[Music]
all right welcome back the College
Admission scandal got a lot of people's
blood boiling this week because so many
parents know the anxiety of the
application process and waiting for that
golden ticket an acceptance letter let's
talk about it Eva Dodds is the director
of the college counseling service
college wise where Julie Simon also is a
counselor and in fact Julie was also you
were an admissions officer at the
University of Michigan once before you
know what about looking over these
applications chassie Pratt dossie
familiar face here on flashpoint the
education reporter at Bridge magazine
but also the mother of a son Khalil who
got accepted to seven of the Ivy League
schools only Penn missed out somehow
pick I think he didn't apply there and
Steve Mitchell you also know very well
from many many appearances as a pollster
and analysts here on local four on
flashpoint but also on the board of
trustees at Northern Michigan University
so gang thank you very much for being
here I I don't want us to spend all of
our time just wringing our hands saying
isn't this a terrible thing that's
happened I guess the question is what's
our way forward if it's interesting to
me that I feel the same way I feel this
way about taxes if I have to pay
somebody to help me do my taxes because
the system is so cumbersome something's
wrong if I have to pay a service or go
to counselors endlessly to help my kid
get into college doesn't that mean
something's wrong absolutely this system
is broken and the best thing that we
could do is look for a cultural reset if
there's anything positive that could
happen out of all of this it's to
rethink the way we have students look
forward to their opportunities whether
its two-year or four-year university or
whether it's trades Michigan is second
worst unfortunately in the country in
terms of student to counselor ratio so
an average there's only one counselor
for over 744 students in the state of
Michigan but fortunately we are one of
the leading states in the country in
terms of educating and advocating for
our students so our counselors have
professional development and training
that's so strong that other states are
using Michigan as the model to train so
that more urban and rural students
their counselors have access to the
information to help students apply but
absolutely we should put Julie and me
out of business our jobs should not
exist and I hope that they don't exist a
generation from now I want a culture
shift so that we can change how our
students feel about their value right
now a lot of students value of
themselves only if they get it just
certain universities source of course to
do that they have different paths
depending on what their opportunities I
appreciate the candor on that though
Julie we have created a really elegant
box for our young people we have told
them increasingly you have to go to
college we've of course made it more and
less and less affordable for them to do
that they come down weighed down by debt
and now they increasingly see the deck
is stacked against them before they ever
start how do we fix that I think that we
really need to think about how we talk
about college and how we pressure our
students in our our sons and daughters
into thinking that there's only one good
College out there for them or the right
College I think there's so much pressure
for students to look at colleges in
terms of which is the best place that's
going to get me the best job which will
provide me success which will then lead
to happiness and what we all know is
that you can find success and you can
find a competitive academic environment
at any college or university it's all
about what you do when you're at that
campus not the Maine yes you can get a
terrible education at a great
institution or vice versa
chasidy I'm curious about the obvious
congratulations you've got a obviously
an elite student at home but talk a
little bit about the pressure that you
felt for him to be in the right school
right so I always we like man look you
gotta go to get school if you want to
have success in life my kids grew up
thinking you know Yale Princeton Harvard
University Michigan where I went
those were the schools because I mean
the fact of the matter is we do live in
a society where some schools are better
than others and the ones with the
prestige are the ones that everyone
wants to go to I mean that's just the
reality of it so there was always sort
of I wouldn't say pressure on my kids
but you know
the awareness that you're going to go to
college and try to go to the best one
that you can and with my son the reason
why this scandal really you know strikes
the court in our household he is an
athlete he plays football so he got
offers to play football at seven of
eight obviously you got like 30 offers
right and for students to buy their way
into a system that's very complicated
the I really athletic system is very
complicated and they don't give you
money they don't give you money but the
formulas for getting in there's an
academic index there's bands and it's
it's not easy at all and and quite
honestly just like our K to 12 system it
advantages people who have money how do
we get that it should we be talking
about getting that influence out of
American Life Steve and if so how do we
do that well I tell you not only is the
system broken there's a real perception
the system is broken because when you
there's a survey conducted on Friday
that came out by Rasmussen asking is the
system fair and honest at elite
universities only 20 percent said it is
70 percent says it isn't and I think
it's because of this enormous parental
pressure the pressure the students put
on themselves to go to these elite
universities it's beginning I've got
some friends in New York and they're
they're very concerned they're very
worried about preschool getting their
children into the right preschool that
will then lead to the right elementary
school right high school on the right
college and it's absurd I'm on the board
of trustees at Northern Michigan
University we've got this little-known
guy named Howard Schultz invented a
little coffee shop called Starbucks and
he graduated from Northern Michigan
University if you're good and talented
and leadership skills it doesn't make
any difference where you go well will
you do better perhaps with an Ivy League
education yes but that shouldn't be the
indicator of why you're going to go to
school or this is really tough we have
been watching some parents who are being
vilified because of criminal activity
but we've also seen in Detroit parents
get in a lot of trouble for trying to
sneak their kids into a better school
across a border somewhere I live in
Grosse Pointe where it's been an issue
for years and yet those are parents just
looking to give their kid an honest
advantage where they can at least do the
work so we've got competing forces here
where you've got some people who are
willing to cheat their way in other
people just looking for a chance to do
it on Sweat toil and and now there are
more ways when you're looking now there
are more answers than they've ever been
before there are a lot of free resources
out there there are a lot of more
programs out there to help students we
are associated with Michelle Obama's
program reach higher that it has
developed some initiatives College wise
itself has resources on its website that
any parent could use but beyond that
there are nonprofits within the city of
Detroit that are supporting we have a
day and the fall every year where lots
of us go and it's just open all the
different universities including
northern are there they immediately
admit students on the spot but one of
the most important things we're missing
is educating parents and students from
middle school onward
I don't think pre-k is a good time to
start but I think middle school
definitely is because if you don't know
what the opportunities are and how to
get there where's the map that you
follow and so that's how we do a
horrible disservice to our students
whether they're in rural populations or
urban populations we see they miss the
boat because they never know what the
ticket where the ticket is the acct and
the SAT and the pressure we put on that
obviously this involved a fair amount of
cheating on that test we watch people it
was canceled in China last week because
somebody had gotten a copy of it in
advance are we putting way too much
focus on these tests well I think there
is a lot of focus on a CT and SAT and
there has been for years and years I
think we are living in a world now where
many colleges and universities are
recognizing that these tests privilege
those who already have privilege and so
we now have over a thousand colleges and
universities in this country that don't
require the a CT or SAT or to put less
emphasis on that in their evaluation
process so I think we're slowly getting
there but when you're talking about
large
universities with tens of thousands of
applications I don't know that they're
going to be able to do away with those
tests I'm running short of time but what
do you want to see changed these
admissions processes are going to have
to put in some more checks and balances
to make sure that people aren't sneaking
in the side door as syncher did with
these these very rich families I'm sure
balances at the school at the school in
the admissions offices to go back and
check over all of the athletes and make
sure they actually enroll on the team
that they're saying they're supposed to
be on I mean I don't know if you get an
inspector general in the college system
but there's got to be some more checks
Steve what should we do I think and it's
and it's a too big for all of us to do
but we have to begin to say where can my
kid get a good education work and he
prosper where can he grow or she grow I
mean that's that's the critical factor
is if you're gonna do well in school
you'll do so well any school and you
might do much better at a smaller school
than in a bigger name school great
conversation thank you all very much for
being here happy st. Patrick's Day we'll
be back to wrap things up the flashpoint
right for this