Speaker 1 (00:00): Curious about becoming a
fashion lawyer well you're in luck, because in today's video, we are diving into what fashion
law is and what it actually looks like to practice it. If you guys are new to the channel welcome,
I'm Angela Vorpahl of angelavorpahl.com And the law school network Facebook group.
And the truth of the matter is that there are hundreds of different types of legal practice
areas out there. And most of us have zero idea what any of them actually are or what lawyers in
them actually do, even when we're heading into law school or as practicing lawyers. And so the
idea behind this series is to give you guys an inside, look into different areas of the law
and really dig into what it means to practice those types of law. But before we dive in,
make sure to check out the what type of law should I practice quiz. So you can first get a sense
of what your natural strengths and abilities and interests may lend themselves to in the practice
of law. So check that out. And with that, let's go ahead and dive in to walk us through what fashion
law is and what it looks like to practice. It is the wonderful Francesca, Witzburg. Francesca is
an award-winning IP and contracts attorney who helps businesses and brands stay protected and
profitable. She represents an array of different industries and fashion clients. Francesca,
thank you so much for being with us. Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you, Angela so much for having me today.
Speaker 1 (01:22): Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. So can you give us the down and dirty version of what fashion law actually is?
Speaker 2 (01:28): Sure. So fashion law is
a really broad term. That's used to encompass a variety of different legal areas. So when people
say they're a fashion lawyer, what it really means is they are attorneys that advise clients
that are in the fashion industry, those clients can be brands, or they could be designers, they
could be startups. It really covers the gamut, but it's just an easy term to capture all of
Speaker 1 (01:53): That. Amazing. Okay. So ten second version
is super incredibly helpful. And then can you give us the slightly longer version of what actually
practicing fashion law might look like? Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes. So I like touched on it briefly, but really there is no technical type of law called fashion
law, right? You are either a generalist or a transactional attorney that advises
clients in the fashion industry, or you are a real estate lawyer import export tax, your litigator,
IP intellectual property. And that's I, what the acronym IP is. So that type of law is typically
more commonly associated with fashion because when you think fashion, you think
design protection and brands and logos, but really, that's definitely a myth. There's a lot of
lawyers who call themselves fashion lawyers that are not just intellectual property lawyers.
Speaker 1 (02:53): Wonderful. And can you walk us through
what a typical week might look like for you when you start, when you stop and some of the projects
you're working on for your fashion clients? Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes. Okay. So being an IP lawyer it means a lot of things I should clarify that, that I really
specialize with trademarks copyrights and then contracts that are related to those two areas.
So my day to day, really just generally speaking involves a lot of clearance work. So when clients
come to me and say, Francesca, I have this new name or a new business name for a product or a
service, I will do a trademark search to see what the risk level is associated with. Use of that
new name. We give them a report and then they say, okay, I wanna go ahead and get it on file.
And then we get it on file. That's a lot of what I do on a day to day basis. And then the
other part is general counseling. So a client who may already have trademarks registered,
they either wanna expand into a new area or a new category, or maybe they're working with brand
partners and influencers. Speaker 2 (04:01):
I'll strategize on how to really structure the deal, some of the terms, and we'll make sure that
all of their rights are protected with those, those right trademarking, copyright filings,
and then also with the contracts. And then specifically for my fashion clients, it's pretty
much the same. Usually it's either, if they're, if they're startup clients, the most important thing
is the name, right, making sure that their name is available. And just because they're, they could be
a designer just because it's your birth name or your legal name doesn't necessarily mean that you
have rights to use that name in connection with clothing. And so that's something that happens
a lot. And when you're dealing with personal name trademarks, there's so much that comes up to it.
We could have a whole conversation about separately, but I generally advise clients on
all of that picking the right name, making sure it's available and then getting it on file.
And then on the copyright side and the design side of things, there's really a lot we can do.
Us law is pretty, is it's pretty challenging to protect fashion designs themselves, but there's
definitely IP tools available. And so that's, my job is when the client comes to me and we look at
their business as a whole, and we figure out what IP tools are available to actually protect their
businesses, their brands and their designs. Speaker 1 (05:23):
Fantastic. And can you let us know what sector of the legal industry you would consider
yourself working in? Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes. So I work for what's called an intellectual property boutique firm.
What that means is we're about 50, about 50 attorneys all over the United States and we
just specialize in intellectual property. We're not a full service firm where we have real estate,
other areas it's just IP. So I work with patent employers and
people who are experts in trade secrets, but my area is trademarks and copyrights. And so
what we're seeing more and more of is I used to work in big law, which is a different sector.
And I moved to an IP boutique firm last year. And what's really been interesting is to see
that clients and the same clients are really still coming to me. So whether or not they
are bigger brands that want more flexible billing arrangements or the specialists that
are at my firm or their startup clients that just need to get a couple trademarks on file.
That's really the, the benefit of working with the boutique firm, you have that flexibility to kind
of run the gamut of any type of fashion client. Speaker 1 (06:36):
All right. So let's get down to the logistics. How much would you say that you typically work?
Speaker 2 (06:42): Ooh, this is such an interesting question because
I feel like I am always working, but the really cool thing about being a partner and being more
entrepreneurial is that, that for me includes all the marketing and the con the, the building of
relationships. So if I had to put a number on that and split my time between business development and
the networking versus actual real, you know, billable legal work, I would say right now at
this point in my career, it's 50 50 because I did leave. I did leave a salaried position
as an associate in big law to become a partner and build a book of business. And I started with
no clients in the middle of the pandemic EV in the middle of lockdown. So I really needed to hustle,
create a social media presence and get clients. So at the beginning, it was honestly, probably like
70% was the marketing and 30% was the legal work. Now I'm gradually getting to more and more of,
of the legal work, which is super exciting and great. But it's, I would say it's about 50 50 when
compared to clearly my other job billables were the most important thing. Yes. Law firms always
encourage associates to do the networking, but when it comes down to it, they really only care
about you hitting your billable hours. Speaker 1 (08:11):
And what would you say a typical day looks like as a big law associate versus now a partner
in an IP litigation boutique? Speaker 2 (08:18):
So one of the major things is that I don't have a salary anymore. it's like, kind of,
I don't know if anyone has heard this before. It said, eat what you kill model, which is kind
of like an interesting, funny a name, but it, it really, it really is great for people who
are energetic and enthusiastic and like the networking and like the business development. And
that was something that I always loved. And like I said, as much as the firm encouraged me to do it
at the end of the day, I had to hit my billables. So you really don't get to prioritize that much
of the networking and all that stuff. Billing is the most important, but now I'm able to actually
spend all that time in the marketing. And for me, that's been, it's been huge. It's a little scary
for people who are thinking about it or who are moving to maybe a, a different type of firm where
you don't have a salary where everything is a percentage of what you bring in and what you work
on, but it has changed my life. It has given me the tools that I need to really thrive personally
and professionally and I and it, and it highlights my skill sets. Like I said, with all of the
things that I like to do all the marketing. And Speaker 1 (09:40):
If you're willing to share with us, how much do you make a year compared now to when you were a
big law associate? Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, I will say so. I was a big law associate in Manhattan and, you know, you can literally Google
what theca and all of the big law white shoe firms starting salaries are, it's probably in the two
hundreds of thousands right now. So it, my salary was definitely around there by being a fifth year
associate, I would say it was in around that range and leaving. It was kind of scary, like,
oh my gosh, I'm giving away this, this salary and the stability to potentially, I don't know,
potentially make no money. Right. That fear is there, but I had confidence in myself and I knew
that I could do this and it really paid off and I will likely be making more than I than I was at my
big law job. Yes. So TBD on that front. Speaker 1 (10:39):
That's amazing. Thank you so much. And I wanted to ask you, what is the,
what would you say is the most fun part of your job and what is the worst part of your job?
Speaker 2 (10:50): Okay. I love like the general counseling. I like
the creative aspect. So I get to brainstorm with clients. It's not just them coming to me
with problems. I like to be a preventative and a proactive lawyer. So I like to catch people early.
A lot of my content is about how to protect things and build like a fortress around your business,
using IP tools and empowering people. So it's really fun when I get them, when they're happy
and excited to actually register their names and protect their businesses and really creative ways.
I hate the litigation aspect. I don't like getting demand letters. I don't like responding to
them. It's, it's just something that clearly being adversarial. I, I don't really enjoy, but when
you're in, when you're an associate, you have to do it all right. Like you do what you're told.
Speaker 2 (11:44): So but now as a partner, I get to decide,
right. And I've made the decision to not really do litigation. And I have amazing partners at
my firm who are able to step in, like, one of my colleagues loves litigation. She's like the nicest
person on the planet and like super smart. So I'm like, okay, here you go. This doesn't stress you
out. You can, you can do all the litigation stuff. And I don't just pass it off. I really cuz I'm
very close to my clients. And I, so I, I manage the litigation. I will still be involved. I'll
still work with the, the litigator to make sure that we're making the right decisions and settling
at the right time or maybe doing the right tactics and keeping budget down. So that part I like,
but not the actual litigation. And Speaker 1 (12:32):
What steps did you take in law school or right after law school to actually get
into fashion law. Speaker 2 (12:40):
It starts in law school. So and my situation is unique, but I, I, I think it's important
for everyone to hear whether or not you're in a big city or you're not. So I worked in,
in Manhattan. I'm sorry. I went to law school in Manhattan at Benjamin Cardoza law, which literally
is in the middle of Manhattan with Parsons right next door and the new school. So it was all really
like fashion and, and, and art and really exciting when I be when I went there and I didn't know
in law school, that that was even a thing that you could actually represent artists and fashion
designers and fashion brands. And it was something so cool that stood out to me very early on
in my one L year. But as everyone knows, who's been through law school, one L isn't really
focused on, oh, got a lawyer. Speaker 2 (13:37):
You wanna be, you have to focus on grades and all that stuff. So but after my one L semester,
I quickly realized I learned how to study. I learned how to get better grades. And so I had
that kind of down. And then I pivoted to think, what internships do I wanna get to set myself
up for job in that type of industry? So I ended up meeting a, a Cardozo alum who was the head
of a company called diamonds international. So it was a jewelry company that they sat in rock center
and he offered me an in-house internship, my one L year, which was really cool. And
I credit all of that to like the networking and the pro the proactiveness that I had as a second
semester, one L and then I leveraged that to be able to apply for, for more fashion internships
so that that's jewelry, but still it's in this like realm of fashion, accessories, all that.
Speaker 2 (14:42): And I interned at Prada for the year.
Then I leveraged that to go on to intern at Tory Burch for the year. So you may be thinking, okay,
Francesca, like I'm not in New York city. And, and it's, it's, it's true. The fact that is,
I was in New York, you could walk down the street and I would be at the Tory Burch office,
but I have an amazing, incredible friend okay. Who went to law school in DC. And she
was determined to be in fashion. She's she's in fashion today. She has an amazing role.
And it's because she decided and said, I'm going to work summers. So she applied for fashion jobs
during the summer internship position. So just because you're not located in a city
where they have these types of jobs, it's okay. You should be messaging people and getting set
up and applying for some jobs during the school years that you can go in the summer. My friend
took it one step further. She wanted the, the annual experience she wanted the spring and
fall semester internship experience at well. So she did semesters at my law school to be able to
take some of the fashion classes that they had and get access to some of those internships. So don't
just say, no, I can't do it because you're limited to where you are. There's ways. If you really want
something bad enough, you can make it happen. Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh my gosh, that's such incredible advice. Thank you so much for sharing all of those stories with
us and to wrap up our conversation about fashion law, what would you personally rate it on a scale
of one to 10 in terms of how much you enjoy it and how much you would recommend it as a practice
area to someone else? Speaker 2 (16:29):
Oh, it's a 10. I mean, especially for intellectual prop, like intellectual property is just a 10
itself. I really love what I do every day. I get to help brands and creative people protect their
businesses, their creations, and these beautiful assets that they've worked. And sometimes,
you know, actually a lot of times they, they are creatives, right? They, they may not know a lot of
the business side or especially the legal side, which can be really complicated. So it's really
great. And I see it as like philanthropic, in a sense to be able to give the law to people
and those type of creatives in a very easy to understand way in helping them protect their
businesses. So, yeah, totally. A 10 Speaker 1 (17:13):
That's so wonderful. Francesca, thank you so much for joining us on today's video. And if
people want to learn more, if they wanna reach out to you, where is the best place to find you
Speaker 2 (17:23): Go to Instagram? I'm at the trademark attorney
on Instagram, and you can click on the link in my bio to find out more about me on my website,
Francescawitzburg.com. Speaker 1 (17:33):
Perfect. Thank you so much, Francesca. I appreciate it so much. Thank you guys
so much for watching. I hope this video was helpful. I hope it gave you some insight into
the practice area of fashion law. And if you guys are interested in checking out
more videos like this one, definitely take a look at these two videos over here. And if you
want to be notified every time that I drop a new video, so you don't miss out on anything,
be sure to subscribe over here and with that guys, I will see you in the next one. Bye.