- Should we get into the meat of the conversation then? - Oh, let's do it.
- Let’s do it. - Stop talking about ourselves.
- In your experience, David, or from what you've seen, - Uh oh.
how has the treatment of LGBTQ individuals changed in games over the period of your career, if at all?
Okay.
Well, the thing is, I can only speak from a personal standpoint.
When I started,
I was open about who I was after a certain point.
I felt that any job that I went into, eventually
the conversation would come around to something involving sexuality.
And it just became a part of my life, sort of sitting there and waiting for the right moment to let people know.
And I worked for a massive games company over several titles, and...
And then I was invited to a release party.
And they asked me, you know,
“Are you here by yourself? Did you bring someone?”
And I said, “No, I'm here by myself.”
They went, “You should have brought your girlfriend or your wife or...”
And I went, “What about a boyfriend?”
And they went, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.”
And I've never worked for them since.
And this was in-- I'm not going to say the year because you'll figure it out.
But this was a while ago now.
And that games developer has put out games with LGBTQ characters.
So therefore, I know that those dinosaurs either are dead or they've evolved,
or they've had children and grandchildren who possibly have challenged
who and what they are. Or maybe they've seen something in themselves.
Some-- I've got lots more to say, but I'm going to pass the same question to you.
I don't think I can top that, David.
I mean form a-- There's not much to say from a personal perspective.
What I can say is, drop a few numbers.
Yeah.
Is that in the last census, the UK population
that identified as LGBTQ was 3.1%,
which Stonewall say is underestimated.
And you know how that data is collected. It’s definitely underestimated.
But in the games industry,
and this is a Ukie survey that went out last year,
It's 21%.
It is very good.
It's a very-- It feels, personally, very safe place to be out.
But it just depends like, just because your buddies at work are, it doesn't mean that higher ups are okay with it.
- Sure. - And there is still that element of judging the room.
Is there-- Do you think there's a reason why there's such a high percentage in this industry?
I mean, we were talking about it earlier. I think it's creative.
I think that's always been a safe haven.
But there-- I think we were talking about representation,
I suppose, by stealth, in character creation.
And that you just play the hell you want and everyone respects you for it.
There isn't a world of maybe discrimination in the way that we experience. It's total acceptance.
So maybe there's a generation of people that just grew up and realised games was for them.
- Yeah. - And now they're writing the stories and directing them.
- And-- Yeah. - Just making them.
Being in our parents basements,
and getting to be something other than the sh*tty situation that we're in,
I think maybe calls to a lot of people, but...
Yeah, we are...
We have a high representation here.
It’s been really interesting to see people becoming comfortable with who they are.
Working from one game to another, suddenly meeting someone who has evolved in many different ways,
and when you get to work with them again, is amazing.
- Wow. Yeah. - Yeah.