(logo whooshes)
- Have a seat right here.
- All right.
- And your waiter will be with you shortly.
- Thank you.
- Do you mind if I ask why you're wearing that jacket?
- I'm getting old.
I didn't want to get sick.
- I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Why are you wearing a jacket with that on the back?
- [Narrator] The Civil War ended more than 150 years ago,
but today the Confederate battle flag
continues to divide Americans.
- [Man] White power!
- [Narrator] The recent protests against racial injustice
have catalyzed the discussion of how the country grapples
with Confederate symbols in society.
- The US marine corps is now banning all depictions
of the Confederate battle flag.
- [Anchor] NASCAR is banning the Confederate flag.
- [Anchor] History today in Jackson, Mississippi,
a crowd gathering to watch as the state flag
was lowered from the Capitol for the last time.
- [Anchor] Mississippi was the last remaining state
to feature the Confederate battle emblem on its flag.
- I don't apologize for being emotional.
I have lived through some things with this flag.
- [Narrator] We shot this scenario more than a year ago
in two different locations.
First, at cotton blues, in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
- My ancestors died fighting that flag.
- [Narrator] And then in Brooklyn, New York,
at this Key Food supermarket.
For some, the Confederate battle flag
represents Southern heritage.
- Why are you wearing that jacket?
- Well, I'm from the South, born and raised.
- [Narrator] But for many others,
it's a painful reminder of slavery and segregation.
- You shouldn't be wearing that in public.
- [Narrator] If you're caught in the middle of this debate--
- I'm just honoring my ancestors.
- [Narrator] What would you do?
- You know that's a symbol of racism and hate, right?
- Well, it's just my Southern pride.
- [Narrator] This first customer in Brooklyn listens in
as Phil tries to justify his jacket.
- He knows what you're talking about.
They don't care.
- What do you think when you see that symbol?
- Racism.
- Oh, I'm not racist!
Just trying to show off my Southern pride, you know?
- Doing up here in the north?
- [Narrator] From the next line, this customer cuts in
with some words of caution.
- You have to cover that.
Do it, because they can, somebody can really hurt you.
- I don't mean anything wrong by it.
- Where are you from anyway?
- Mississippi.
- You in New York right now.
Hide that (beeps)
before you never make it back to Mississippi!
- [Narrator] He seems to be generally concerned
for Phil's well being,
mindful of what the Confederate symbol
represents to so many.
- Really? - Dead serious, yeah!
- I don't mean anything wrong by it.
- We're talking to you right now,
somebody else is gonna come and talk to you about that.
- How are you doing, sir?
It's What Would You Do, the TV show.
Tell us what you were thinking.
- Please, just hide that and take it off.
- What might happen if he doesn't?
- He's wearing a Confederate flag.
They might want to hurt him.
He's in Brooklyn.
He's in New York now, he's not in Mississippi.
- [Narrator] Well now, we're in Mississippi,
and this diner is a former New Yorker.
- Excuse me, sir, is that a Confederate flag, sir?
- Yeah.
- [Narrator] Both customers listen in
as our actors make their cases.
- I was thinking, there's a lot of black folks
that might find that symbol a little bit
on that offensive side, you know?
- Well, I'm sorry about that.
I mean no offense, yeah.
It's just part of my heritage.
- It's a little jarring to see that in public so blatantly.
- [Narrator] With the conversation at a stalemate,
Phil engages their table.
- Do y'all think there's anything wrong with?
- [Narrator] And he delicately divulges his point of view.
- I know there's a history behind it
and I would prefer not to see it,
but also I prefer more people to sort of see
what it could represent to other people's eyes.
- So you think he's right?
- Well--
- I can see where he's coming from.
- Yeah, definitely.
- [Narrator] Let's find out more.
- I personally don't bring out my beliefs
because there's a lot more people around here differing-
- Who might disagree with you.
- Yeah, I've done my arguing with people,
so I'm just like, I'll keep quiet about it.
I'll do my own thing.
- [Narrator] Back in Brooklyn,
this customer is not offended by Phil wearing the jacket.
- I'm from puerto Rico, that don't bother me.
You want to wear it, you wear it.
Whatever comes after that, well, it comes.
- [Narrator] But he disagrees with Phil's interpretation
of the Confederate battle flag.
- What message does it send to you though?
- Slavery!
We all know that.
- Well, I don't want to be offensive
to anybody for sure, so-- - Well, it is.
As you can see, it's offensive!
- [Narrator] And even though this customer agrees--
- [Gabriel] Do you know what
the Confederate flag represents?
It's all about racism.
- [Narrator] He doesn't think our actor should get involved.
- [Gabriel] You shouldn't wear
something like that in public!
- Brother, brother, brother.
Not today.
- If not today, then when, man?
- Never.
- [Narrator] Time to find out why.
- Right away, you went like this.
- Honestly to deescalate the situation, you know?
I'm just trying to not try to have a situation
to where cops get involved and next thing you know,
somebody ends up in jail.
- Could you understand why it bothered
that African American young man?
- To him, I understand, but racism to me
is just somebody trying to provoke you.
The best way to deal with provocation is to just ignore it.
- [Narrator] Our actors are back at the restaurant
in Mississippi.
- That's a Confederate flag?
- Yeah.
- And you think that it's okay to go out
with that in public, sir?
- Well, I'm from the state of Mississippi.
I'm just paying homage to my heritage.
- [Narrator] This customer wastes no time
questioning that same heritage.
- Can you explain what heritage it represents?
- Phil, ask them, where are you all from?
- Where y'all from?
- Michigan. - Michigan?
- And Oregon.
- Yeah, I mean, they're not from the South,
so you really wouldn't understand.
- [Narrator] But that doesn't stop these northerners
from having an opinion.
- It doesn't represent the South seceding from the union
and fighting to keep slaves?
- If it bothers you, you could just look the other way.
- Wow.
Wow, wow.
- I'm not bothering anybody else.
- You're the one that's being offensive
by wearing that jacket.
- I like my flag and I like my jacket.
This is my heritage, my family, my state.
- [Narrator] With Phil unmoved, this Oregon native
makes one final attempt to drive the point home.
- My family's German and I don't wear swastikas around.
My family wasn't Nazis,
but I don't recognize that as part of my heritage.
- I can't even believe that you made that comparison.
- [Narrator] That's where Phil draws the line.
- You know, my family's not Nazis.
- But that is the comparison.
- [Narrator] And both customers watch as he leaves upset.
- I don't feel comfortable around this.
- Well, we don't feel comfortable around you either
with that jacket on.
I mean, facts are facts, and the Civil War
was about defending slavery and the states
that are part of the Civil War
committed treason against the United States.
- So, when you hear people say, it's my heritage.
- I don't accept that.
That's just a dog whistle for racism
as far as I'm concerned.
- [Narrator] In real life, Phil, our actor,
does not condone the public display of Confederate symbols.
- Were you surprised, Phil, that they stood up to you?
- No, considering where they are from,
'cause it's more prevalent down here, you know.
You see it often.
- Down South, I do understand sometimes it's tough
for people to actually have these conversations
and for someone to just say, you know what?
I'm just gonna do the right thing for the right reason.
And just, it's gold.
(gentle music)
- [Narrator] Phil is an actor playing a proud Southerner.
And the Confederate battle flag he's wearing on his jacket--
- You know that's a symbol of racism and hate, right?
- [Narrator] Has offended our actors Gabriel in Brooklyn,
and Philip in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
- Maybe you could just take your jacket off.
- [Narrator] The Mississippi state flag
made its debut in 1894 during one of two periods
when the building of Confederate monuments spiked.
The first, during the early 20th century
when segregation was spreading due to Jim Crow laws.
The second, decades later,
when the civil rights movement began.
Noting the timing of these spikes,
the American Historical Association says
these symbols of white supremacy were used
to intimidate African-Americans politically
and isolate them from mainstream public life.
When we shot these scenarios more than a year ago,
our actor Phil faced resistance
from customers in both locations.
- Hide that (beeps)
before you never make it back to Mississippi!
- My family's German and I don't wear swastikas.
- [Narrator] And we're still rolling.
First off, in Mississippi, where several customers
do come to Phil's defense.
- Excuse me, sir?
Can I see what's on your back?
- Oh.
- [Phillip] Is that a Confederate flag?
- Yeah, I'm just paying homage to my heritage.
- Heritage?
- [Narrator] These first customers
quickly find themselves caught in the middle.
- I'm not trying to be rude,
but just seeing you wearing that in public
kind of makes me uncomfortable.
- I didn't mean to cause any concern for anybody.
- What if I felt like the Confederate flag
represents white supremacy?
- Well, I don't think it does.
- Alright, send him away.
- [Narrator] They wait for our offended customer to leave.
- You know what?
I'm gonna go.
- [Narrator] And then immediately, they engage our actor
wearing the Confederate battle emblem.
- Is he serious?
That is so rude.
- I don't mean no offense to anybody, it's just part of--
- Yeah, I know, that's, yeah.
- And you're being nice.
- I'm sorry, but that was then, not now.
- Think I should take the jacket off?
- You can wear what you want, it's America.
If you were wearing something that had Jesus on it,
and I'm not a Christian,
I'm not gonna say anything, do you know what I mean?
- [Narrator] When it appears Phil
is also making an early exit--
- Are you leaving?
- No, I certainly didn't want to offend anybody.
- No! - You didn't.
- [Narrator] They reassure him one last time.
- Is it racist?
- They think it's racist, they do.
- It's not. - Is it though?
- No, I don't think so.
- Okay, let's break it.
- [Narrator] Let's find out why.
- I just think people think into things too hard, sometimes.
I don't believe that he walked out of his house,
put that jacket on to offend anyone.
- Well, to the black man, the white man was being rude.
- Right, in his opinion, yes he was.
I see where they mean slavery and racists
and it does hurt people in their heart.
It does, but they think that's a symbol of racists,
and then the others think it's heritage.
And they're just so divided.
- [Narrator] We're rolling again.
- All I'm asking is maybe you could just
take your jacket off.
- [Narrator] And immediately we see some of that division,
as more Southerners defend Phil's Confederate pride.
- He should just be able to wear his clothes.
Just look the other way, sir.
He's explaining it means nothing.
- It's an insult.
- You're taking it that way, we don't.
It's your rights over our rights.
Just let it be. - It was an ugly time.
- Let it go. - Let it go.
- Do you know what it means to black folks, though?
- I mean, but do you know
what that means to Black folks, though?
- I don't want to, you're bringing the Black thing up.
We're having dinner in a public restaurant.
Let it be.
- It's hateful, it stands for slavery.
- It doesn't!
- It stands for a lot of stuff, it was a battle flag.
- We could go on about this.
Just let it be.
Let peace prevail.
- I mean, it's just easy for you to say 'cause it's--
- No more.
- [Philip] You know what?
- There were more white slaves in this country than--
- [Woman] Stop.
- [Narrator] He is wrongly equating slaves
to European indentured servants.
They would eventually earn their freedom.
That was not the case for African slaves,
who were considered property for life.
- If he took the jacket off,
his rights are now diminished by this man's rights.
- It's just that the Confederate flag represents
such awful things to Black folks in this country,
racism and segregation and slavery.
- But it's history, so we shouldn't be tearing down statues
and all this stuff.
We learn so we don't repeat the history.
I think that's the bottom line.
- I'm from Mississippi, man.
I mean, that's what we do down there.
- [Narrator] In Brooklyn, residents try to reason with Phil.
- Is that wrong?
- Yeah!
- It's just my heritage, guys, I mean that's--
- It's part of our heritage, too.
But it's not a good heritage.
- It's just a battle flag.
I don't think-- - And we're still at war.
You're 100 percent right, battle flag.
- [Narrator] Before walking away,
he offers Phil some advice.
- Before putting anything on,
I would definitely do the research first.
- [Narrator] Research, it's exactly
what this next customer tries to provide.
- It's offensive to us up here.
- It's offensive to y'all?
- Yeah, of course.
Represents a system of slavery
that oppressed people for hundreds of years.
- Have Gabriel say, actually,
I demand that you take it off.'
- I demand that you take it off.
I can't look at it.
- Do you agree with him?
- Yes, yup.
I'm a teacher right here in Coney Island
and we wouldn't let anybody in the school
wearing something like that.
- What about his right to wear whatever he wants?
- I'm not disputing his right to wear it.
I'm just disagreeing with the message that it's sending.
The First Amendment protects freedom of speech
for everybody, and if he has the right,
I have the right to tell him what I think.
- [Narrator] We roll one last time.
- Excuse me, sir?
Why are you wearing that jacket?
- It's just honoring my ancestors, you know?
That's all it is.
- [Narrator] This next shopper isn't even
in line with our actors.
- You're not supposed to wear that flag, man.
- Right, you're not supposed to wear that, right?
- [Narrator] But he takes a moment to give his opinion.
- Take it off, man.
Take that flag off, man.
- Well, I don't mean anything by it.
- Yeah, but people see that flag,
they are gonna be offended, you know?
- All of a sudden now everything bothers everybody.
- [Narrator] As Phil gains some support--
- Tell him to take his necklace off.
That insults me.
- [Narrator] Gabriel finds himself on the defensive.
- Culturally that does mean something to me.
- Well, I don't think it means--
- Then look the other way!
He has his rights, too.
- But do you understand the history behind that flag?
- I do.
That does not matter right now.
People gotta learn to just get over it already.
- [Narrator] Let's find out more.
- So he should accept it?
- Yeah, a lot of things that bother me.
But I let it go.
I wasn't raised that way, I wasn't raised with racism.
- But how are we supposed to let it go, Kathy?
- [Narrator] For the first time ever on our show,
someone cuts in on our interview.
She's this woman's neighbor
and the topic of racism hits home.
- It's every day we hear it now.
Y'all don't hear it.
Y'all don't hear nothing about y'all.
Y'all always hear something about us Black.
Uh-uh, don't do it!
- Everybody brings it up all of a sudden.
I was never raised that way.
Wear whatever you want.
It's your given right.
This is America.
- That's her opinion, but I'm Black, uh-uh.
Come on, we've been through it.
We ain't trying to go through it again,
we ain't trying to see that symbol.
- [Narrator] For millions of Americans,
the Confederate battle flag represents slavery,
one of the darkest chapters in our nation's history.
It's crucial that we listen
and hear that pain now more than ever.
(gentle music)