♪ ♪
>> Stephen: WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
MY FIRST GUEST TONIGHT IS A PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING
JOURNALIST AND BEST-SELLING AUTHOR WHO COVERS RACE, LAW
ENFORCEMENT, AND JUSTICE, AND A CORRESPONDENT FOR "60 MINUTES'"
NEW SERIES ON QUIBI.
PLEASE WELCOME WESLEY LOWERY!
WES, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> OF COURSE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME, STEVE.
>> Stephen: YOU WERE AT GEORGE FLOYD'S MEMORIAL IN MINNEAPOLIS
ON THURSDAY.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE IN THAT CROWD?
>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS REALLY EMOTIONAL.
UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THE JOB I'VE DONE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS,
THIS IS OPPORTUNITY FIRST TIME I'VE GONE TO ONE OF THE FUNERALS
FOR A PERSON WHO'S BECOME A HASHTAG, RIGHT, WHO PEOPLE KNOW
OF.
IN THIS CASE, I WAS STAYING IN THE SAME HOTEL AS GEORGE FLOYD'S
FAMILY AND HAD GOTTEN TO KNOW THEM A BIT, HAD BEEN SPENDING
TIME WITH THEM, HAD CONVERSATIONS IN THE HALLWAY.
I WAS WITH THEM AS THEY PREPARED TO GO OVER, ACTUALLY ROAD OVER
WITH THEM IN MY N NOTEBOOK, WAS TAKING NOTES, AND SAT BEHIND
THEM IN THE FUNERAL.
IT WAS QUITE AN EMOTIONAL AND MOVING EVENT.
THE FIRST OF THE THREE MEMORIALS WASN'T OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, SO
LARGELY DIGNITARIES, ELECTED OFFICIALS, FAMILY MEMBERS AND
CELEBRITIES THAT SHOWED UP.
IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR THE FAMILY MEMBERS, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME
THEY HAD BEEN OUT TALKING ABOUT THE CASE IN PUBLIC SINCE IT
HAPPENED.
>> Stephen: WHEN YOU SAID YOU'D BEEN ON THIS BEAT FOR A
LONG TIME, TELL THE AUDIENCE WHAT'S YOUR HISTORY OF COVERING
THE EXPERIENCE OF BLACK AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY BLACK MEN
AND THEIR ENCOUNTERS WITH POLICE.
>> SURE.
YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS, THIS HAS KIND OF BEEN ONE OF THE STORIES
I SPENT MY ENTIRE CAREER COVERING.
WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AROUND TRAYVON MARTIN AND GOT MY FIRST
WRITING IN THAT CASE.
I WAS WITH "THE WASHINGTON POST" IN 2014 AND GOT ON AN AIRPLANE
TO A TOWN IN MISSOURI, THERE WAS A SHOOTING, PEOPLE WERE UPSET.
I THOUGHT I WAS GOING FOR THREE DAYS AND LIVED THERE THREE
MONTHS.
I SPENT THE NEXT THREE YEARS AS ONE OF THE LEAD REPORTERS ON THE
FATAL FORCE, A PROJECT WE WON THE PULITZER FOR.
IN THAT CASE, WE WANTED TO ANSWER A KEY QUESTION THAT
APPEARED IN TROUTERRING.
I WAS ON THE GROUND IN FERGUSON AND I WAS INTERVIEWING ACTIVISTS
AND DEMONSTRATORS AND I SAID WHAT DO YOU WANT?
WHAT'S THE ISSUE?
THEY SAID, THIS IS AN EMERGENCY, PEOPLE ARE CALLING BLACK MEN IN
THE STREETS EVERY DAY.
I WOULD ASK THE POLICE ABOUT IT AND THEY SAY WE DEFINITELY
AREN'T DOING THAT, NEVER HAPPENS, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
WE REALIZED JOURNALISTICALLY, EITHER THE POLICE WERE KILLING
PEOPLE OR THEY WERE NOT, THAT THERE WAS A FACT THERE THAT WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT.
WHAT WE DISCOVERED IS THAT INFORMATION WASN'T AVAILABLE,
THERE WAS NO FEDERAL OR NATIONAL DATA BASE, WE DIDN'T KNOW
SPECIFICALLY HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY THE POLICE EACH
YEAR.
SO WE LAUNCHED A PROJECT FATAL FORCE, STILL LIVE TO THIS DAY,
WHERE AT "THE WASHINGTON POST" WE MEASURE EVERY ON-DUTY
SHOOTING BY POLICE OFFICERS IN AMERICA.
WE BEGAN TO 2015 AND DID AN ANALYSIS.
HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ARMED, UNARMED, IN A CAR, AND TRIED TO
ASK QUESTIONS OF WHAT MIGHT HELP LIMIT THE NUMBER OF THESE FATAL
ENCOUNTERS BECAUSE HERE'S SOMETHING THAT IS TRUE, EVERYONE
I'VE EVER TALKED TO IN THIS SPACE FROM THE LINE OFFICER TO
THE POLICE CHIEF TO THE ACTIVIST, EVERYONE WANTS TO LIVE
IN A WORLD WHERE THE POLICE DON'T KILL PEOPLE, RIGHT.
SO IF WE WANT TO BUILD THAT WORLD, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW
MANY PEOPLE POLICE KILLED AND WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE SO WE
CAN MAKE TWEAKS.
>> Stephen: DID YOUR RESEARCH BEAR OUT THE ACCUSATION THAT
AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN ARE KILLED AT A HIGHER RATE PROPORTIONAL TO
THEIR POPULATION.
>> CERTAINLY, YES.
WHAT WE FOUND WAS -- WE FOUND TWO THINGS, RIGHT.
FIRST, WE FOUND THAT, IF POLICE USE OF FORCE AND FATAL FORCE
HAPPENS MUCH MORE THAN WE THOUGHT.
EVERY DAY IN AMERICA, THREE PEOPLE ARE SHOT AND KILLED BY A
POLICE OFFICER.
AGAIN, THESE ARE JUST SHOOTINGS.
ERIC GARNER WOULDN'T BE ON THE LIST, SANDRA BLAND AND GEORGE
FLOYD WOULDN'T BE ON THE LIST.
THESE ARE JUST DONEES.
THE VAST MAJORITY ARE ARMED WHITE GUYS.
WHEN WE LOOK AT POPULATION NUMBERS, THAT'S NOT TOO
SURPRISING BECAUSE THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE WHITE GUYS THAN
ANYBODY ELSE SO THAT STARTS TO BEAR ITSELF OUT.
BUT BLACK AMERICANS MAKE UP 12 TO 13% OF THE POPULATION,
MACKMEN 6%, BUT THEY'RE MAKING UP 24% OF THE ARMED POLICE
SHOOTING VICTIMS AND 40% OF THE UNARMED POLICE SHOOTING VICTIM.
SO THIS SMALL POPULATION WHO TOOK TO THE STREET TO SAY LOOKS
LIKE YOU'RE KILLING US ALL THE TIME, STATISTICALLY, THEY HAD A
POINT.
>> Stephen: YOU PUBLISHED "A BREAKING POINT" IN "THE
ATLANTIC" YESTERDAY.
ALL THE REPORTING YOU'VE DONE IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS, WHY WAS
THIS THE BREAKING POINT?
>> I THINK TWO CONCURRENT THINGS HAVE BEEN HAPPENING OVER THE
LAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE BEEN WATCHING THESE VIDEOS
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME WE OPEN THE PHONE THERE'S A NEW VIDEO,
WE HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE'RE GOING TO WATCH IT OR NOT.
FOR BLACK AMERICANS, IT'S BEEN EXTREMELY EXHAUSTING.
THESE WERE EXPERIENCES THEY KNEW WERE HAPPENING BUT WERE GAS LIT
ABOUT IT, NO, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
AND SUDDENLY THEY WERE WATCHING THE VIDEO OVER AND OVER.
THE RE REALITY IS THE WAY I'M TREATED BY A POLICE OFFICER MAY
BE DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY YOU ARE DEPENDING ON THE COLOR OF
OUR SKIN AND THE AGGREGATE REACTION WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
AMERICANS WOULD HAVE HAD TO BELIEVE THE BLACK PEOPLE TO SAY
THAT AND ARE NOW WATCHING IT ON THE PHONE.
AS BLACK AMERICANS GOT INCREASINGLY FED UP, WHITE
AMERICANS GOT INCREASINGLY WOKE.
NO MATTER THE POLITICS, WELL, THAT WAS BAD, OR ANOTHER ONE?
>> Stephen: YOU'RE RIGHT, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS,
REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, BELIEVE THERE IS A PROBLEM OF POLICE
ABUSE OF BLACK AMERICANS.
>> THAT'S NEW, THAT WASN'T TRUE JUST TWO YEARS AGO.
>> Stephen: AND A DOUBLING OF SUPPORT FOR "BLACK LIVES
MATTER."
>> OF COURSE, AGAIN YOU CAN'T DIVORCE THAT FROM THE FACT OF
WHO YOU'RE GOING TO BELIEVE.
SO THE INCLINATIONS OF OPENING TWITTER OR PHONES AND THEY'RE
WATCHING THE VIDEOS THEMSELVES AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT GUY
DOESN'T NEED TO BE DEAD, WHY DID THEY KILL THAT PERSON?
SUDDENLY, IT FORCED PEOPLE TO SEE SOMETHING THAT THEY MIGHT
NEVER SEE OTHERWISE.
>> Stephen: YOU'RE A CORRESPONDENT ON "60 IN 6" WHICH
IS THE SHORT FORM OF "60 MINUTES" GOING TO BE ON QUIBI.
WHAT'S YOUR FIRST STORY?
>> THE FIRST, SECOND AND MAYBE THE THIRD STORY WILL BE FROM
HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS.
IT'S BEEN REPORTING WE'VE DONE HERE ON THE GROUND.
WE'VE DONE A SEGMENT I'M EXCITED FOR THAT LOOKS AT THE LOCAL
HISTORY HERE.
THIS IS NOT■ THE FIRST POLICE SHOOTING HERE, NOT THE FIRST
TIME THERE HAS BEEN MASSIVE PROTESTS.
IT'S ALSO LOOKING AT HOW MANY ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE
STREETS, THEIR IDEOLOGIES HAVE CHANGED, THEY WERE REFORM, AND
CHUCKED THE THING BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK.
SO WE TRACE THE CONVERSATION.
ANOTHER GOOD SEGMENT WITH GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER AND ATTORNEY
BENJAMIN CANDIDATE TRUMP AND SPENT TIME WITH REVEREND
SHARPTON THE MORNING TO HAVE THE EWING AFTER HE FINISHED WRITING
IT AND TALKED TO HIM ABOUT WHAT IS IT IT'S LIKE TO GIVE THESE
EULOGIES.
THOSE ARE THE FIRST TWO BIG PIECES WE'RE PUBLISHING.
>> Stephen: SPEAKING OF PEOPLE WHO COME IN AND WANT TO REFORM
THE POLICE AND WANT TO SHUT IT DOWN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT'S
MEANT BY DEFUND THE POLICE?
>> SURE.
>> Stephen: THAT IMPLIES AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE'S
NOBODY FIGHTING CRIME.
>> IT'S VERY INTERESTING AND WE GET INTO IT SPECIFICALLY IN THIS
SEGMENT.
FOR A LOT OF FOLKS, IT'S CONFUSING.
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN PRESENT IN THIS TYPE OF
ACTIVISM FOR A LONG TIME.
IN MOST MUNICIPALITIES HUGE CHUNKS IF NOT THE MAJORITY OF
THE BUDGET GO TO POLICE DEPARTMENTs, AND THIS IS TRUE
AT A TIME WHEN MOST PEOPLE OF MOST POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES AGREE
THAT THINGS LIKE EDUCATION AND MENTAL HEALTH AND HEALTH CARE
NEED MORE FUNDING, THAT WE KNOW WE HAVE OTHER SOCIAL SYSTEMS
THAT HAVE BEEN GUTTED PRI BY THE RECESSIONS AND ECONOMIC
DOWNTURNS, BUT POLICE ARE SOME OF THE AREAS, SOME HAVEN'T TAKEN
CUTS, BUT SOME CASES THESE DEPARTMENTS GET MORE MONEY EACH
YEAR AND EACH YEAR.
WHEN FOLKS TALK ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE, THEY SAY WHAT IF WE
TOOK $4 MILLION FROM THE POLICE AND GAVE IT TO MENTAL HEALTH
SERVICES?
WOULD THAT MEAN NOW THE POLICE ARE HAVING TO RESPOND TO FEWER
CALLS ABOUT PEOPLE BEHAVING ERRATICALLY?
P WE GAVE $4 MILLION TO TREATMENT.
IN AMERICA, WE HAVE ONE NUMBER IF THERE'S AN EMERGENCY, IF A
CAT IS STUCK IN A TREE, SOMEBODY IS HOLDING YOU AT GUNPOINT,
LOCKED YOUR KEYS IN THE CAR, YOU CAN'T GET YOUR BROTHER TO GO TO
BED.
911, A GUY SHOWS UP.
THERE ARE A LOT OF SCENARIOS WHERE PERHAPS A GUY WITH A GUN
IS NOT THE SOLUTION TO WHATEVER IT IS YOU NEED HELP WITH.
>> Stephen: WES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> SURE, ANYTIME.
>> Stephen: I'LL SEE YOU AT THE CHRISTMAS PARTY IF THERE ARE
EVER PARTIES AGAIN.
>> IF WE'RE EVER ALLOWED IN THE SAME SPACE AGAIN, I LOOK FORWARD
TO IT.
>> Stephen: "60 IN 6" IS STREAMING ON QUIBI THIS SUNDAY.
WESLEY LOWERY, EVERYBODY.
♪ ♪