i just booked a flight and was asked if
i wanted to round up my purchase to
offset the carving used to fly
i did it eco guilt is gone i feel like
i'm saving the planet single-handedly
here just kidding i'm definitely not
doing that now that i think about it i
actually don't know how carbon offsets
work or they're even legit like i know
they're supposed to be good and help
offset what energy plants like this one
in the background put out into the
atmosphere but how in short carbon
offsets are projects you can invest in
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions
projects like planting trees or
installing wind farms it's estimated
that by the end of 2021 the global
offset market was worth about 1 billion
dollars according to the ecosystem
marketplace that's a lot of money but
does it actually go to planting trees
and renewable energy projects is it just
greenwashing can carbon credits actually
help us reach net zero let's find out on
today's episode of canada take the
planet we're breaking down carbon
offsets credits and the controversy
behind it all to find out if they're
worth the investment are making an
impact or just enabling greenwashing
i'll be talking to someone who is both a
lawyer and climate economist when you
look closer at these systems the
promises are being broken and the rules
are being designed to let people lie
cheat and steal to ultimately find out
if carbon offsets can save the planet
sponsored by undo.org
let's start with a quick explainer on
carbon offsets to truly understand what
they are to do this i will be using this
bound scale and these toys the balance
represents the net carbon footprint of
the world on one side you have
activities that emit carbon into the
atmosphere such as flying shipping
clothes driving to school etc obviously
the scale tips over to one side so to
balance or offset that we invest in
carbon projects that remove co2 from the
atmosphere now the items i have here
obviously have different weights but the
idea is that for every metric ton of co2
we put into the atmosphere we need to
offset with one metric ton of co2
ultimately the goal is to reach net zero
which is basically creating a balance
between the greenhouse gases we put into
the atmosphere and the co2 we take out
now if you look around online you'll
actually see a lot of big entities from
apple and delta to the olympics and the
world cup pledging net zero goals by
2030 2040 and 2050. now to help reach
net zero they invest in carbon offsets
now to consumers like you and i carbon
offsets are presented as credits we can
buy upon checkout for booking a flight
or buying clothes through eco-conscious
stores the price of carbon offsets can
vary widely it can cost anywhere between
60 cents per tonne to more than 50
dollars per ton for companies it's a
little bit different they make big
investments and we're talking about
millions of dollars here on projects
that are meant to reforest land scale up
renewable energy and improve carbon
storage so the more money they invest in
protecting a forest for example the more
credits they can subtract from their
end-of-year emission reports and
eventually appear closer to their net
zero pledges the problem is the
transparency behind the money and where
it's actually used there have been
reports of carbon offset schemes where
the money invested to conserve a forest
is actually being applied to land that's
already protected
um wait what
yeah this is where it starts getting
tricky so let me go back to using toys
as visuals again
say we have two forests both owned by
the same person one is legally protected
meaning trees cannot be cut down and it
already has investment from the
government to be protected so we have a
happy thriving forest
the other forest is not protected
meaning logging and all sorts of
deforestation activity can happen here
so we have a sad miserable looking
forest now if a company say an airline
were to buy carbon offsets from the
landowner you think the money would be
invested in forest areas that are not
protected you know to help protect more
trees that sequester co2 however the
system is flawed landowners are able to
sell credits for both protected and
unprotected forest areas so what they do
is sell credits for trees in protected
areas and make a profit off of them then
use the unprotected forest area for
logging and to sell timber at the end of
the day it's a win-win for the landowner
and the offset buyer but it's a loss for
the environment since there is no true
environmental impact being done
yikes so to help me explain the nuances
of this and find out if there's a
solution i'm talking to danny cohen ward
the policy director at carbon plan a
non-profit that's dedicated to analyzing
climate solutions and holding companies
and other organizations accountable
let's go
[Music]
wait why don't i just skip the flight
and call him via skype we are trying to
cut carbon emissions here aren't we
denny is the ideal expert to talk to
about this issue because his core
orientation around carbon offsets is
based on open science transparency and
accountability hey danny thank you so
much for joining us are you ready to
talk about carbon offsets i can't wait i
was born for this moment denny shared
many examples of carving projects that
are flawed including one from lime
timber a company in california that is
calling out the issues in the regulatory
system the ceo of this company has
earned credits in california's
multi-billion dollar carbon offset
system for protecting land that he is
legally obligated under the terms of a
conservation easement to protect and to
not aggressively harvest but the rules
of that system let him say for the
purposes of earning a credit that he
would cut all those trees down even
though he is not allowed to by law
that's a failure of a regulatory system
to design a real promise that's insane
what are some of the other examples that
you've analyzed of companies getting
away with could you save fraud
fraud is a very specific word and i
think what makes me so uncomfortable
about these programs fraud is when
somebody's like deliberately breaking a
rule and what's so insidious about the
worst of these programs is that the
rules are set up to let people cheat you
are complying with the rules when you
are cheating
and that's what's so insidious about
them it is not fraudulent to earn these
credits it is perfectly legal to do so
is it fair to say that all carbon offset
projects are bad and this is just a
system of green washing i think it's too
far to say that all projects are bad
where i've come down is it's almost
impossible to design a system that
protects against the kinds of games
we're talking about i used to be more
optimistic i used to think we could do a
better job but the more criticism that's
come out from the academic community and
from investigative journalists
the companies and and industries and
governments that involve themselves in
these programs have not responded by
saying okay let's do better let's fix
the problems that have been designed
they have primarily said the critics are
wrong
the critics are out to get us and
everything we do is perfect you're
telling the liars and cheaters keep
going
and i think that's what makes this so
impossible now i want to contrast this
that's not all projects are bad some
people are actually trying to do a good
job well then this system turns out to
be way more flawed than i thought do you
see a future in which this whole carbon
offset system gets reformed and helps us
get to net zero we are going to need to
figure out how to clean up pollution
we're going to need to do things to
remove co2 from the atmosphere to clean
up the parts of the pollution we can't
fix on the ground and the people who
want to do a good job with that have to
compete against cheaters in markets that
compete on price and the cheaters win
and so long as we have weak rules the
cheaters will keep winning although the
current system seems bleak there are
other ways in which people like you and
i can get involved and try to make an
impact so then what would you recommend
people do with their money instead of
donating it to a carbon offset i think
you should be putting your money into
political groups and environmental
groups that reflect your values spend
that money on things that create broader
systemic change and at a minimum donate
to your food bank spending money on
philanthropy that directly connects with
people will do so much more for the
world than sending off five or ten
dollars into the ether into a system of
stickers that are designed to certify
promises that historically nobody has
really wanted to meet and when it comes
to cleaning up pollution we can't get
rid of
it's about policy change it's not about
individual behavioral action so channel
your energy channel your money into
systemic change that resonates with your
values and your goals
well seems like we have our answer let's
recap but first i want to take a moment
to thank undo.org for sponsoring this
episode they teamed up with us because
there's an urgent issue that deserves
more attention now the massive
microplastics problem caused by
cigarette butts each year the tobacco
industry produces more than six trillion
cigarettes and cigarette butts they're
one of the most littered items on earth
and they're made with microplastics
microplastics have been found in our
food our water the air and inside of us
recent studies even indicate links
between microplastics and mutations in
dna to learn more about how you can get
involved visit undo.org now back to the
episode
so far we've learned three things number
one carbon offsets are extremely nuanced
number two carbon credits are
systematically flawed and number three
we need to invest in other solutions so
can carbon offsets help save the planet
no they cannot at least not in their
current form or system as danny helped
us see the system is too flawed and is
in need of serious reformation so what
are the solutions because this seems
pointless well first we need better
policy
for a number of things starting with
financial regulation we need
transparency and accountability on how
credits are transacted and moving who's
making what claims who's buying who's
paying and most importantly what true
impact and difference are these credits
making on the environment but we also
need better policies all around on
things like reducing emissions
substantially by cutting fossil fuels
and investing in clean energy at the end
of the day if you're looking to make a
difference in the environment or reduce
your own carbon footprint start by
looking in areas in your own life in
which you can cut emissions whether it
be household appliances or your
transportation
and much like danny said if you're
looking to donate you might be better
off donating that money to community
projects organizations that support
conservation and biodiversity efforts or
renewable energy so just know you have
options to appease your eco guilt and
make a measurable impact now i'm gonna
go back to playing with those toys to
decompress
[Music]
you