Hi guys, thanks for tuning in to another video on ForgottenWeapons.com.
I'm Ian McCollum, and today we are going to take a look
at the two different semi-automatic versions
of the CETME-L that are available in the US.
We have here an HMG version and a MarColMar version.
And there are a couple things that the two guns do differently.
So let's dig right in, and take a look at
where they're similar and where they're different.
Well, I like markings, so let's start with markings.
This is the MarColMar gun, and they nailed the receiver markings on these guns.
I should say there really aren't any markings on the original CETME-Ls aside from
this stuff, and what we'll see on the opposite side.
So this is all ... that there needs to be on the gun, and
this looks like an almost perfect duplicate of ... how the originals were marked.
That's your serial number. However, over here
the selector markings have been done for the American market, and they are "S" for safe and "F" for fire.
HMG actually got these a little more appropriate. They copied the original selector markings, leaving off the full-auto one.
These are "S" for safe and "T" for tiro, or fire in Spanish.
I apologise, these markings are a little harder to see because I didn't go through and white them in
the way that MarColMar does, which really makes them pop and look good.
As for the other markings, HMG kind of has them right, but not quite the right fonts, not quite the right sizing.
We have our serial number here,
and then the receiver markings there.
So this one by the way, I made this rifle, so we deliberately put in FW instead of ET
just because it seemed like a cool idea.
However, you can see that the calibre markings here and the CETME designation
don't quite match the originals.
On the reverse side there is this round embossing stamp on the right side of the receiver.
On the originals this had a Santa Bárbara logo because they're the factory that originally made them.
On HMG's production guns they have a little triangular HMG logo here.
This one doesn't because again, I made this one at HMG using all of their processes,
and we just didn't put that on.
What MarColMar has done is effectively copy that logo.
This is stylistically identical to the Santa Bárbara logo,
except where the original gun said "SB" for Santa Bárbara, these say MCM for MarColMar.
They have also added one little line down here that they don't white in that's very subtle.
And those are the markings that are legally required with MarColMar's formal name and location.
Now when these came into the country as parts kits after the Spanish surplused them
they were cut up so that they weren't complete rifles, this is part of the legal importation process.
And in doing so the receivers were destroyed and the barrels were destroyed,
so both companies had to make (or subcontract) their own barrels and receivers.
This is perhaps one of the most visible differences between the two guns.
On the original CETME-L the ejection port has this little flared element to it right there.
And MarColMar went ahead and made receivers that actually have that flare properly copied.
HMG did not. This was an area where they were able to simplify the process of making
their receiver stampings by keeping them basically two-dimensional, and not trying to include that flare.
So it's really easy to distinguish an HMG flat, because it doesn't have that flared section.
Now let's talk surface finish for a moment. HMG used a kind of a matt dark Parkerising finish,
where MarColMar has a much darker, bluer and shinier finish.
The HMG one is, as far as I can tell, actually a little bit more authentic to the way the original guns were done.
At least based on the one original, intact full-auto one that was imported that I got a chance to see.
I think there are three of those in the country. And in fact, I think MarColMar has at least one of them now
that they use as a basis for some of their developmental work.
At any rate, two slightly different finishes there.
Now you'll notice that the finish on the handguards is also is in fact more substantially different.
And this is another element ... where there's a significant disparity between the two guns.
... The original parts that MarColMar used, every single one of them was refinished.
So if we look at some bits,
like the bolt carriers here, you'll see that this one, the HMG gun,
has a really heavy line of wear on the bolt carrier where it was rubbing on the inside of the receiver.
Where the MarColMar gun is nice and pristine looking.
This is still an original surplus bolt carrier, but MarColMar went through
and refinished all of their small components.
And you'll see this on pins, magazine release buttons, all of the small bits.
They look brand new on the MarColMar gun because they were refinished.
HMG didn't bother to do that.
Taking that concept and expanding it quite a bit,
MarColMar also went ahead and actually remanufactured all-new furniture for the guns.
New handguards, new pistol grips and new buttstocks.
HMG just used the original furniture from the kits.
And I think the reason for this is that HMG did very few of these, something like 100 guns.
And they did them very early on, and I think they were able to kind of get the choicest pick
of parts kits that had furniture that was in reasonably good condition.
However, if you look at this hand guard for example,
you can still see that it's got a lot of wear and tear on it. This has been banged around quite a bit.
And the buttstock as well. This isn't wear that I've put on the gun,
this is how this component was when I originally got it.
You can see this stuff from people hammering on the pins,
you know, over several decades of military service, that sort of thing.
Now when MarColMar got these parts kits they looked at these components
and decided that this just wasn't suitable for a new production gun.
They planned to make the receivers and all the small parts look brand new,
and ... it would look really incongruous to pair brand new mechanical parts with furniture
that looks like it's been in the Spanish Army for 30 years.
So they went and made their own, and frankly, they did a really fantastic job of it.
It's very difficult to tell the difference unless you have the two parts side by side.
So this is the new MarColMar pistol grip, this is the original Spanish one.
People, by the way, will talk about whether or not they matched the colour exactly perfectly.
The fact of the matter is, kind of like Finnish M62 camo,
there is a wide variety of colours in the original Spanish CETME parts.
And there is no such thing as the exact right colour to match the Spanish CETME-L,
because there was a range of them.
They just didn't care that much about making every single one of them exactly identical.
So MarColMar picked a green hue that fit kind of in the middle
of all of the examples they had and they went with it.
And like I said, they really got into the details, so things like
the actual location of the sprue marks and the feed into the polymer moulds for these parts, they match.
So you can see that there and here.
This is a little bit subtle, I think you can see it right there and right there.
On the original handguard here we have the little round sprue marks,
where this was cut off of the extra polymer from when it was moulded.
And MarColMar matched the size and location of those sprue marks.
So they ... went the extra mile in making sure that their new production furniture
was as close to ... the original as possible.
That also applies to things like the metal stampings for the sling swivel in the buttstock.
These are all brand new, made to exactly match the originals
without being all banged up from 30 years in Spanish service.
I cannot give you a good example of the welding from HMG, because my HMG rifle here was welded by me,
and that shouldn't be taken as representative of anything done by anyone
who has a clue what they're doing with a welder.
However, I will point out that on the HMG guns this little section here
over the rear trunnion is left unwelded, and that matches how the originals were done.
MarColMar actually did a bit of extra work and filled that up a bit,
it makes it look better, I think it makes people feel a little bit better about it.
So slight difference there.
Now everyone's favourite subject for parts kit builds: compliance parts.
922 subsection (r) of the US Code specifies that you cannot manufacture or import
a rifle that has more than 10 foreign-made parts.
And they have a specific list of what parts count for purposes of this law.
So if someone builds a gun from a parts kit like these, you have to provide
enough American-made parts that you don't have 10 of the listed foreign parts in the gun.
It's complicated and stupid, and it's largely there as a protectionist thing.
However, because MarColMar made all new furniture,
it just so happens that the buttstock, the handguard, and the pistol grip
are components in this list of parts that qualify for 922.
The upshot of this is it means MarColMar was able to use the original muzzle devices from Spanish production,
which are also one of the listed parts.
HMG used original furniture, meaning that all three of these,
the grip, stock, and handguard, count as foreign-made parts,
and for that reason they had to manufacture their own duplicates of the muzzle device.
You'll see the big ol' USA there, this is an American-made CETME-L ... flash hider.
Now because of details of this law which are a little more elaborate than we need to get into today,
roller delayed guns like this actually have a bit of an advantage,
and that muzzle device is the only change really that HMG had to do.
Remember that they were also making these guns with American-made receivers
and American-made barrels because those didn't come in with the parts kits.
However, on both of these rifles, both the MarColMar and the HMGs,
technically you cannot legally put a Spanish-made magazine into them, ... or any foreign-made magazine.
They have to use American-made magazines because the magazine body, floor plate, and follower,
are parts on this legal list of what qualifies for American-made or not.
So, both of these rifles were shipped with American magazines.
You really can't tell by looking at them, but the springs are ...
in fact probably the most substantial difference between these two manufacturers.
First off you can see that this, being the HMG spring guide, is heavily worn.
MarColMar refinished those parts, so this one looks like it's new.
In addition MarColMar actually spent a substantial amount of time re-engineering the springs.
And they made all new springs for these rifles.
The original springs were really probably ... one of the biggest weak points of the CETME-L design.
The guns were largely unreliable because of them, also magazine design was at fault there,
but MarColMar fixed that in effect by rebuilding all the springs.
So, you can't see it from the outside, but the MarColMar guns really do have an advantage
in their likelihood of actually running correctly straight out of the box.
... I got lucky, this spring seems to be in pretty good shape for my CETME-L.
Karl, of course, my buddy, had substantial issues getting his to run, and had to put a heavy spacer
in the end of the recoil spring track to pre-compress the spring.
Which is not a good solution, but that's what it took to get it to work.
Also, and you can't really see this because I don't have a production version of the HMG gun,
MarColMar put a lot more time into proper jigs and fixtures for building these guns
and they're going to be a lot more uniform.
And they're done a lot more effectively than HMG's, which were all done individually by hand.
Now for those of you who are more interested in the technical details,
there is also a slight difference in how these were made into semi-autos.
So this is the MarColMar gun. By the way, they actually manufactured brand new trigger boxes
for the guns rather than modify original ones. That does help them with their 922 ... parts count.
At any rate, they have this big milled down panel area right here.
Where on the HMG guns they used the original trigger boxes and mill out this corner right there.
Now that is done so that you can put a blocking bar in the receiver
so that an original unmodified fire control group will not fit.
Both of these are of course semi-automatic only fire control groups.
In the HMG gun the blocking bar is that long continuous bar up there.
Where on the MarColMar guns they just have this sort of shorter rectangular section right here,
and you can see how that section fits in with that denial space.
And the same thing there for the HMGs.
This presents itself in one noticeable place.
The MarColMar gun has a ... pair of welds actually, right here,
where they're attaching the receiver to that internal blocking bar.
Where the HMG receiver does not.
One other little detail since I've got this out, CETME-Ls are a tremendous pain in the butt to disassemble
because you actually have to, if you take the bolt carrier out on the semi-autos,
you have to take the fire control group out before you can reinstall the bolt carrier.
And that seems like a tremendously stupid way to design the gun, and that's correct.
In their original full-auto military form you don't have to do that.
You can leave the trigger group in, pull the bolt out, clean it, and put it back.
And the reason for that is with the full-auto parts installed, the hammer will be held back
all the way like this by the full-auto disconnector.
That has to be removed for the semi-auto guns, which means that the hammer normally rests here.
Which is perfectly fine for semi-auto functionality, but it means that when this is in the gun
and the bolt is inserted, the bolt hits the back of the hammer here.
... If it's held down all the way, the bolt would be able to go right over the top and reinstall.
So if you were wondering why the Spanish made such a dumb decision
... designing the gun, that's your answer.
They actually didn't, that's an artifact of the semi-auto conversion process.
So there you have the two available patterns of semi-auto CETME-L.
I think in general most people would probably be more happy with the MCM gun, the MarColMar guns.
However, for those folks who really prefer to have the battle worn,
kind of a little bit originally beat up sort of look,
the HMG guns offer that original furniture.
Now there is a possibility of course of taking original furniture and putting it back on a MarColMar gun.
If you want to do that legally, you would have to replace the muzzle device with an American-made one.
... In theory you could replace one of the other foreign-made parts,
but there really aren't any other proper options that you could do.
So that is an option out there for folks who want to do that.
Well, I hope you guys got something out of that. It's interesting to me the way different companies
take different paths and different approaches in doing some of this sort of work.
So hopefully you guys enjoyed the video.
Thanks for watching.
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