>> NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE,
MIKE LEEBIS WITH IT.
IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL.
IT’LL BE MORE THAN SEVEN MONTHS
BEFORE THE FIRST VOTES ARE
COUNTED IN THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL
NOMINATING CONTESTS, BUT
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ALREADY
FOCUSING ON JOE BIDEN.
WHILE THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT
IS ALSO CENTERING HIS ATTENTION
ON TRUMP, BOTH WERE IN IOWA
YESTERDAY, WHERE BIDEN DELIVERED
A SCATHING SET OF REMARKS AT
STOPS ACROSS THE STATE.
AS THE PRESIDENT LOBBED HIS OWN
BARBS, BOTH ON HIS WAY TO IOWA
AND DURING AN APPEARANCE IN
COUNSEL BLUFFS.
COUNSEL BLUFFS. >> OUR POLITICIANS LET OTHER
COUNTRIES PUSH US AROUND, TREAT
US BADLY, TREAT OUR COUNTRY WITH
NO RESPECT.
NO RESPECT. YOU SEE THAT WITH BIDEN.
WE WOULD NEVER BE TREATED WITH
RESPECT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON’T
RESPECT HIM.
RESPECT HIM. EVEN THE PEOPLE HE’S RUNNING
AGAINST, THEY’RE SAYING, WHERE
IS HE?
IS HE? WHAT HAPPENED?
WHAT HAPPENED? >> IN 2020, WE NOT ONLY HAD TO
REPUDIATE DONALD TRUMP’S
POLICIES AND VALUES, WE HAVE TO
CLEARLY AND FULLY REJECT, FOR
OUR OWN SAFETY SAKE, HIS VIEW OF
THE PRESIDENCY.
THE PRESIDENCY. QUOTE, I HAVE COMPLETE POWER.
NO, YOU DON’T, DONALD TRUMP.
QUOTE FROM DONALD TRUMP, I HAVE
ABSOLUTE POWER.
ABSOLUTE POWER. NO, YOU DON’T, DONALD TRUMP.
OR ONLY I CAN FIX IT.
FIX YOURSELF FIRST, DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. >> HE MAKES HIS STANCE IN IOWA
ONCE EVERY TWO WEEKS, THEN
MENTIONS MY NAME 74 TIMES IN ONE
SPEECH.
SPEECH. THAT REMINDS ME OF CROOKED
HILLARY.
HILLARY. SHE DID THE SAME THING.
WHEN IT CAME TIME TO VOTE, THEY
ALL SAID, YOU KNOW, SHE DOESN’T
LIKE TRUMP VERY MUCH, BUT WHAT
ELSE DOES SHE STAND FOR?
SAME THING IS HAPPENING WITH
SLEEPY JOE.
SLEEPY JOE. I’D RATHER RUN AGAINST, I THINK,
BIDEN THAN ANYBODY.
I THINK HE IS THE WEAKEST
MENTALLY.
MENTALLY. I LIKE RUNNING AGAINST PEOPLE
THAT ARE WEAK MENTALLY.
I THINK JOE IS THE WEAKEST UP
HERE.
HERE. THE OTHER ONES HAVE MUCH MORE
ENERGY.
ENERGY. I HAVE TO TELL YOU, HE IS A
DIFFERENT GUY.
DIFFERENT GUY. HE LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN HE USED
TO.
TO. HE ACTS DIFFERENT THAN HE USED
TO.
TO. HE’S EVEN SLOWER THAN HE USED TO
BE.
BE. >> THE PRESIDENT TODAY RAISED
QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR AGE.
HE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT
WHETHER YOU HAD THE STAMINA TO
RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS
ABOUT YOUR SCHEDULE, THAT IT HAS
BEEN A LITTLE LIGHTER THAN SOME
OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES.
>> LOOK AT HIM AND LOOK AT ME
AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.
>> YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION.
PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION.
>> IT IS SELF-EVIDENT.
YOU KNOW IT IS A RIDICULOUS
ASSERTION ON HIS PART.
ANYWAY, LOOK, PEOPLE HAVE A
RIGHT TO QUESTION ALL OF OUR
AGES.
AGES. THAT’S TOTALLY LEGITIMATE THING.
ALL I CAN SAY IS, WATCH ME.
>> YOU KNOW, WHAT DID HEILEMANN
AND OTHERS SAY?
EVERYTHING DONALD TRUMP SAYS IS
EITHER A CONFESSION OR A
PROJECTION.
PROJECTION. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> DONALD TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT
NOT BEING THE SAME PERSON
ANYMORE, NOT BEING AS QUICK AS
HE WAS BEFORE.
AGAIN, WE ACTUALLY KNOW FIVE
YEARS AGO --
>> SEEMS SWEATY.
>> -- DONALD TRUMP WAS A FAR
DIFFERENT PERSON THAN HE IS
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. YOU LOOK AT CLIPS, HECK, FROM
THE LATE ’80s, THE LATE ’90s.
A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON.
NOW, HE’S TRYING TO TURN THINGS
AROUND AND SAY THAT JOE BIDEN IS
ACTING DIFFERENTLY.
ACTING DIFFERENTLY. LET ME SAY THIS, REGARDLESS OF
THIS BACK AND FORTH, I THINK
WHAT MATTERS RIGHT NOW, AND
WHAT’S BOTHERING DONALD TRUMP
THE MOST RIGHT NOW, ARE THESE
POLLS, THESE HEAD TO HEAD
MATCHUPS THAT SHOW THAT HE’S
GETTING ABSOLUTELY BLISTERED BY
EVERYBODY IN THE FIELD.
WE HAD A STORY IN THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" YESTERDAY TALKING ABOUT
HOW HE ASKED HIS POLLSTER TO LIE
ABOUT THE INTERNAL POLLS SHOWING
HIM LOSING.
HIM LOSING. HERE, THERE IS A QUINNIPIAC POLL
SHOWING HIM GETTING TROUNCED BY
JOE BIDEN AND BERNIE SANDERS.
BEATEN BY EIGHT POINTS FROM
KAMALA HARRIS.
KAMALA HARRIS. ELIZABETH WARREN BEATING HIM BY
SEVEN POINTS.
SEVEN POINTS. MAYOR PETE BEATING HIM BY FIVE
POINTS.
POINTS. AS WELL AS CORY BOOKER BEATING
HIM BY FIVE POINTS.
GUY CECIL, YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT
THE UPCOMING 2020 RACE THAN
ANYBODY I’VE SPOKEN WITH.
YOU SAY REGARDLESS OF THESE
POLLS, REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER
YOU HEAR ON TV, THIS IS GOING TO
BE A CLOSE RACE.
MOST LIKELY TO THE VERY END.
TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU’VE SEEN IN
THE STATES THAT MATTER MOST,
WISCONSIN, MICHIGAN,
WISCONSIN, MICHIGAN, PENNSYLVANIA, FLORIDA, NORTH
CAROLINA, ALL THE SWING STATES.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, AS
SOMEONE WHO LIVED THROUGH 2016,
THE IDEA THAT WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT POLLS IS A LITTLE BIT
NERVE-RACKING THIS EARLY IN THE
ELECTION CYCLE.
ELECTION CYCLE. BUT, YES, IT IS GOING TO BE A
CLOSE ELECTION.
CLOSE ELECTION. I MEAN, OUR OWN PUBLIC
PROJECTIONS OUT OF PRIORITY SHOW
IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD TODAY,
THE DEMOCRATIC COME KNEE IKIC NO
279 ELECTORAL VOTES AND WE NEED
270.
270. WE EXPECT A RAZOR THIN MARGIN.
MICHIGAN, FLORIDA, PENNSYLVANIA,
THE ELECTION IS MUCH CLOSER.
THE OTHER THING ABOUT WHAT’S
HAPPENING BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP
AND JOE BIDEN IS THE PERSON THAT
BENEFITS MOST FROM THIS IS JOE
BIDEN.
BIDEN. FOR THIS VERY REASON, THE FACT
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE TWO OF
THEM REALLY DOES BLOCK OUT A LOT
OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES THAT ARE
RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT ON THE
DEMOCRATIC SIDE.
DEMOCRATIC SIDE. I THINK WHAT YOU SEE SO FAR IN
THESE EARLY POLLS, BOTH WITH THE
GENERAL ELECTION AND WITHIN THE
PRIMARY, IS THAT THERE ARE TWO
TYPES OF CANDIDATES THAT ARE
DOING REALLY WELL AT THE TOP OF
THE TICKET.
THE TICKET. THE FIRST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE A
HIGH NAME ID, THAT MOST OF THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW.
THE SECOND ARE THOSE CANDIDATES
THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY CLEAR AND
CONCISE ABOUT WLIEHY THEY’RE
RUNNING.
RUNNING. IF YOU ASK PETE BUTTIGIEG OR
ELIZABETH WARREN IN 30 SECONDS,
TWO MINUTES, 30 MINUTES, TELL US
WHY YOU’RE RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT, THEY COULD DO IT.
I THINK WHAT YOU’RE SEEING AT
THE TOP OF THE TICKET RIGHT NOW
IS A CROWDING OF THOSE PEOPLE
THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW
WELL AND THOSE THAT HAVE DONE A
REASONABLY GOOD JOB,
PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST, SAY,
FOUR TO SIX WEEKS, OF LAYING OUT
WHY THEY WANT TO RUN FOR
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> SO, GUY, WHAT DO DEMOCRATS
HAVE TO DO, FROM EVERYTHING THAT
YOU HAVE SEEN, TO CUT INTO
DONALD TRUMP’S LEADS IN PLACES
LIKE WISCONSIN, MCCOMB COUNTY,
MICHIGAN, YOUNGSTOWN, OHIO,
STRANTON
STRANTON SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA.
SCRANTON, PENNSYLVANIA. THE RURAL AREAS ROUNDING THE I-4
CORRIDOR, AREAS YOU AND I KNOW A
LOT ABOUT.
LOT ABOUT. WHAT DO DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DO TO
TURN THE TIDE AND GET THE PEOPLE
THAT VOTED FOR BARACK OBAMA
EIGHT YEARS AGO BUT VOTED FOR
DONALD TRUMP IN 2016.
HOW DO DEMOCRATS GET HIM BACK ON
THEIR SIDES NEXT YEAR?
>> I THINK THERE’S ACTUALLY EVEN
A PARTICULAR SUBSET OF THAT
VOTE.
VOTE. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THERE
ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE THAT, FOR
EXAMPLE, IN WISCONSIN, VOTED FOR
DONALD TRUMP, THEN VOTED FOR
TAMMY BALDWIN.
TAMMY BALDWIN. THERE ARE PEOPLE IN PENNSYLVANIA
THAT VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP,
THEN WENT ON TO VOTE FOR THE
DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE RACE
THERE.
THERE. SO THERE ARE VOTERS THAT ARE
WILLING TO BE OPEN OR RECEPTIVE
TO A DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE.
FRANKLY, THE SAME THINGS THAT WE
SHOULD BE TALKING TO DEMOCRATIC
VOTERS ABOUT ARE THE SAME THINGS
WE SHOULD BE TALKING TO FOLKS IN
YOUNGSTOWN ABOUT.
YOUNGSTOWN ABOUT. WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
HEALTH CARE, ABOUT WAGES.
WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY. WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
EDUCATION.
EDUCATION. THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT THOSE
ISSUES, HOW WE CREATE MORE
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
MIDDLE CLASS AND FOR THOSE THAT
ASPIRE TO BE IN IT, THE BETTER
WE’RE GOING TO DO.
THERE IS A HUGE DISCONNECT AMONG
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BETWEEN HOW
THEY VIEW DONALD TRUMP’S ECONOMY
VERSUS WHETHER OR NOT THEY THINK
THAT ECONOMY IS HAVING AN IMPACT
ON THEIR LIVES.
SO WHEN YOU SEE POLLS THAT SAY
50%, 55%, 60% OF AMERICANS
APPROVE OF THE WAY DONALD TRUMP
IS HANDLING THE ECONOMY, THOSE
SAME POLLS SAY THAT 70% OF
AMERICANS DON’T BELIEVE THAT
THEIR WAGES WILL KEEP UP WITH
THE COST OF LIVING OR THE RISING
COST OF HEALTH CARE.
WE SAW HOW TO BEAT REPUBLICANS.
WE DID IT IN 2018 ON HEALTH
CARE.
CARE. WE CAN DO IT AGAIN IN 2020 IF WE
FOCUS ON HEALTH CARE AND WAGES.
I WANT TO JUST REEMPHASIZE THIS
POINT, IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT
GETTING THOSE VOTERS THAT VOTED
FOR OBAMA AND THEN VOTED FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. THERE ARE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS THAT
SAT ON THE SIDELINES IN 2016
BECAUSE DEMOCRATS DID NOT DO A
GOOD JOB OF TALKING ABOUT THE
ECONOMY, WAGES, HEALTH CARE, AND
EDUCATION ON A CONSISTENT BASIS,
IN A WAY THAT THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE WERE READY TO HEAR.
I THINK IF WE FOCUS ON THOSE
THINGS, WE’LL ULTIMATELY BE
SUCCESSFUL IN THE FOUR STATES
THAT GET THE MOST ATTENTION
TODAY, WISCONSIN, PENNSYLVANIA,
MICHIGAN, AND FLORIDA.
>> A LOT OF THE CANDIDATES ARE
TALKING ABOUT JOBS, THE ECONOMY,
INEQUALITY.
INEQUALITY. TO GO BACK TO DONALD TRUMP’S
CRITICISM OF JOE BIDEN ABOUT
AGE, WE CAN KIND OF PUT THAT TO
THE SIDE.
THE SIDE. THE LARGER QUESTION IS A
GENERATIONAL ONE.
GENERATIONAL ONE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT A PARTY THAT
VIEWS ITSELF AS SORT OF THE WOKE
PARTY, A NEW GENERATION OF
LEADERSHIP, YOU LOOK AT THE TOP
OF THE POLLING AND YOU HAVE JOE
BIDEN, WHO WOULD BE 78 YEARS
OLD, A WHITE MAN.
YOU HAVE BERNIE SANDERS, 78
YEARS OLD IF HE WERE TO WIN, A
WHITE MAN.
WHITE MAN. THEN YOU GO DOWN THE LIST.
OF COURSE, YOU HAVE KAMALA
HARRIS, ELIZABETH WARREN, MAYOR
PETE, SENATOR BOOKER.
YOU HAVE NEW FACES AND YOUNGER
GENERATION OF LEADERSHIP THERE.
HOW DOES THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
GRAPPLE WITH THAT, THAT ITS
FRONT RUNNER DOESN’T NECESSARILY
REPRESENT THE NEW GENERATION OF
LEADERSHIP AND THE NEW VIEW OF
THE WORLD?
THE WORLD? >> GUY LAID IT OUT WELL, WILLIE.
HE SAID THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT A
RACE RIGHT NOW THAT IS PRETTY
MUCH IN TWO TIERS.
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, AND WHAT HE
SAID WAS, YOU HAVE TO FIRST TWO
WHO ARE -- IT IS PRETTY MUCH A
NAME ID.
NAME ID. PEOPLE KNOW JOE BIDEN, AS WE’VE
TALKED ABOUT.
TALKED ABOUT. VICE PRESIDENT, UNCLE JOE, VERY
NOSTALGIC WAY OF THE OBAMA DAYS.
THEN YOU HAVE BERNIE SANDERS,
WHO RAN A VERY INCREDIBLE RACE
IN 2016.
IN 2016. PEOPLE REMEMBER THAT POLITICAL
REVOLUTION.
REVOLUTION. THEN YOU HAVE KIND OF THE
YOUNGER CROWD THAT YOU’RE
TALKING ABOUT, WILLIE, WHO ARE
TALKING ABOUT THEIR VISION,
TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY’RE GOING
TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD.
IN PARTICULAR, PETE BUTTIGIEG,
THE YOUNGEST OF THEM ALL.
THEY’RE STARTING TO SURGE, ALONG
WITH ELIZABETH WARREN, TALKING
ABOUT POLICY.
ABOUT POLICY. IT IS REALLY STILL VERY EARLY,
AND WE’RE SEEING SOME MOVEMENT
THERE.
THERE. I’VE GOT TO TELL YOU, JOE BIDEN
WAS GIVEN A GIFT YESTERDAY BY
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. I MEAN, HE GOT EXACTLY WHAT ANY
DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE WOULD WANT,
IS A ONE-ON-ONE IN A GENERAL
ELECTION WITH THE MAN YOU’RE
TRYING TO BEAT.
DONALD TRUMP GAVE HIM THAT GIFT.
WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
LIKE I SAID, IT’S EARLY.
IT IS NOT A GENERAL ELECTION.
IT’S A PRIMARY.
WE HAVE A LARGE FIELD WITH
REALLY IMPRESSIVE PEOPLE AND
DIVERSE.
DIVERSE. ONE MORE THING I WANT TO SAY
THAT I HAVEN’T HEARD THAT I
FEAR, THAT I’M REALLY SCARED
ABOUT, IS DONALD TRUMP IS A
DESPERATE MAN.
DESPERATE MAN. HE KNOWS THAT HE IS INDIVIDUAL
ONE, CO-CONSPIRATOR.
ONE, CO-CONSPIRATOR. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS SAID
IF HE WASN’T PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, HE WOULD BE
INDICTED RIGHT NOW.
WHEN YOU HAVE A DESPERATE
INDIVIDUAL LIKE DONALD TRUMP
GOING INTO 2020, THAT’S A SCARY,
SCARY MOMENT FOR US THAT’S
COMING UP IN 2020.
AND HE HAS A BETTER OPERATIONAL
CAMPAIGN THAN HE HAD IN 2016.
HE HAS MORE THAN $100 MILLION.
HE RAISED TENS OF MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS DURING THE MIDTERMS,
WHICH IS UNPRECEDENTED FOR A
PRESIDENT TO DO.
SO WE ARE -- IT IS GOING TO BE A
TIGHT ELECTION IN 2020.
IT IS GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY
NASTY.
NASTY. >> LET ME COUNTER THAT THOUGH.
HE MAY BE A DESPERATE MAN.
HE MAY BE FRIGHTENING TO SOME.
HE’S ALSO VERY DAMAGED.
>> YEAH, IT’S TRUE.
>> YOU CAN SEE IT IN HIS
BEHAVIOR.
BEHAVIOR. YOU CAN SEE IT IN HIS
PHYSICAL -- WHAT HE PUTS OUT
PHYSICALLY.
PHYSICALLY. ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TIME
AROUND, NO ONE KNEW HOW TO DEAL
WITH HIM BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW
WHAT WAS COMING.
I MEAN, SOME OF THIS STUFF THAT
HE WOULD SAY WAS JUST SO OUT
THERE THAT PEOPLE WERE JUST
CAUGHT FLAT FOOTED BECAUSE NO
ONE HAS EVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE
IT BEFORE.
IT BEFORE. WE HAVE DEALING WITH THIS GUY
FOR YEARS NOW.
PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT.
PEOPLE ARE TUNING IT OUT.
PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THE PUNCH