>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY.
WE'RE BACK WITH RACHEL MADDOW.
THE AUTHOR OF "BLOWOUT."
NOW, RACHEL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS.
>> YUP.
>> Stephen: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE COUNTRY LOOK LIKES IF THERE
IS AN IMPEACHMENT FROM THE HOUSE, ESSENTIALLY AN
INDICTMENT?
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: AND THEN TRUMP IS LIKELY FOUND NOT GUILTY BY THE
SENATE, GIVEN THAT 20 SENATORS WOULD HAVE TO SWING.
>> OR THEY DON'T-- THEY DECIDE NOT TO ADJUDICATE.
>> Stephen: EXACTLY.
BY ACCLAIMATION THEY SAY, "WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT."
WHAT DOES THE COUNTRY LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE A TRUMP WHO HAS
BEEN INDICTED ON THESE CORRUPTION CHARGES BY THE HOUSE,
AND NOW WE IS HAVE ANOTHER YEAR OF CAMPAIGN?
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: IS THIS-- THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT WHAT THE
POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS ARE OF THIS?
DO YOU THINK THAT'S WORTH THINKING ABOUT?
>> IT'S WORTH IMAGINEERING -- >> Stephen: I DIDN'T KNOW YOU
WORKED FOR DISNEY.
>> WELL, THEY'RE SPONSORING MY BOOT.
IT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF SUPERHERO THING.
I THINK IT'S WORTH TRYING TO GAME OUT DIFFERENT SCENARIOS BUT
WE DON'T KNOW.
IT'S HAPPENED SO INFREQUENTLY WE DON'T HAVE SOME HISTORICAL
CONTEXT IN WHICH TO EXTRAPOLATE.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW DONALD TRUMP REACTS TO BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE
TO HIS ACTIONS.
THAT'S NOT BEEN A RECURRING THEME IN HIS LIFE.
>> Stephen: NOT WELL, I'M GUESSING.
HE'S A SORE WINNER.
>> YES, YES.
>> Stephen: IMAGINE.
>> HE DOESN'T GET IN TROUBLE.
SO IF HE DOES GET IN TROUBLE, I HAVE NO IDEA-- I FEEL LIKE IT'S
EQUALLY LIKELY THAT HE COULD JUST, LIKE YOU KNOW POOF!
INTO A CLOUD OF DUST AND SAY I QUIT AND TAKING MY BALL AND
GOING HOME OR HE COULD START A CIVIL WAR, 50-50.
>> Stephen: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS IMPEACHMENT STORY
RIGHT NOW.
WHAT IS NOT BEING TALKED ABOUT, IN YOUR OPINION, THAT WE SHOULD
BE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE WE'RE SO OBSESSED WITH THIS.
>> WHAT'S BEING SQUEEZED OUT OF THE NEWS?
>> Stephen: EXACTLY.
>> SO MUCH.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S ANOTHER WHISTLEBLOWER.
>> Stephen: WHAT!
WHAT IS THIS OTHER WHISTLEBLOWER?
>> THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY WHISTLEBLOWER THAT CAME FORWARD
THAT LED TO THIS IMPEACHMENT SCANDAL IS ONE THING.
JUST BEFORE, THAT WE GOT THE VERY QUIET WORD IN A COURT
FILING THAT NOBODY PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE ABOUT FROM THE
WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE THAT SAID, "BY THE WAY, WE'VE HAD A
WHISTLEBLOWER COME FORWARD TO SAY THERE'S BEEN IMPROPER
INFLUENCE BY THE ADMINISTRATION ON THE HANDLING OF PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S TAX RETURNS AT THE I.R.S."
OH, REALLY?
SO THAT'S THE OTHER WHISTLEBLOWER.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THAT.
BUT -- >> Stephen: THAT IS A WHISTLE
I WOULD LIKE TO LISTEN TO.
>> YES!
>> Stephen: I HEAR THAT TRAIN A-COMING.
IT'S COMING AROUND THE BEND.
>> THEY'RE, APPARENTLY, TRYING TO GET LEGAL CLEARANCE IN THE
HOUSE TO RELEASE THAT WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT AS WELL.
SO THAT WOULD BE OF INTEREST.
>> Stephen: I-- I UNDERSTAND THAT-- AND I DIDN'T NOTICE THIS
BEFORE, BUT WHEN IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME BY ONE OF MY
PRODUCERS, IT MAKES SENSE, THAT YOU RARELY PLAY THE PRESIDENT'S
STATEMENTS OR EVEN TALK ABOUT HIM SPECIFICALLY.
YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEWS SURROUNDING THE ADMINISTRATION.
YOU DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE HIM A LOT OF SCREEN TIME.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: WHY IS THAT?
( LAUGHTER )
( CHEERS )
AND BE ON CRUTCHES FOR A WHOLE SUMMER.
WOULD YOU WANT TO SPEND THE SUMMER WATCHING CLIPS OF THE
PRESIDENT TO EXPLAIN THEM AFTER.
THAT ISN'T REALLY TRUE, WHAT I THINK HE WAS IMPLYING IS A
CONSPIRACY THEORY -- >> Stephen: IS IT A CANDYMAN
SITUATION WHERE YOU SAY HIS NAME THREE TIMES AND HE APPEARS
BEHIND YOU IN THE MIRROR?
>> I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT THERE IS SOMETHING NEW ABOUT THIS
PRESIDENT.
ALL PRESIDENTS HAVE TOLD A LIE HERE AND THERE.
ALL PRESIDENTS HATE THE PRESS.
ALL PRESIDENTS TRY TO SPIN YOU.
BUT WITH THIS PRESIDENT HE VERY RARELY SAYS ANYTHING THAT IS AN
ACCURATE, FACTUAL CONVEYANCE OF INFORMATION.
SO YOU CAN'T EVER RESPONSIBLY PLAY HIS STATEMENTS WITHOUT, YOU
KNOW, PUTTING AN ASTERISK ON THEM EXPLAINING IT AND REBUTTING
IT.
THAT'S EXHAUSTING.
I'D RATHER TALK ABOUT THE NEWS THAN TALK ABOUT HIM.
>> Stephen: THE ACTUAL FACT CHECKING IS DAUNTING.
>> YEAH.
SO I JUST DON'T SPEND THAT MUCH TIME-- I WATCH WHAT HE DOES
INTENTLY, BUT I DON'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT HE SAYS.
>> Stephen: I'M UP AGAINST THE JIMMIES OVER ON NBC AND ABC.
AND PEOPLE ALL GO, "YOU GUYS ARE IN COMPETITION."
BUT WE'RE ALL FRIENDS.
WE GO OUT AND DO THINGS TOGETHER.
HONEST TO GOD.
YOU'RE UP AGAINST HANNITY AND CHRIS CUOMO.
WOULD THE THREE OF YOU EVER GO OUT TO DINNER TOGETHER?
CAN THAT EVER HAPPEN?
AND CAN I WATCH?
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
>> UHMI WOULD RATHER SEE YOU AND THE JIMMIES AT DIFFERENT.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
>> I HAVE SOCIAL ANXIETY.
I DON'T GO OUT TO DINNER, SO THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY NO JUST
BECAUSE OF ME.
BUT I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR BOTH OF THEM.
I MEAN THERE'S-- YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF A JOB,
IT'S A SMALL COHORT OF PEOPLE WHO DO THIS WORK.
>> Stephen: SURE.
>> AND WHEN YOU'RE UP AGAINST OTHERS WHO DO THIS WORK WELL.
DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY'RE COMPETITORS, THEY'RE THE ONES
WHO KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO DO THIS JOB EVERY DAY 52 WEEKS A
YEAR.
I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THEM PERSONALLY.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY EAT.
I DOUBT THEY EAT THE SAME THINGS.
THEY'RE DIFFERENT GUYS.
>> Stephen: YOU'RE MUCH NICER THAN I AM.
( LAUGHTER ) ( APPLAUSE )
YOU ARE MUCH NICER.
( APPLAUSE )
ANOTHER BREAK.
SORRY ABOUT THAT.
BUT WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL TALK ABOUT RACHEL'S NEW BOOK
"BLOWOUT" ABOUT THE PETROLEUM STICK AROUND