- Chris, why on earth would you choose
a hardtail over a full suspension bike?
- Why on earth would you choose a full suspension
over a hardtail, eh Steve?
- Because you like the performance.
- No, it's about the cost of money, come on.
- No, it's about the performance.
- No. - I tell you what,
five tracks, five up, five down, let's sort it out.
- Let's get it done.
(lively music)
- So Steve, let's talk about cash, money for these bikes.
What are we talking?
- No, no, no, Chris.
Performance. It's all about performance.
- No, money, come on.
Hardtail versus full suspension, come on.
- Alright, what have you got there?
- 4399 euros for this fine machine.
- Okay, and this fine machine is 5699 euros,
so it's not that much more.
- Well, 1200 pounds more.
- Okay, 1200 euros more, you mean.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Alright, what about weight?
- 21.4 kilograms for this featherweight.
- 22.6, that's hardly any difference at all.
- So an extra kilo.
What exactly are you getting for the extra kilo?
- Well I get a damper, shock absorber, for starters.
- Yeah, a linkage plate and a few bearings.
So 1200 pounds more, is that thing
23% more capable out in the trails than this?
- Look, the only way we're gonna find out
we're gonna do a test.
We're gonna do a road test, a fire road test,
a single track test, and a downhill test
to find out the nitty gritty between these two bikes.
(action music)
You really do seem to be a strong advocate for the hardtail
Christopher, I have to say.
- For sure this thing was gonna cost a lot less than that.
- I mean, it depends on the specifications for starters.
- Less maintenance, winter.
- What, one shock absorber?
(laughter)
- Skills. You know, this thing is
the best thing for teaching basic skills.
That thing you just sit on and roll down the hill
like you're sat in an armchair.
- No, you say they're better for the teaching basic skills.
They just teach you different skills to this bike.
- And if I wanna go commuting, touring,
things like that on this bike,
I can fit everything on it. - Chris, Chris
we're mountain biking, not touring or commuting.
Surely, these two bikes are gonna be pretty equal,
I can just stick my lockout on,
and they're exactly the same weight,
the same motors, same tires.
They're gonna be equally the same
commuting hardtail or full suspension.
Let's get our times in.
(lively music
Right, we're off road.
- Yeah, this is mountain biking for a lot
of people though, Steve.
- Yeah, how is it feeling?
- Yeah really good, super efficient,
every down trick on these pedals I can feel that delivery
and straight to the back wheel,
rather than bobbing around.
- One thing, you can't confuse efficiency feeling
versus fact and I reckon this bike is equally as efficient
as that bike with it locked out.
- You reckon?
- Yeah totally, but do you know what?
I think it's time to take this double track to single track.
That's where mountain biking really begins.
- Let's do it.
(lively music)
- [Chris] You still there Steve?
- [Steve] Yep, I'm still here.
- [Chris] That 180 mil travel sofa
certainly isn't helping you on this
single track climb is it?
- [Steve] Well, I'll give you that.
That bike does seem to be very capable
on this type of single track, but
I think it's gonna be on this tougher stuff where
this bike comes into its own.
However, at this point, it looks like I'm gonna be
buying the lunch.
- [Chris] Yep, you are.
(action music)
- Time to ramp things up.
Time to go even further off the road
more rocks, more roots.
- Yeah, but what about if you don't even ride this tech
like single-track trails, climbs, and things like that?
- Look, if you don't do that
if you ride just roads and fire roads all day
then you can get a sub-thousand pound hardtail
with a hub drive motor, job done.
Give you immense pleasure.
- Yeah, exactly that immense pleasure
and do you remember that immense pleasure you had
riding up the Snowden on that hub drive,
hub gear thing?
That wasn't much fun was it?
- Yeah the problem with hub drive bikes is
they just bounce everywhere,
don't they? - Yeah.
- All that weight is in the rear wheel.
- Not good when you're riding technical off road situations,
those bikes, at all. - Yeah
I mean, I guess a mid-drive motor is gonna be way better
even compared to a hub drive bike on stuff like this, right.
- Definitely, yeah.
Hardtail or full suspension, doesn't matter.
(lively music)
- [Steve] So after the first three tests on the road,
on the fire road, and on the smooth single track,
I think it's pretty even or maybe you slightly ahead,
but now we've got on to the more technical stuff,
I think we're getting to like a transition phase.
- Definitely yeah, I can see the pluses coming in on that
slowly, not quite there, but
- But actually you just said it.
We're not quite there because we're going one stage further
to a crazy, steep climb.
Right, so we've done four types of riding.
We've done the road, we've done the fire road,
we've done the single track
and the really rough single track.
Now if we take that to the next level,
it takes us to places like the slab
- The rock.
- And the rock which are pretty challenging
environments, right? - (name) Big stuff, yeah.
- And it brings me back to the point of suspension.
The point of suspension is there so the tires maintain
traction with the terrain.
If you think about the bigger picture,
the big absorption of the terrain,
that comes through your arms and legs, right.
- Definitely yeah.
- When you're going at speed.
However, when it comes to climbs, really difficult climbs,
you don't want that back tire to be bouncing
at all off the ground, right?
- Exactly, I think I'm struggling with the hardtail
just every little rock and root,
feeling that back end just picking up, skipping around
disturbing that pedal stroke as wel
I think that's something that really matters.
You get bounced around, your feet come off the pedals
and you're riding in a different position
to you do a full suspension bike.
- It brings me back to Snowden.
That was just no fun.
We got up there, but it was so much fun on the canyon
wasn't it - Definitely yeah.
- I mean it was actually a pleasurable experience with that.
- [Chris] Not as much--
didn't look as much fun on the hardtail?
- Its horrible, anyway here is our last
hill climb challenge behind us.
Which is a little difficult,
- Looks pretty hardcore to me
- yeah kind of quite complex.
(lively music)
- [Chris] Technical volume number one.
Oh my God, not near there.
Let's go again.
(bleep)
Nah.
(lively music)
- Oh boy, these bikes are not made for commuting
and riding on roads.
- No, for sure.
- These are mountain bikes, but you know what?
There's still a 25k restrictor, limiter so
they both weigh about the same, same tires,
They're about the same speeds right?
- Yeah I think it's ultimately just gonna
come down to fitness, I think we're both above that 25k
both working pretty hard, the bikes absolutely no different
on the road so far.
(lively music)
- [Steve] First downhill test is a fire road
- [Chris] Yeah there's a lot of reason why the big
cross country pro's have always rode a hardtail
- [Steve] What, so nice, steep and short?
You cannot argue the slackhead angle 65 degrees
long wheel base is gonna be way more stable
than that steep thing.
Hey look, this ain't getting anywhere these two bikes
are really evenly matched.
What we need to do now is get onto some
really cool single track, let's do it.
(lively music)
You go pretty fast down there, I gotta-- do you know what?
I don't think that the full suspension was any quicker
down there - [Chris] Right.
- [Steve] Than your hard tail.
- [Chris] Yeah it felt pretty good.
- [Steve] You were belting it down there.
- [Chris] Could feel every rock, little jump, everything.
It felt real energetic y'know I don't expect you even
felt that on your big sofa down there did you?
- Not at all.
- Keeps me alive, feeling fresh.
- However I will say one thing, now full suspension
is there for one reason.
- What's that?
- And that is for the tire to maintain contact
and grip with the ground.
- Yeah, a bit slippy. - And we have to point to
Exhibit A
seems to be like a 40 foot slider
- [Chris] Into the hedge - [Steve] this culminates
in the bracken.
Any comments?
- [Chris] Yeah maybe you had a little more grip
round that corner than what I did.
Think I got a bit disturbed by that rock
and then just slid the whole way round the corner.
- I think you were disturbed full stop. (laughing)
Sliding aside - [Chris] Yeah
- [Steve] Do you know what, I think you were really fast
down there and I think that bike of yours is super capable
- [Chris] Yeah that's what I like about the hardtails
y'know it makes every downhill feel a lot more alive
thing about full suspension stuff is you just sit back,
plow through everything, not pick a line, just sit back.
Whereas that you gotta be on your line, enjoying the ride,
feeling those rocks and jumps.
- Okay, so after the three downhill stages after lunch
I think your bike is actually slightly in the lead.
- I'm feeling that way too Steve.
(lively music)
- Let's get into some more demanding terrain.
Loads of roots, loads of rocks,
now and it's a place like this I think you're gonna
have far less grip
on the hardtail - [Chris] Yep.
- [Steve] you're gonna have more fatigue because
of all those impacts - [Chris] Yep.
- [Steve] I think when it comes to line choice
you're gonna probably be going round things
where I'm just gonna go straight through the middle
of it all - [Chris] Yeah.
- [Steve] and of course, because you've just got
a fork in the front and a hardtail on the back
I've got suspension front and rear I would suggest
there's more parity in the bike, more balance in the bike,
than the hardtail.
- [Chris] Agree with you yeah, I think with this sorta stuff
your feet are gonna get bounced around a hell of a lot more
so you don't feel as confident
with your contact points as well
a change of body position and tryna ride a bit more
rear wheel on the bike purely because tryna get
that fork active but not get bucked around
by the rear so--
- Do you think this is the tipping point then
between smooth single track and really quite technical,
difficult single track
- Yeah it's definitely not possible but I don't think
it's as easy to carry
the same speed - [Steve] Yeah
- [Chris] or the same lines--
- [Steve] look it's possible to ride it, we're not saying
it's impossible to ride it but I think when it comes to
pushing yourself and the bike to its limits
I think y'know there's more to go in a place like this
with a full suspension bike,
right? - [Chris] yeah.
- [Steve] you can push yourself to the limit on a hardtail
- [Chris] Yeah, but it gets scary
- [Steve] It does, but I think you can push a lot further
on a full suspension - [Chris] I think if you had
the same scales on a full suspension bike
you would be a faster rider than you would be
on the hardtail.
- Do you think this teaches you, gives you more confidence
as well when you're riding a full suspension
on this type of terrain.
- Confidence, yeah definitely but then it is nice
to sometimes pick those lines on a hardtail
and think about it before you get there as well
sometimes I think on the full sus it can just become
a bit of a blur whereas on the hardtail you really--
- A blur, because you're going so fast
- True (laughs) - Come on let's get downhill
(lively action music)
ooh! (bleep)
Do you know what, this is the last downhill challenge
I don't actually want you to go into this
because I think there's a ceiling for what hardtails can do
- Nah - But
they can do loads of things really well
granted that is for sure but on a place like this
I'm not so sure, I mean 'cause back to what we discussed
at the beginning, you said that hardtails teach you
really good basic skills - Yeah.
- I'd argue they teach you different skills
because there's no way you can take a hardtail
down this section like you can a full suspension bike.
- [Chris] true, I definitely agree with you there Steve,
but I will make it to the bottom of that hill
but I'm not gonna be having as much fun as you
I'm not gonna be getting the wheels off the ground
I'm gonna be holding on for dear life I imagine,
feet bouncing all over the place
but I will make it to the - Yeah.
- to the bottom.
- What about like some basics like weight distribution,
you can't learn weight distribution when you've got
a fork on the front - Yeah
- and a hardtail on the back. - Definitely yeah.
- What about cornering, you've proved
- [Chris] yeah (laughing) - [Steve] You've proved
earlier.
- I think it's just as capable but any minor disruption
y'know a bump or a little drop on that corner
is just gonna interrupt that grip level as you saw,
you went round the corner I slid off in the bush.
- And what about breaking, the breaking difference
between the hardtail and full suspension bike?
- Again, as soon as you hit those bumps that backwheel's
gonna be chattering around, losing grip, losing breaking
whereas on the full suspension obviously that gets
suppled up and just lets that backwheel bite into the ground
can maintain that composure on the bike as well
you're not just getting bounced around
all over the place - [Steve] Exactly
- [Other] Always rattling in your head
- [Steve] I think you said it there, composure
when you're going down through ridiculously hard terrain
on a full suspension, it lets you pick your lines
- Yep, yeah.
- So it teaches you how to pick lines correctly
whereas when you're holding it like this, you're like--
- Yeah. - So when people say
hardtails easier to pick lines, I don't think they do
- If they're, yeah - Just different lines
- different lines, yeah totally.
(lively music)
- And the conclusion, what about the hardtail?
We're talking fire roads, single track,
that bike is really really capable.
- Yeah definitely.
- Let's get one thing clear though, it's a mid-drive
hardtail bike - Yeah
not a hub-drive bike
- Yeah so I think, good value for money,
engaging, - Yep.
- and as a first mountain bike?
- Hell of a lot of fun and a real good price point
to get into the sport of e-biking.
- 'cause I think those bikes start at around 1500,
1600 pounds? - Yeah.
- I mean, that's good right?
- Yeah compared to the full suspension stuff.
- Full suspension bike, they start probably
at about 2500 pounds, so there is a price difference
however, the confidence you can get riding
a full suspension bike is second to none
and I don't think you can learn full suspension skills
on the hardtail.
- No I think when it comes to skill on the hardtail
you have to be a lot higher skill level to ride a hardtail
in the same places that you can on a full suspension bike
whereas on the full suspension bike you can have
a lower skill level and get a way with a hell of a lot more
on that bike - yeah, yeah.
- than what you can on a hardtail.
- And I think, that other basic skill again
is generating speed out of the terrain
- Yeah.
- That is great down a pump track, that is good
in a natural environment, right?
- Yeah, two different worlds.
- So there you go, hope you liked this video
I'm sure there'll be a ton of comments about hardtail
versus full suspension. - Yeah.
- For some more out there adventures check out the video
that me and Chris did on the rock.
What else have we got Chris?
- We've got Steve's big adventure up in Scotland,
up in Knoydart where he showed that full suspension bike
being used to limits up here as well.
Don't forget to give us a thumbs up if you
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We'll see ya next one.