IN THE U.S. CAPITOL TALKING TO
OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS IS PROOF
YOU MADE THE RIGHT DECISION 40
YEARS AGO TO LEAVE THE SOVIET
UNION AND COME HERE TO THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN
SEARCH OF A BETTER LIFE FOR OUR
FAMILY.
DO NOT WORRY, ILL BE FINE FOR
TELLING THE TRUTH.
>> WHY DO YOU HAVE CONFIDENTCE
YOU CAN DO THAT AND TELL YOUR
DAD NOT TO WORRY?
>> CONGRESSMAN, THIS IS AMERICA.
THIS IS THE COUNTRY IVE SERVED
AND DEFENDED, THAT ALL OF MY
BROTHERS HAVE SERVED.
AND HERE, RIGHT MATTERS.
>> THANK YOU, SIR.
>> NOVEMBER 19, 2019.
THE DAY MOST OF THE COUNTRY
LEARNED THE NAME ALEXANDER
VINDMAN.
THE NOW RETIRED
LIEUTENANT-COLONEL WAS THE ONE
WHO SOUNDED THE ALARM ABOUT WHAT
HE HEARD ON THEN PRESIDENT
TRUMPS JULY 25, 2019 PHONE CALL
WITH UKRAINE PRESIDENT ZELENSKY,
WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO
PRESIDENT TRUMPS FIRST
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL.
AND RETIRED U.S. ARMY
LIEUTENANT-COLONEL VINDMAN JOINS
US NOW, THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK
"HERE RIGHT MATTERS AN
AMERICANS STORY".
GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE
TESTIMONY, WHAT YOU HEARD ON THE
PHONE CALL, BUT WE WERE JUST
DISCUSSING WHAT YOU SAID IN THAT
TESTIMONY, WHICH IS YOUR
IMMIGRANT STORY THAT YOUR FAMILY
CAME HERE, I THINK YOU WERE 3
YEARS OLD, CAME TO BROOKLYN.
IN THAT TESTIMONY YOU TOUCHED ON
SOMETHING THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT
WHICH WAS THAT YOU COULD SPEAK
OUT IN THIS COUNTRY, SOMETHING
THAT YOUR FATHER FELT YOU
COULDNT DO BECAUSE OF HIS OWN
EXPERIENCE IN THE SOVIET UNION.
>> I THINK THE IMMIGRANT STORY
IS SO IMPORTANT TO SO MANY
AMERICANS.
VERY FEW CAN CLAIM THAT THEYRE
NATIVE.
THATS A COMMON THREAD THAT TIES
US ALL TOGETHER.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS CRITICAL TO
ADDRESS THIS, ESPECIALLY IN A
MOMENT THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE BEING
ATTACKED AND IT AFFECTED ME
DEEPLY BECAUSE I HAD SOME
EXPERIENCE WITH WHAT THE OTHER
SIDE LOOKED LIKE, WHERE RIGHT
DOESNT MATTER.
IN THE UNITED STATES IT DOES.
WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE IT
MATTER AND I THINK THATS PART
OF THE REASON I WROTE THE BOOK.
>> PICTURES OF YOU AND YOUR TWIN
BROTHER ALSO WROTE THE NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL HE FIGURES INTO
THE STORY OF JULY 19th, AS WELL.
WHILE THIS IS ALL GOING ON AND
YOURE PREPAIRRING TO TESTIFY,
YOUR FATHER BASED ON HIS
EXPERIENCE IN THE SOVIET UNION
TELLS YOU STRAIGHT UP, GO OUT
AND SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP.
HOW DID YOU TAKE THAT AND WHAT
DID YOU SAY BACK TO HIM?
>> I RESPECT MY DAD.
HE HAS AWESOME ADVICE OFTENTIMES
BUT IN THIS CASE I KNEW EXACTLY
WHAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO WAS.
AND I KNEW HE WAS IN PART
CHANNELLING HIS EXPERIENCES AND
A DEEP FEAR THAT I WOULD
POTENTIALLY END UP, LIKE SO MANY
IN THE SOVIET UNION OR IN OTHER
AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES END UP,
WHICH IS PERSECUTED, PROSECUTED
AND MAYBE EVEN KILLED AND THATS
WHAT HE WAS CHANNELLING WHEN HE
PROVIDED HIS ADVICE.
>> IRONICALLY THERE WAS A GRAIN
OF WISDOM TO WHAT HE WAS SAYING
BECAUSE YOU DID LEAVE THE UNITED
STATES ARMY BASED ON YOUR
DECISION TO TESTIFY.
LETS GO BACK TO THE CALL.
PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLS PRESIDENT
ZELENSKY, OSTENSIBLY TO
CONGRATULATE HIM ON HIS
ELECTION.
WHAT DID YOU HEAR SPECIFICALLY
ON THAT CALL THAT RAISED THE
ALARMS FOR YOU?
>> GOING INTO THE CALLS I WAS
APPREHENSIVE.
I SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN.
I PUT TOGETHER ALL THE TALKING
POINTS, I KNEW HOW IT SHOULD
HAVE GONE AND ALMOST ANY OTHER
CIRCUMSTANCES, EXCEPT THAT
PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE NEVER
FOLLOWED ANYTHING SCRIPTED OR
POLICY-ORIENTED, ALMOST ALWAYS
SELF-SERVING.
I KNEW THERE WAS A RISK IT WOULD
GO THE WAY WE HAD SEEN IT GOING
WITH THE GIULIANI NARRATIVE
CREEPING IN.
THERE WAS A MEETING ON JULY 10th
WHERE I EXPRESSED MY CONCERNS TO
SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS.
I WAS APPREHENSIVE BECAUSE I
THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, THERES
A CHANCE THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
GOING TO GO DOWN THIS LINE.
ON THE OTHER SIDE THERE WAS A
PROFESSIONAL MILITARY OFFICER
THAT REFUSED TO BELIEVE THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO BE
COMPLICIT IN THIS CORRUPT
ENTERPRISE UNDERMINING THE
FOUNDATION OF OUR ELECTION,
WHICH IS A FREE AND FAIR
ELECTION.
THATS HOW I WALKED INTO THE
CALL.
AND AS SOON AS THE PRESIDENT
JOINED THE LINE, I COULD TELL IT
WAS GOING TO GO BADLY.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLED IT A
PERFECT PHONE CALL.
THAT WAS THE STATEMENT, THE
WORDS YOU HEARD THAT TOLD YOU, I
NEED TO GO TELL SOMEBODY ABOUT
THIS.
>> SURE.
THEY CULMINATED IN THE MOST
FAMOUS WORDS, I NEED YOU TO DO
US A FAVOR.
APLAY A LITTLE BIT OF DRAMA TO
IT, AND A LITTLE ITALIAN MAFIA
ACCENT IT BECOMES CLEAR.
THROUGHOUT THE CALL YOU COULD
HEAR THE PRESIDENT BUILDING
TOWARDS SOMETHING, TALKING ABOUT
EVERYTHING THAT THE UNITED
STATES HAS DONE, NOBODY HAS DONE
MORE, UKRAINE IS NOT
APPRECIATIVE AND IN RESPONSE TO
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYS SUGGESTION
THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BUY MORE
WEAPONS THAT THEY CRITICALLY
NEEDED TO DEFEND AGAINST MORE
RUSSIAN AGGRESSION, THE
PRESIDENT FONDS I NEED YOU TO DO
US A FAVOR.
AND THERE WAS OTHER STUFF ABOUT
CROWD STRIKE SERVERS AND
BURISMA, AND ALL THESE THINGS
AND I KNEW I HAD TO DO SOMETHING
TO GET US BACK ON TRACK.
THE PRESIDENT FLIP FLOPPED ON
MANY ISSUES.
IF THINGS HAD GONE PROPERLY HE
COULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BACK
ONTO TARGET.
>> YOU WALK INTO YOUR TWIN
BROTHERS OFFICE, THE IMMIGRANT
STORY MAKING IT TO THE WHITE
HOUSE, HE ALSO WORKED FOR THE
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND
YOU SAY THIS IS WHAT I JUST
HEARD.
NOW YOU KNOW BY HAVING THAT
CONVERSATION OR ENTERTAINING THE
IDEA THAT WERE GOING TO PUSH
THIS UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
YOURE PROBABLY STEPPING INTO
SOMETHING BECAUSE OF WHO THIS
PRESIDENT IS AND WHO HE
SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH.
WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION LIKE
WITH YOUR BROTHER?
>> THE AMAZING THING ABOUT THIS
WHOLE THING IS I HAD THE CLOSEST
ALLY I COULD IN THE WHITE HOUSE
WITH ME, MY IDENTICAL TWIN
BROTHER.
WE WERE WOMB MATES.
I SPEAK TO HIM ON A REGULAR
BASIS, MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY.
SO AS SOON AS I WALKED IN THERE
HE COULD SENSE THERE WAS
SOMETHING OFF.
I CLOSED THE DOOR, THERE WAS A
DRAMATIC PAUSE, AND I TOLD HIM
EUGENE IF WHAT I TELL YOU
BECOMES PUBLIC, THE PRESIDENT
WOULD BE IMPEACHED.
THERE WAS A DISCONNECT THAT
SOMEHOW THIS WOULD BECOME
PUBLIC.
IT DID.
>> BECAUSE HES DONALD TRUMP AND
SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH PEOPLE
LIKE RUDY GIULIANI, YOU KNOW
WHEN YOU GO OUT THAT YOURE
GOING TO BE SMEARED, THEYRE
GOING TO TRY TO DISCREDIT YOU,
STRIP YOU OF THE THINGS -- THEY
OBVIOUSLY DENIED YOUR PROMOTION
TO COLONEL.
WHAT WAS THE CALCULUS IN YOUR
MIND OF SHOULD I DO THIS?
SHOULD I OPEN UP PANDORAS BOX?
>> THERE WAS NO HESITATION THAT
I NEEDED TO REPORT THIS. IT WAS MY DUTY, I SWORE AN OATH
IT WAS MY DUTY, I SWORE AN OATH
ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS TO THE
CONSTITUTION.
I KNEW YOU I WOULD CERTAINLY BE
OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.
IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, THERE
WAS A RISK TO MY CAREER, BUT I
WAS HOPEFUL, I TEND TO BE
OPTIMISTIC.
ONE OF THE ASPECTS WAS THE
MILITARY WASNT SUPPORTIVE.
YOUR LAST SEGMENT YOU TALKED
ABOUT THE SUICIDE OF THE POLICE
OFFICERS.
I THINK HAVING, IN SOME WAYS,
SIMILAR EXPERIENCES, THE HARDEST
PART MIGHT BE YES, THE ATTACKS
ON THAT DAY, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT
ATTACKS, THE DEMONIZATION,
CHARACTER ASSASSINATION FROM
FOLKS THEY PROTECT EVERY DAY,
THATS A DIFFICULT THING TO
BEAR, ITS HARD TO NOT HOLD A
GRUDGE.
I TRY TO NOT HOLD HARD FEELINGS
FOR AN INSTITUTION I SERVED AND
LOVED FOR DECADES BUT ITS NOT
EASY SOMETIMES.
>> HOW DID YOU PROCESS THAT WHEN
THE KIND OF PEOPLE YOU SERVED
WITH YOUR ENTIRE LIFE, THE
UNITED STATES ARMY, PEOPLE IN
THE MILITARY, WHEN YOU WENT TO
THEM ASSUMING THEY WOULD TAKE
THIS SERIOUSLY AND PUSH IT UP
THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
THEMSELVES, WHEN YOU MET A BRICK
WALL AND THEY SAID WE DONT WANT
A PART OF THIS, WERE GOING TO
PUSH YOU AWAY, WHAT DID THAT
FEEL LIKE?
>> WATCHING IT UNFOLD, IT WAS --
ITS HARD TO DESCRIBE.
THERE IS NO OUTREACH.
TYPICALLY IN THE MILITARY YOU
HAVE YOUR SENIOR LEADERSHIP IS
ALWAYS EAGER TO WEIGH IN,
CORRECT YOU IF YOURE DOING
SOMETHING WRONG, ENCOURAGE YOU
IF YOURE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.
THATS THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS,
THATS LEADERSHIP.
BUT THERE WAS NOTHING.
IT WAS DEAD AIR.
I HAD ONE CONVERSATION WITH THE
CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY, HE
SAID DO THE RIGHT THING IN THE
RIGHT WAY, I LOOKED AT HIM VERY
PUZZLED, WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY.
I KNEW WHAT THE RIGHT THING WAS,
WHAT DOES THE RIGHT WAY MEAN?
LIEUTENANT-COLONEL, CHALLENGING
THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF, COULD
YOU GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT MORE?
AND NOTHING.
>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO
HAVE HEARD YOUR STORY, HEARD
YOUR TESTIMONY, WILL READ THIS
BOOK AND SAY, THESE ARE
SUPPORTERS OF DONALD TRUMP
LARGELY, WHAT HE SAID WAS
HARMLESS, IT WAS JUST DONALD
TRUMP BEING DONALD TRUMP.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?
>> I THINK WE SHOULD NOT BE
DISMISSIVE.
IF WE WANT RIGHT TO MATTER, WE
HAVE TO MAKE IT MATTER.
I THINK THE CONGRESS, THE SENATE
IN PARTICULAR, SENATE
REPUBLICANS ABROGATED THEIR
RESPONSIBILITIES UNDER THE OATH
THEY SWORE DURING THE TRIAL.
THERES A DIRECT LOGIC LINK TO
THE 600,000 DEAD.
IF THE PRESIDENT WAS HELD
ACCOUNTABLE, REMOVED WE WOULD
HAVE 600,000 MORE AMERICANS
WALKING THE STREETS TODAY.
IF THEY CENSURED HIM, THE
PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON HIS
HEELS, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE
CONCERNED GOING INTO COVID.
IF WE WANT IT TO MATTER, WE HAVE
TO MAKE IT MATTER.
AN INDIVIDUAL CAN MAKE A
DIFFERENCE, ITS THAT SIMPLE.