bjbjLULU JEFFREY BROWN: It's a stark portrait of America, its haves and especially its have-nots.
New census data out today showed one in 15 Americans now lives in extreme poverty, the
poorest of the poor, defined as earning less than 50 percent of the official poverty line.
In 2010, that meant an income of around $5,500 for an individual and just over $11,000 for
a family of four.
There was also a new analysis of poverty in the last decade today from the Brookings Institution,
among its findings, a rise in the concentration of poverty, particularly in the Midwest and
Sunbelt, and increasingly in the suburbs, and a jump in the population living in extremely
poor neighborhoods, where at least 40 percent of individuals live below the poverty line.
Elizabeth Kneebone of the Brookings Institution joins us now.
Welcome to you.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE, Brookings Institution: Thank you for having me.
JEFFREY BROWN: First, start by explaining this idea of concentration of poverty in neighborhoods.
What does that mean and what did you find?
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: So, in this study, we first start by looking at the number of neighborhoods
where 40 percent or more of the residents live below the federal poverty line.
And those neighborhoods, we consider in extreme poverty.
From there, we look at, within a region, how many of the poor population live within these
very poor neighborhoods?
That's the concentration of poverty we're talking about.
JEFFREY BROWN: And you're seeing that rise?
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: That's right.
After we saw some gains in these numbers in the 90s, targeted policies and a booming economy
that helped bring down the number of these neighborhoods and helped people move out of
these types of neighborhoods, the rough economy of the 2000 has seen these numbers on the
rise again.
JEFFREY BROWN: So you are seeing the rise of these neighborhoods, and then you're also
seeing concentration in particular.
Where is it happening around the country?
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Well, we have seen it in all kinds of communities, in cities and
suburbs, even in rural areas and smaller metropolitan areas.
But, in particular, the largest increases have been in a lot of Midwestern regions and
Rust Belt areas in the Northeast and Midwest that had a real focus on auto manufacturing
and had been hurting since the first downturn of the decade and didn't necessarily recover
from those job losses and that downturn before we were hit with the great recession.
JEFFREY BROWN: Now, focus a little bit on the increase in the suburbs, something you
came out with in the last -- that was a couple weeks ago with looking at census data.
But bring us up to date there.
There's -- a lot of the poverty is now moving into the suburbs.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right.
Generally, what we have seen with poverty trends overall is that the poor population
grew twice as fast in the suburbs over the 2000s than in the cities, 53 percent in suburban
areas.
And as we have seen that growth of poverty in the suburbs, we have also seen increased
concentrations of the poor.
These neighborhoods aren't just isolated in urban communities anymore.
We are now seeing them increasingly in suburban areas.
JEFFREY BROWN: So this other data that came out today about the poorest of the poor, how
does that fit into what you're looking at?
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Well, I think it's in keeping with these trends more generally.
This last decade, bookended by two recessions, typical household incomes fell.
So, we are seeing more people touched by poverty, more people in extreme poverty, these really
deep levels of poverty, and more people in very poor areas.
JEFFREY BROWN: Now, when you look at the causes here, you were talking about what's happened
in recent years.
But if I am understanding right, you are saying a lot of these trends were already taking
place earlier in the decade.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right.
This was already unfolding in the early 2000s.
Again, we ended the '90s in this booming economy, but almost immediately and starting in the
next decade, the economy turned down.
And places that had been listed with that strong economy were now on the front lines
of some of these increased concentrations of poverty.
And so that's where we see places in the Midwest who have been struggling all decade, but then
more recently joined by what we project are increases in Sunbelt places that were more
recently hit with the collapse of the housing market and onset of the great recession.
JEFFREY BROWN: So, things like housing, clearly, things that we cover all the time on the program,
are having that kind of impact.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right.
These regions that are still hurting from the fallout of the great recession with the
collapse of the housing market and also the construction jobs and the related industries
around that, they are still struggling now with rising poverty and growing concentrations.
JEFFREY BROWN: So give us -- just to make it more concrete, when you look around the
country, is there an example or two that fleshes this out a bit of a particular city?
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Sure.
If you take, for instance, someplace like Chicago or Detroit, areas that really benefited
in the '90s with a decline in concentrated poverty, these places also saw a proliferation
of these higher-poverty neighborhoods once we saw the economy turn down over the decade
and more recently.
And so they are seeing increased pockets of poverty, not just in the city centers, but
also increasingly in suburban communities that may not necessarily have the resources
to deal with these kinds of challenges.
JEFFREY BROWN: And one of the most important issues, clearly, is that when you have concentrated
poverty, it locks people in, in a sense, right?
You reach a point where they are so concentrated that they -- in a sense, they are surrounded
by it and can't find any way out.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: That's right.
I mean, there is a reason why we want to track not just the poverty trends overall, but where
this poverty trend might be clustering or concentrating.
And that's because very poor neighborhoods often have a whole host of challenges that
come along with them, like poorer performing schools, poorer health outcomes for their
residents.
There's often higher crime rates and fewer job opportunities or economic opportunities.
And those things taken together can make it that much harder for a poor person to connect
to the sort of opportunities that can help them work their way out of poverty.
JEFFREY BROWN: So -- but is that how the thesis works, that there is sort of -- normally,
we think that there is a way out, that people can grow out.
But there is a sort of tipping point, you say, of concentration that makes that all
the much harder.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right, where in these neighborhoods, it's really a double burden.
It's not just an individual or a family struggling with their own poverty and making those tough
day-to-day decisions on how to get by, but they're also struggling with all these challenges
that come with being in a very poor neighborhood.
JEFFREY BROWN: And all of this clearly has deep implications for local governments.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right.
I mean, there is something that local governments and regional governments can do to help ameliorate
these trends in terms of thinking about, rather than concentrating and clustering these difficulties,
dealing with the additional costs that come with those, they can do things like zone for
affordable housing in mixed-income areas, not just reinvesting in these neighborhoods
to create opportunities, but opening up opportunities elsewhere in the region where there might
be better jobs and better schools.
JEFFREY BROWN: Yes, but just to pile on, all this happens as they have less money coming
in, right?
And as there is more poverty, they have less tax resources coming in.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Right.
And that makes it all the more important not to cluster these issues together in an isolated,
economically segregated neighborhood, where you are going to see higher crime rates, worse
health outcomes, lower performing schools.
The more we can integrate these neighborhoods through things like zoning, by making sure
transportation policy is connecting people to areas of opportunity and where the jobs
are, the better that is for the region and also for the families that are dealing with
these challenges.
JEFFREY BROWN: All right, Elizabeth Kneebone of the Brookings Institution, thank you very
much.
ELIZABETH KNEEBONE: Thank you.
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