What’s up guys, Rogue-9 here and as promised, I am forging on with my new Loadout META video
series for Rainbow Six Siege and today I will be taking a closer look at Thatcher’s L85A2
and AR33 rifles to determine once and for all which one is the better choice!
I personally have always been an L85 player.
I like the power and controllability of the gun a lot and the AR33’s lower capacity
always kind of made me think less of it.
But I’ll admit that this preference was based on a snap decision I made shortly after
the release of the game and I never really took the time to dive into all of the stats
to make a truly informed decision.
So I am actually quite excited to see the outcome of this analysis for myself; let’s
get to it!
As always, let me start off by giving you a quick overview of the most important stats
for each gun before we dive into more in-depth analyses of their effectiveness in game.
At a quick glance, we can instantly see why the choice between these two guns is not a
clear cut matter.
Each has their own strengths and weaknesses but overall they seem quite well balanced,
considering they were released at launch, back when (let’s face it) weapons were not
always balanced out all that well.
Damage output is always one of the most important factors to consider and here both guns are
pretty closely balanced and their overall performance comes in very close to the average
for all assault rifles in the game.
Yes, the L85 does more damage at all ranges but its fire rate of only 670 RPM is actually
pretty low; only marginally better than Capitao’s PARA-308 or Nomad’s AK-74M.
The fire rate of the AR33 is quite a lot better although in all fairness, it’s not really
anything amazing either.
The average fire rate for assault rifles as of Operation Wind Bastion is 746.71 RPM and
that places the AR33 pretty much as close to average as you can get.
And all of this results in damage per second output stats for both guns that are very close
to each other as well as very close to the class average of 538 – 313 DPS.
The preliminary conclusion is that, in terms of damage output, we have to very balanced
guns, both compared to each other, as well as compared to the rest of the assault rifles.
But there is of course more to the effectiveness of video game guns than just the damage output.
When taking down an opponent, every gun is basically in a race to cross the 100HP threshold
first and it is always important to consider the Time to Down / Kill separately from the DPS stats.
And at this stage, I will give you fair warning: I promised you some in depth analysis and
this next bit is going to get quite interesting.
So strap in, there’s gonna be some numbers and shit!
We know that the average kill distance in Rainbow Six is consistently around 10m and
at these ranges, both guns will require 3 body shots to down a level 1 or 2 armour opponent.
In fact, the L85 will require 3 shots against all targets except for level 3 armours plus
rook plates, where it will then take 4 shots.
The AR33 on the other hand, will take 4 shots against anyone from level 3 armour and upwards
(so level three or anyone with Rook plates basically).
At longer ranges (35m plus) things actually become simpler since the AR33 will always
take exactly one more shot to deal with an opponent compared to the L85.
Now when we take the fire rates into account to calculate the time to down / kill, at distances
up to 25m, when considering body shots with and without Rook armour as well as leg shots
with and without armour: the AR33 is slightly better in 6 of the possible permutations while
the L85 is better is quite significantly better in the other 6 cases.
So it’s technically 50/50 here but on average across all permutations, the L85 comes out
with a small 14ms advantage.
It’s a small advantage but still.
And that of course is only for distances up to 25m.
After damage drop-off (from 35m and onwards) the L85 is the undisputed winner against all
types of armour, with an average time to down / kill advantage of 48.59ms compared to the AR33.
Long story short (and I do apologise, that was a little bit excessive wasn’t it) despite
the pretty rubbish fire rate, the L85 is actually the slightly more effective gun on average
when considering all types of armour levels, Rook plates leg shots and different distances.
But of course, no matter what skill level you play at, there is still the fact that
a higher fire rate raises the chance of scoring those one-hit-kill headshots.
So that then maybe tilts the advantage slightly towards the AR33 again.
At realistic Siege combat distances the two guns are almost 50/50 anyway and it could
be argued that a higher headshot chance is more valuable than an average TTK advantage of 14ms.
But I feel I’m starting to really split hairs here.
The fact is that both guns are pretty decent in terms of their killing capacity compared
to the rest of the assault rifles and so far, both are really viable choices.
When it comes to capacity the L85 has the standard 30+1 while the AR33 only gets 25+1.
It’s not a huge deficit but still a bit of a disadvantage for the AR.
Reload times are almost identical with the AR33 only getting a 100ms advantage for tactical
reloads, so again: pretty well balanced.
ADS times are also exactly the same at 450ms but of course the AR33 can attach the angled
grip, which then cuts the ADS time down to a really quick 270ms.
The only question is whether or not the ADS time advantage is worth it, considering the
added recoil with not using the vertical grip.
If we look at a recoil comparison for the two guns, we can see that the muzzle climb
is the same for both guns but the AR33 has a somewhat larger randomised recoil diamond,
especially from the forth shot onwards but all in all, the recoil patterns are pretty
similar in their severity.
So using the vertical grip on either weapon basically results in recoil that is similarly
easy to control but as you can see in my brief test footage in the background, even with
the angled grip attached the AR33 remains pretty controllable (at least on PC).
I would conclude here that from a controllability perspective, the angled grip is definitely
viable with just a tiny bit of practice and the concurrent 40% reduction in ADS time can
definitely be a great advantage.
I skipped the hip fire earlier because it made sense to discuss the recoil in combination
with the angled grip choice and there isn’t really much to discuss.
Much like for Ash’s guns, I measured a pixel or two difference between the two options
but at the end of the day, they are virtually identical.
Last and maybe also least, there is one more minor advantage for the L85.
Both guns come with 8 magazines in total for PvP matches but because of the higher capacity
of the L85, you will actually get 40 extra bullets.
To be fair, 201 bullets should really be enough to deal with five opponents but more ammo
could always come in handy, so I will call this a mini advantage.
Conclusion time and let me quickly summarise the findings so far.
Damage output and time to down / kill up to 25m is pretty average for both guns but definitely
better for the L85 at longer ranges.
The AR33 gets the fire rate advantage but lower capacity and total bullet count.
Reload time, hip fire spread and recoil are almost identical, as is the standard ADS time
but if you can handle the angled grip on the AR33, you can gain a major ADS time advantage.
And that for me is the point that my final recommendation really hinges on.
All in all, these two guns are incredibly well balanced and the trade-off is really
better fire rate but smaller magazines for the AR33.
If you really need the vertical grip on the AR33 , I would say that the L85 is maybe just
that little bit more comfortable to use but the AR33 could be just a tiny bit more effective
in the right hands.
If on the other hand you are comfortable sacrificing some muzzle climb control, then picking the
angled grip could just be that advantage that tips the scale decisively in favour of the AR33.
I honestly wouldn’t have thought it when I started working this comparison, since the
L85A2 has always been one of my favourite guns in the game overall, including on Thatcher.
But knowing what I know now, I might just have to give the AR33 with angled grip a serious
try and if it works out, I might just stick with it!
What is your favourite gun to use on Thatcher and what gun comparison do you want me to do next?
Leave your comments below!
I think IQ could make an interesting case study and while I’m comparing the 552 Commando
and AUG A2, I might as well throw in the G8A1 for fun as well.
Or maybe we should look at some sidearm comparisons next, like the GSh-18 vs PMM or LFP586 vs P9?
Anyway, post your requests below and I will schedule in the most requested one!
And with that, as always: I hope you enjoyed the video and I will see you in the next episode!