so the Chinese telecoms giant is safe
enough to be given a role in the new 5g
network but not safe enough to be
allowed near sensitive locations such as
nuclear sites and military bases the
announcement of who always continued
role in 5g was made after a meeting with
cabinet ministers and security chiefs so
will there be a diplomatic clash with
the United States and could Tory MPs
were bellover the matter our political
editor Gary Gibbon is in Westminster now
Gary you'll remember one of the slogans
that Boris Johnson repeated a lot in
that election in December was a full
fibre broadband he wanted faster
connectivity which he thought would
contribute to economic growth which
would allow him the money he wanted to
spend on certain goodies well if he
pulled huawei completely out of the
equation on 5g there so embedded in
there it would have quite serious
implications for that entire program
costs delays the restrictions he's
decided to go with on their involvement
that probably brings some significant
cost and a little bit of delay but
nothing like what a complete ban would
bring so that leaves him dealing with
the United States
we heard blood-curdling language from
some supporters of Donald Trump today
who along with the President himself
have been saying that there should be no
involvement of Huawei whatsoever in 5g
in this country and we haven't actually
heard from Donald Trump himself yet but
bated breath we might yet and as you
said Tory MPs some of them not all of
them but some of them political bed foes
from the brexit crisis with alongside
Boris Johnson back then have been
raising their voices with their concerns
about while we're having anything to do
with 5g or at the very least they want
to see a pathway for it to be removed
completely they're not confident they've
seen that he has a massive majority of
course but he needs to pass a law to get
this restriction on the market into
statute and right now you have to say
amazingly with that whopping majority a
few of his parliamentary number
crunchers are a bit edgy
the United States said Britain shouldn't
let huawei anywhere near its 5g network
it's already well embedded we've gone
too deep to turn back one white also
said and they're too good the National
Security Council agreed to let Huawei be
part of the UK's 5g development but
rained it in at 35 percent market share
do you think why we should be allowed to
build our 5g network mr. Wallace at a
meeting of the National Security Council
this morning critics like the defense
secretary signed up to the policy do you
think it's dangerous to let quiet we
build our 5g Network mr. Wallace in the
Commons for the first time since the
election the people who used to cause
trouble alongside Boris Johnson were
causing trouble for him and say yes I do
think quali should be banned from our
networks it was founded by a member of
the PLA even well even who were not
enough of the Chinese government the
2017 law requires a tech instruction
from the Chinese and Turkish agency does
he now believe that China is a threat to
us in cyber security and will II
guarantee that as he takes on those
threats to us does he think that he will
now drive Huawei out of our future
systems progressively as quickly as he
can stay I think my right humble friend
in Duncan Smith heckled his old brexit
ally the Foreign Secretary's critics of
the decision worried that a company that
can take orders from the Chinese
government could construct backdoors in
to 5g technology which could disrupt or
crash systems 5g means faster downloads
on equipment like phones or computers it
speeds up response time and reliability
you can get more storage capacity and
access it quicker but 5g also gives the
scope for much more real-time data
exchanges between say driverless cars
fridges monitoring their contents and
smart factories that could start running
themselves the government's decided to
restrict Huawei from sensitive parts of
the 5g network and from sensitive areas
like nuclear weapons or energy sites
restricting market share means some
company is already exceeding that with
their faraway equipment we'll have to
strip it out if they want to buy a new a
kit having to rip out huawei entirely
would cost them hundreds of millions of
pounds so any change will involve some
kind of financial impact for them we did
some research which looked at a 50
percent restriction of huawei across
Britain and we found that probably would
result in something like an 18-month
delay to the launch of 5g and as much as
4.5 billion pound hit to economic
development as a result who will work
with other vendors in the UK - to make
sure there's diversity in the market and
we're happy with the business that we've
been given are you happy about the fact
you work for a company that makes the
British state so nervous well with
pleased today because the UK government
has accepted us into with the UK
networked and hemmed you in and limited
you banned you from core networks banned
you from sensitive areas continuing the
need to examine all your equipment for
security reasons so there are a number
of mitigations in place and we're
comfortable with those we've been
working with the UK government for 15
years now allies of President Trump
attacked the decision congresswoman Liz
Cheney daughter of the former vice
president said by allowing hallway into
the UK 5g network Boris Johnson has
chosen the surveillance state over the
special relationship Senator McCrum knee
former Republican presidential candidate
said by prioritizing costs the UK is
sacrificing national security and
inviting the Chinese Communist Party
surveillance state in
some argue the US is suffering a Sputnik
moment an echo of 1957 when the United
States discovered the Communist Soviet
Union beating it in the space race there
are echoes of that fear today as the
United States falls behind China's lead
in cyberspace some in Whitehall think
it's that worry not hard evidence of
China's dark intent that is driving the
u.s. they doubt the United States
threats to restrict intelligence sharing
at the UK I don't think that the voices
that we've heard in the British debate
from Washington represent the American
intelligence community I think they are
mostly political people around the
administration in the White House and
that relationship between the two
intelligence communities is so deep and
so trusting so important to both sides I
don't think that that is going to be
threatened GCHQ have categorically
confirmed that how we construct our 5-g
in full fiber public telecoms network
has nothing to do with how we share
classified data and the UK's technical
security experts have agreed that the
new controls on high-risk vendors are
completely consistent with the UK's
security needs the government here says
the answer is to build up Western rivals
too far way something Boris Johnson told
President Trump by phone this afternoon
but catching up China on 5g is not going
to be easy or cheap well joining me now
from the House of Commons is the Labour
MP Kevin Jones who has served on the
Intelligence and Security Committee and
is hoping to be reappointed to that and
Tom to ghen Hart who was chairman of the
Foreign Affairs Select Committee and is
also hoping to be reelected to that Tom
chicken-heart when these security
services and former national security
advisors are sure that this is all fine
why are you so sure that it's a mistake
well I think there's a real problem with
Huawei that is nothing to do with the
United States or nothing to do with
Australia but is everything to do with
the way this Chinese company is
structured and indeed the government
itself recognizes that after all that's
why the government described
as a high-risk vendor there's no reason
to describe it as a high-risk vendor if
you don't think it is one but it fails
all eight tests that the government set
out and so the government clearly is
concerned and that's why I support very
much the government's efforts that it's
made in order to identify high-risk
vendors in recent months but I'm very
very keen that the plan outlined today
is not a target of 35% but merely a
Waypoint of 35% on the way to a target
of zero Kevin Jones if there is a high
risk from who are we limiting it's a 35%
is not really going to eliminate that
risk is it well no because if you look
at the evidence which is produced by
GCHQ and was provided to the Internet
Security Committee
what risk there is can be mitigated the
nonsense has been talking about for
example that it will be able to get
involved in the five areas secure
networks it's just rubbish what we need
to do here is actually look at the facts
and the facts are is is that scoot
services have done a very detailed and
intensive investigation into this and I
think the assurance that have given our
robust Tom Saguna well I I'm sure Kevin
is absolutely right that the ability to
get into our secure communications
systems is zero but that isn't the point
for this system this system is based on
the 5g system forgive me is based on the
idea that many different items will
communicate together creating much more
data than is available now from you know
autonomous vehicles to cracking any any
number of different items that sort of
communicate together through the 5g
network and so the key is here to look
at the reality that the the core and
edge distinction are being eroded and
that's why I'm absolutely adamant that
the government as it has announced it so
far
is a welcome progress on the existing
situation but I'm very keen to see this
going to zero not just a 35 percent but
what are you afraid that China would do
well we've already seen what China has
done it's not a question of being afraid
of what it might do is what it has done
if you look at for example the African
Union in Ethiopia that has been sending
packets of data such as Chen Zhen
between midnight and 2:00 in the morning
from Huawei systems the
in Uganda we've got reports of hikvision
using huawei technology sending
information from Tanzania and we know
that hikvision and Huawei are both
integral to the police state that is
Singh Shang where some million or so
Uighur Muslims are already in detention
so it's we know that Huawei is part of
the security state in China and we know
that this is causing concern even for
example to the Communist Vietnamese so
although I am absolutely confident that
GCHQ are right that they can mitigate
there the challenges immediately I think
it's very interesting that it was the
mi5 chief and not six or GCHQ who came
up to argue that all this was fine Kevin
Jones is it that you believe that the
opposition to our way is really more to
do with an American trade war of which
Britain is not part now those two issues
I think the examples that Tom gave
you're not comparing like with like in
the UK it's not just security services
that could intercept any intercepts but
also the vendors the BTS the Vodafone
this world as well but the real
I think stark contrast here is is that
we have a system which has been
described afternoon to market failure
it's not it's actually a country which
is made of an aggressive attempt to
dominate this technology and where we're
lacking in the West and I certain in
this country is the technology and
investment that's needed in this this
area of technology that is market
failing well it's not market failure
it's it's is that we've actually turned
a blind eye that to the fact that the
Chinese have invested billions of
dollars in research and development and
actually acquired technologies from the
West and what I asked this afternoon was
what percentage of monies the government
going to put into R&D and also are they
going to stop for example Chinese
companies acquiring uk-based
technologists if they don't
do those two things the idea of actually
providing a new system he's not going to
happen I'm thinking how a lot of your
colleagues are very concerned about this
I mean do you think the legislation that
needs to be put through could be amended
well look I think Kevin's absolutely
right that the investment that needs to
go into the 5g technology this has been
a failure of regulation of failure
investment since 2003 and perhaps even
longer so this is this is not a partisan
issue and indeed it like in the United
States this is not a partisan issue what
we need to do is we need to secure our
own ground rules and technology here we
need to make sure we work with our five
eyes partners to create systems that
actually really do work for all of us
and we need to make sure that we get
those high risk vendors out of our
system as quickly as possible now I I
don't think you could change the
decision I mean this isn't the end of it
well I'm looking forward to seeing what
the bill is that comes forward the
Foreign Secretary announced that there
was a bill coming forward very soon and
I'm very much looking forward to seeing
and I'm very much looking forward to
working with the government who has made
real progress here on the existing
situation I mean let's you know let's
recognize progress where it is and
that's what this government has done but
I think there's a there's a lot further
to go because the reality is if you have
high-risk vendors as the government
calls them in your system then you've
really got to be looking at ways to get
them out