed
actually that's how i respect that you know but
left that look like it but the vote i'm but let
at port talbot state legislatures in politicians gone back i think that we
want to discriminate against gay people it with a tremendous trade of resources
um... from that from the christian right
uh... and though i'm i don't think though clinton needed act or not in the
report albeit men that
uh... you know what the acting in
local shopping trip recorded naked issue go away
uh... catholic xxxxxxxxxx