- Whoa.
- Wow.
- It's fighting against me.
- That's what I'm talking about.
- Is that like standard Chicago pizza slicer?
- Uh, you know, I just kinda wanted
the biggest, baddest knife.
- Previously on "Really Dough?"
- My name is Scott; I live and breathe pizza.
But Mark is a pizza purist.
- Sauce, cheese, and dough.
No exceptions.
- They're doing weird stuff
- Nice and crispy.
- Ramen pizza.
- This is not pizza.
- I don't care if you like it or not.
I wanna watch you eat it.
24-karat gold pizza.
- It's not a pizza.
- We got pizza bagels right here.
Dessert pizza.
- It's not pizza. Sauce and cheese, that's it.
- It is a pizza.
Cheeseburger pizza: pizza or not pizza?
- I don't know anymore. (echo)
- Here's a question. I got a question.
Mark.
- What?
- Question.
Why isn't there that much deep-dish pizza in New York?
- Not today, Scott.
- Why not today?
- Because I'm really busy.
- You're not busy.
It looks like you're building a sandcastle.
What are you drawing?
- It's a snow angel.
- No a snow angel--
- That looks like a snow angel.
- The whole point of a snow angel--
- No, 'cause when you go like this with your feet,
and then you go like this with your arms,
and that's your head, that's a snow angel.
- Yeah, but then you went in and gave it--
- You're messing it up.
- It's like a Rorschach test.
What do you see?
- Mark , it's me.
You know, Scott. I brought you a pizza.
Mark, here's that pizza.
- Let's make a pizza.
- Yeah. Yay, yay, yay, yay.
- You eat a lot of pizza; I want you to make one.
- I like this.
You set the rules on what is pizza,
yet I don't know anybody else who uses
a wine bottle to open up a dough.
It feels like practicing this long,
you'd do this a little faster.
- Yeah.
- By the time it took you to roll that out
I could have got deep-dish pizza.
- All right, then why don't you go and get
the deep-dish pizza from Emmett's.
- Emmett's. Yeah! You're right.
Are you telling me that you want
a deep-dish pizza right now?
- Yeah, I like deep-dish.
- You do?
Yep, but I won't call it pizza; it's more of a casserole.
- You know that that hurts.
- Yes.
- But why not?
- How about you go get one, and we'll figure it out.
- You're gonna take a few bites, and then
you're gonna make a proclamation?
- A what?
- A proclamation.
- Yeah, a proclamation.
- You know that?
- Yeah, yeah. We'll do a side by side.
- A side by side?
- Pizza. Casserole.
- All right, all right. I'll be back.
- Emmett.
- Scott.
- How are you sir?
- Welcome.
- I got a situation that requires your expertise.
So I've been eating a bunch of pizza with Mark Iacono.
You and Mark have kind of a history.
I don't wanna say headbutting.
- He won one bet.
It was actually over the Cubs/Mets a couple of years ago.
They won that series; we won the next,
but he was afraid to be on the next, and--
... Yeah, he won a bet.
- So you know, you like to get into debate
about whether or not certain things are pizza.
You make deep-dish pizza, and some people
call this thing a casserole.
- I would argue, the New York slices that I've had
are just like paper plates with pepperoni and cheese on it.
And I think there's a lot of people in Chicago,
and elsewhere around the world,
that would probably argue that this
is really the superior form of pizza.
- Their issue is that you're required
to use a fork and knife to eat it --
- If you were to look at a lot of people
who eat pizza in Naples, they eat with a knife and fork.
- OK, this got a lot deeper than
I thought it was going to get.
- Well, hey. That's what we do here. We get deep.
- Woah! Yes, yes.
Wow, that was good.
- I've been setting that one up.
We can keep debating this,
but I think there's one way to settle it,
and that's for me to make you a pizza.
- You know what I'm thinking.
Thank you, sir.
- As Emmett got to work,
I reflected back on Mark's pizza rules,
and I knew I had this one in the bag.
Which is good because I've kind of
been testing my luck lately.
- You want my credit card?
- It's already in my pocket.
- How did you even get in here?
- You gave me a key.
- In today's day and age, it's not pizza.
- I'm gonna borrow your book.
- But come on,
it's Chicago deep-dish pizza; pizza's in the name.
There's nothing he won't like about this.
- Pizza should look as good as it tastes.
When you walk into a pizzeria,
the aroma should punch you right in the face.
Sauce. Cheese. Dough. That's it.
Pizza should be eaten with your hands,
never a fork and knife.
- Aw crap, all right, well, Emmett better
knock this one out of the park.
And now we return to making a classic Chicago deep-dish!
It’s bottom of the 9th and the bottom of the pan needs cheese!
Two kinds: whole milk and skim mozzarella.
The bases are loaded.
We've got onions on first, green peppers on second,
And Chicago's world famous sausage on third.
Tossing to Emmett who’s got eyes on the action.
- New York might do bagels right,
but for pizza and sausage, it's Chicago.
But from the nosebleeds comes the delicious tomato sauce,
spray-hitting into every nook and cranny.
A sprinkle of pecorino makes this a home run!
You know, like in baseball.
Now just wait 30 minutes.
- Hungry.
That's what I'm talking about.
This looks-- what the deal? It's not cut.
- No, it's not cut.
- Do I?
- No you can't touch that.
Actually any baker will tell you that
you don't really want to eat bread right out of the oven.
That's what we have a three-minute timer there for.
You can't touch the pizza;
you can't eat the pizza until the time is up.
- Then you sit there and you just stare.
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- This feels like an eternity.
- We had a mental clock on our own
when we first opened-- but my brother
said you know we gotta--
just a lot of different ways of raising children--
it's the saying in "Kingpin" where
all the Amish took people and--
I love Travolta, he's done some great work--
well we're gonna check either way.
- Emmett.
- Okay, well I guess it's time to cut the pizza, right?
- Do you want me to hold this thing?
- No, it's better if you don't.
- This is stable.
- Pizza should be eaten with your hands,
never a fork and knife.
- I guess I don't really need
a fork and knife for this thing after all.
- All right, I gotta take a bite of this thing.
Can you handle the slice breakdown?
- Yeah.
There's not as much crust as you might think, right?
And, as I think Scott can attest,
it's much airier, and it's not as dense as people would say.
The thing that we do differently
is we put the cheese on bottom,
and then we layer it with toppings,
and then the sauce on top.
- I just got sausage. Finally.
- People don't really eat sausage on pizza here in New York.
- Pepperoni is the go-to topping.
- Pepperoni is the go-to topping,
where in Chicago, it's the opposite, right?
- I think people assume the sausage is gonna be sliced--
- I mean sliced sausage, c'mon man,
it's like, you might as well get a DiGiorno pizza.
- It's embarrassing.
- We're happy to educate and enlighten people--
- I'm gonna enlighten myself with some of your sausage.
- Thank you very much.
- Not a euphemism.
- Try to keep it PG.
- I don't care if Mark thinks it's pizza or it's not.
I know it absolutely is.
If he likes it, you guys shake hands,
a truce among the tribes. What do you think?
- You know, for the good of pizza in general,
I think we can be stronger together.
- OK.
Thanks again.
- Thanks for coming in.
- I'll see you soon.
- I hope so.
- Mark, watch out.
Thanks for cleaning that off for me.
Feel it. Just feel this.
- Jesus, how many pies you got in here?
- One deep-dish pizza.
- Oh boy. You're gonna have to do
a couple of extra miles on your bike.
All right, now look at this.
Does that not look like a casserole?
- Casseroles aren't round.
- What are they?
- Rectangular.
- All right.
- Point, Scott.
You're down.
You've had this; you've had deep-dish pizza,
and I know you and Emmett, you even have
like a little friendly rivalry, right?
- Yes. He actually owes me a week's worth of work.
- He has to work for you?
- Yes. When the Mets played the Cubs in the pennant,
we had a little bet, and the Mets won.
- What would've happened if the Cubs won?
- I would've had to work for him.
He was in a win-win situation.
- Why, 'cause working for you is such a joy?
- Yes.
Well I should tell him that being in your presence
for more than 20 minutes at a time, has its price.
- Are we gonna eat this?
- Yeah, we're gonna eat this.
Now this is interesting because in Chicago
the pizza boxes are designed differently
because of how deep these pizzas are.
They open up on the sides and then the walls collapse.
So it's a New York pizza box--
- Yeah do your thing.
- But you know what you do?
You just slide it over to the other side,
and now you've got collapsed walls.
It's free.
- All right, let's do this.
- Do you have a plate?
- Yep--
- Can we use-- ah, paper plates.
The fine china of New York.
Do you have a fork and knife?
- No, you're not in Chicago, you're in New York.
- Oh. Look at this. It's fighting against me.
It's like going fishing for a great white shark.
Yeah, like pulling against it. Careful.
- Wow.
- I'll spot you.
- One slice is like one of my pizzas.
Watch. Watch me. Look, no fork no knife.
- What toppings do you taste in there?
- The pepper.
- Right.
- Onion.
A lot of tomato.
Cheese.
That's it.
- There's something.
- I just got it. The sausage.
- Yeah. Look at this.
- It's the pepperoni of Chicago.
- You don't even have sausage on your menu.
I know cause I love it.
- It's an off-the-menu item.
- Yeah it still says, "grand opening coming soon" on your menu.
You've been open how long? Ten years?
- 12?
- Crust. Sauce. Cheese. Toppings.
I'm really curious to see how you're gonna
try to argue with me, that this is not a pizza.
Have you ever had a tuna casserole with your hands?
- No.
- So, you're eating this with your hands.
- Yes. It's not a casserole.
- So, what is it then?
- Not only is this pizza, it's a really, really good one.
- It is a pizza.
- Chicago pizza.
- OK, so--
- Thank you, Emmett.
- So it's just a different type of pizza.
- Yes.
- If the genus is pizza, the species is Chicago.
- Yes, Scott. Yes.
- Would you ever take a slice of deep-dish pizza
over a New York slice?
- No.
- OK. And now you've folded the box upside down--
- Get out--
- And now you're telling me to leave--
- I understand.
You don't wanna keep any of this?
- No.
- For breakfast? For dessert?
- Listen, it's been a pleasure, as always.
OK, I'm gonna get someone to bring this
to somebody else's pizzeria.
- I gotta get a new lock on my door.
- Thanks for following the wormhole all the way to us.
- The wormhole?
- The wormhole. Yeah, like in space.
- Oh. The black hole.
- No, it's different. Black hole is infinite nothing,
and a wormhole gets you from spot to another.
You never watched Star Trek?
- It was my favorite show.
I made a pizza for Picard.
- No.
- Sat right here.
- No.
- Yeah.
- Engage.
- Jean Luc Picard-- I can't do it
- I know you can't do it.
It's OK though, you made him pizza.
Oh wait, so what's the line?
Thanks for watching.
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- Is that my cue?
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- Good.