- Frankly, I find this whole thing a waste of time.
- Questions. - I don't frankly give a damn
what you think of me since I've never heard of you.
- You, and I've never heard of you.
- Then why the hell are you interviewing me?
- You have a book out and it's an--
- [Barron] Ben Shapiro destroys leftist politician.
Ben Shapiro destroys student in liberal debate.
(crowd applauding)
Ben Shapiro gets-- (record scratching)
gets destroyed by BBC's Andrew Neil?
(crowd gasping)
When I saw this I had to dive in.
Ben Shapiro is one of the quickest debaters
on his feet out there right now.
I mean he was in the Harvard debate team,
he's a law student, I think he actually is a lawyer
and he's one of the best on his feet
and there's all these videos that you've probably seen
of him just rollin' people up.
But he went up against this old dude
on the BBC who sounds like he's narrating
some old Sherlock Holmes novel.
But the dude just keeps chucking along at him,
keeps talking over him, bringing up old tweets
and Ben Shapiro eventually melts down so much
that he ends the interview
and takes the microphone off of him.
And in this video we're gonna go through
and break down actually what was going on in their heads
so you can break down and understand socially
the different moves they were making
and how Shapiro ended up getting trapped
in a lot of this and some of the moves
that Shapiro tried to make,
so you can use these strategies in your own life
and not get trapped when someone tries talk down to you.
At the very end of the video I'm gonna give you a way,
if people talk down to you,
like your friends or your boss at work,
that you can come out of that on top
and learn a quick comeback to say.
So, let's dive into this video.
We're gonna watch some of it and then we're gonna go back,
watch it again and break it down.
- Some of the ideas that are popular
in your side of politics,
would seem to take us back to the Dark Ages.
Georgia, new abortion laws,
which you are much in favor of.
That a woman who miscarries could get 30 years.
A Georgian woman who travels to another state
for an abortion procedure could get 10 years.
These are extreme hard policies.
- Well, okay, a couple of things.
One, I'm not sure, I mean frankly I don't know
whether you, are you an objective journalist,
or are you an opinion journalist right now?
- I'm a journalist that asks questions.
- Okay, so you're a supposedly objective journalist,
calling policies with which you disagree barbaric.
- No, I-- - And suggesting only one side
of the political aisle has ideas.
- No. - So I just want to point out
that I wish you'd at least be honest in your own bias
- Mr. Shapiro are you the-- - Are you a member of the--
(tape rewinding)
- A woman who miscarries could get 30 years.
- [Barron] (laughs) Dude, this guy's demeanor
is so funny too, it's like, the way he talks cracks me up.
Just some sophisticated guy who has all the answers,
I love it.
- A Georgian woman who travels to another state
for an abortion procedure could get 10 years.
These are extreme hard policies.
(Troy laughing) - Well, okay,
a couple of things, one, I'm not sure, I mean, frankly
I don't know whether you're, are you an objective journalist
or are you an opinion journalist right now?
- I'm a journalist that asks questions.
- [Barron] OK, so this guy's been around the block
you can tell just in his age and his demeanor,
but he kinda caught Ben there when Ben says,
"which are you, are you objective?"
Are you somebody who actually has a side, right?
'Cause most times in the U.S. Fox News is conservative
and the rest of them are usually pretty liberal,
so he asks him straight up and he just says listen,
basically saying, that's not important.
I'm just asking you questions.
You're the one being interviewed,
so that's a very sharp response.
It was a quick-thinking response to his question
that a lot of people would get put on tilt with.
- I'm not sure, frankly, I don't know whether you're,
are you an objective journalist
or are you an opinion journalist right now?
- I'm a journalist that asks questions.
- OK, so you're a supposedly objective journalist
calling policies with which you disagree barbaric
and suggesting only-- - No, I--
- [Barron] OK, so that was a good thing.
And this actually, this interview
wasn't quite as terrible as I thought it was going to be
when everyone started sending it to me,
but he says, okay, so I'm gonna assume
that you're an objective journalist,
but yet you call the question that you ask me,
one of the practices barbaric.
So clearly when somebody assigns a positive or negative
to something in the question, they're showing a side
on that, right?
He's saying the abortion policy's barbaric,
so Shapiro's basically calling him out and saying,
you're not objective because you said
this is a bad practice and something that has two sides.
So that was quick thinking of Shapiro there, too.
- One side of the political aisle has ideas.
- No. - So I just to point out that.
- No, I know that you're-- - I wish you would at least
be honest in your own biases. - Mr. Shapiro, are your
other broadcasting in America. - Are you a member of the--
- Is now so polarized on one--
- [Barron] Did you see that?
That was interesting, most people aren't able
to talk over Shapiro, but this guy is able to do so and why?
We're gonna go back and watch it again,
but it's because he's like a freight train, right?
He's got a very calm, confident delivery
and he just sounds like he's not gonna stop
and Shapiro recognizes that so he stops.
You hardly ever see that.
- I wish you would at least be honest in your own biases,
so are you a member of the-- - Mr. Shapiro, are your other
broadcasting in America is now so polarized that--
- And life exists at conception, it ought to be protected.
Now back to my question to you.
You purport to be an objective journalist.
BBC purports to be an objective down-the-middle network.
It obviously is not, it never has been,
and you as a journalist are proceeding to call one side
of the political aisle ignorant, barbaric,
and sending us back to the Dark Ages.
Why don't you just say that you're on the left?
Is this so hard for you, why can't you just be honest?
- [Barron] See, I think that's fair.
Like I said, I think Shapiro actually has,
he melts down here in a little bit,
but I think he got some good lines in here
and he's just not gonna let that go,
'cause basically the way Shapiro feels,
this guy just showed his hand, his poker hand at the game
by calling that barbaric and saying
that it's something to take it back to the Dark Ages,
clearly there's negative connotations
to those two comments and he's not gonna let that die.
So as soon as he accepts that he's framed for a minute
and answers the question he's right back on that point.
- Seriously, it's a serious question.
- Mr. Shapiro, if you only knew how ridiculous
that statement is you wouldn't have said it.
- [Barron] Okay, that actually is a powerful statement
even though it doesn't even make sense.
'Cause what Shapiro said makes perfect sense,
but the old dude in the fancy accent says,
sir, if you only realized how ridiculous you sound
you wouldn't have said it.
If you only realized how ridiculous that statement is
you wouldn't have said it.
And we'll see what Shapiro says.
- Let's move on.
- [Barron] (laughs) He doesn't even understand
'cause it does make sense, but just because he says it,
like most people don't critically think
about what going on in a debate
so most people watching this TV show
who are used to the BBC are gonna think,
oh he got him, he told him he's ridiculous
and he would never say that if he realized how dumb it was.
And Shapiro's like, wait, what?
- You vote for Mr. Trump? - I think it's pretty evident
from your own questions exactly what you are, sir.
- Would you vote for Mr. Trump in 2020?
- [Barron] See, he doesn't give him time.
There's so many things going on right here.
So he says that, you wouldn't have made that statement
if you realized how dumb it sounded,
and then is right on to the next question.
So Shapiro, he tries to kind of defend himself and say,
wait, that's exactly what you said,
but this guy's right on to the next question
so he doesn't even really get a chance to drill that home.
- If you only knew how ridiculous that statement is
you wouldn't have said it.
- [Barron] Boom, right onto the next
- So let's move on, would you vote for Mr. Trump?
- I think it's pretty evident from your own questions
exactly what you are, sir.
- [Barron] Just repeats it three times.
- Would you vote for Mr. Trump in 2020?
- I'd certainly consider voting for Mr. Trump in 2020
just like I'd consider voting for anybody else in 2020.
- But didn't you answer you'd never vote for him?
- I said--
- [Barron] So now he's trying to trap him, right?
'Cause he said a long time ago that he would never vote
for Trump and so now this guy's trying to trap him
from some old tweets or old writing.
- That I wouldn't vote for him in 2016,
and then I wrote a column for National Review explaining
the conditions under which I might change my mind.
- You're a culture war warrior, isn't--
- [Barron] The dude is a freight train if he's able
to answer, just straight on to the next question.
- Now, you're a star of new media, conservative new media.
You and others on the left on the right,
you've positioned yourselves as supposed tellers
of hard truths, but haven't you all
just really coarsened public discourse in America
and exacerbated its divisions?
- You know, it's kind of odd to be hearing about me
coarsening public discourse
when you call policies you disagree with brutal
and bringing us back to the Dark Ages.
- [Barron] (laughs) So once again, this entire interview
he caught that guy slipping up.
He's not gonna let him leave it.
- The point, I don't want to return to,
but the point was to put a position for you to reply to it
and I thought we'd covered that.
- That's, well I think that-- - Well, I'll put
some of the points, too, because on your videos--
- Your characterization of issues is part of the problem
in the coarsening of public debate.
- Well, maybe it's also part of your problem, too
because we have from your YouTube videos,
Ben Shapiro destroys the abortion argument.
Ben Shapiro destroys transgenderism and abortion.
Is that not a kind of coarse public discourse?
- Well, are those videos labeled by me?
- I have no idea, but they're--
- Why are you picking out,
I have a question, why are you picking out
random YouTube videos put out by people who are not me
and then attributing the titles to me?
- Are you unhappy with the way they've been described?
- [Barron] (laughs) So the old guy
is not gonna let that slide
so Shapiro says, listen, those aren't even my videos.
How are you pulling those, why are you even reading me
the titles, nothing to do with me,
but Shapiro has said in the past
that he loves those videos that go up.
I don't know if this guy's really done that much research
and knows that, but now he holds his feet to the fire
by saying, well, do you like 'em or not?
- I think that people can describe me however they please.
It's a free country and I'm all in favor of a public debate.
If you watch the actual clips
they are generally civil conversations
between me and somebody who disagrees with me.
- Well, again with Mr. Obama you said,
and you're Jewish yourself, I only mention that
to put this in context.
"The Jews who vote for Obama are, by and large,
"Jews in name only."
JINOs, you call them.
- My statement was based on the fact
that Jews in the United States as an ethnic group
are largely irreligious, which is true by every single poll.
Jews are the most irreligious group in the United States.
As an Orthodox Jew who actually takes Judaism seriously,
the point that I am making is that most Jews
who are ethnically Jewish are not religiously Jewish
in any context. - No, no, no.
The point you were making is that Jews who vote for Obama
are Jews in name only.
I mean, I guess-- - Also, I'm just,
I mean I hope you're having--
- [Barron] (laughs) And so now you can see he's had enough
'cause this guy just constantly
is just asking these ridiculous questions,
gives no response, and is just calling up old things he said
and I think the whole thing about the Jewish religion
is really starting to get under his skin, so watch him now.
I think this is when he starts to melt down.
- Fun by the way going through every old tweet
that I've ever sent to try and do gotcha questions,
but if you'd like to have a discussion
about my general philosophy or things I've done and say.
I don't know, that was 2012, so it's now 2019.
If you'd like to discuss something I've done in, say,
like the past five years, why don't we do that?
How about that? - Well--
- [Barron] And it takes a lot to get him emotionally rattled
even though he's trying to kind of keep it together.
This is about as mad as I've seen him on TV before.
- Because your book is a criticism
of how angry America is and how America has to do better.
And I'm simply trying to point out--
- I have an entire list on my website, sir, sir,
on my list I have an entire website on dumb,
bad things that I've said. - I'm simply trying
to point out some of the things you've said
that seem to me to help to stoke that anger.
For example, you said Israelis like to build.
- [Barron] He goes right back into it. (laughs)
- Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage.
- Well as I say, in an article entitled,
Here's A List Of All The Giant, Bad,
Dumb Things I've Ever Said, that list includes--
- Was that dumb? - Yes, that's a dumb tweet.
And not only, but it is also important to mention
that the next few tweets clarify that that tweet
is specifically referring to the Hamas leader--
- [Barron] You hear how worked up he's getting?
And another thing important to understand,
how worked up is he compared to the person he's talking to
'cause usually your emotional state and emotional reactivity
is always compared to the other person.
The person who reacts the least
typically has the highest status.
The other dude, just unflappable.
He hasn't changed his tone, his speed at all
and you can see Shapiro speeding up, getting more tense,
getting more nervous, and getting more agitated.
- No, actually, it wasn't what you went on to do and say.
You are correct about the slur on Arabs.
It's not all Arabs that want to live in open sewage
and blow things up, it's just Palestinians,
you went on to say. - No, no, no, it says the ones
who take sides against Israel - And then you said--
- In the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
- The Palestinian-Arab population is rotten to the core,
you went on to say, not Hamas. - Say by, I say by--
- The Palestinian-Arab--
- [Barron] Listen to this guy just talk over him.
Shapiro knows he can't stop him
so he's not even trying anymore.
Once this guy start talking, he's not stopping
'til he's said his peace. - Population.
- I say that by poll numbers they elected Hamas.
They elected Hamas, they educate their children
in school that Israel should be obliterated, sir.
- I guess-- - If you want to read,
you know, honestly, this is a giant waste of time.
- [Barron] So now he's gettin' angry, you can hear it.
Now he's breaking off, he's considering leaving.
I think he's wanting to leave right now.
- In the sense that the entire interview
is designed for you to shout slogans
or old things that I've said at me.
I don't see how forwards the debate.
You talk about undermining the public discourse.
It seems to me that simply going through
and finding lone things that sound bad out of context
and then hitting people with them is a way for you
to make a quick buck on BBC off the fact
that I'm popular and no one has ever heard of you.
- [Barron] (laughs) Okay, so that, I mean, that's funny
and that's coherent, right?
He's saying, 'cause really all this guy has done
has been pull up old things he said.
It's not even like in the same context,
he's trying to tie it all back together
to the polarity of the political system in the United States
but he's just using that as kind of a framework
to be able to pull anything that he wants that he said
that is someone extreme, and Shapiro very competently
and kind of elegantly called that out,
but then how did he end it?
You know he's getting mad when he makes a personal attack
and says he's never even heard of him.
- There are not many bucks to be made on the BBC,
unlike American broadcasting, Mr. Shapiro.
The point I'm trying to make-- - You're getting paid,
it seems. - Is that your words
are hardly designed to produce the consensus
and understanding that the book seems to want to produce.
That's my point, that you write
about Judeo-Christian culture and so on.
- [Barron] Look at his body language.
Go back and watch that again.
He can't even sit still he's so angry, that's such a tell.
And you look this frame right now.
His finger is on his cheek.
Anytime you put your hand over your face or on your face,
on your neck and the back of the neck
is actually the highest stress tell.
He's under major stress right now
and he's showing it with all his body language.
- The book seems to want to produce, that's my point,
that you write about Judeo-Christian culture and so on,
but so much of what you said in the past would seem to--
- [Barron] He's trying to keep it together.
- [Andrew] Turn its back on Judeo-Christian culture.
- You're lecturing me on Judaeo-Christian culture
after you called the pro-life position barbaric, really?
- I just asked you a question. - And I asked you a question.
You failed to answer a single one of mine.
Frankly, I find this whole thing a waste of time.
If you want to read the book and critique the book,
why don't you read and critique the book?
If you want critique me, you can think whatever you want
of me, frankly I don't care. - Why don't you just try
and answer the questions? - I don't frankly give a damn
what you think of me since I've never heard of you.
- And I've never heard of you
until I briefed myself with this, but that's--
- [Barron] OK, so that's his little comeback.
I've never heard of you either.
So he's trying to, he's clearly getting a little bit
more worked up, the old dude.
This may be about as worked up as he gets,
but he's getting a little bit,
it's kind of a personal attack.
He said twice he doesn't know who he is.
- Not the issue, you have a new book out.
- Then why the hell are you interviewing me, sir?
- And it's an interesting book, but my point is, your book
claims that society-- - Well, it would be nice
if you would quote it from time to time.
- Your book, well actually I've done so several times,
and I'm about to do so again if you would let me
just finish the question.
- [Barron] (laughs) He says that like Shapiro's
been talking over him the whole interview,
as if that old dude hasn't just been steamrolling him
the whole time. - Frankly I don't think--
- Claims that society-- - And you know what, honestly
honestly, sir. - Is turning back
on Judaeo-Christian values. - Considering what a--
- What are the values it's turning this back on--
- [Barron] The guy's so good at talking over him
that he knew Shapiro was going to leave right there,
just keeps on talking through
and he actually sucks Shapiro back in a little bit longer.
Let's watch, let's watch when we can tell
that he wanted to leave. - Your book is,
well actually I've done so several times
and I'm about to do so again if you would let me
just finish the question.
The book claims that society-- - I don't think this,
you know what, honestly, sir-- - Is turning its back--
- [Barron] All right, so he knows he wants to leave
right there. - On Judaeo-Christian values.
- This, considering what-- - What are those values,
what are the values it's turning its back on?
- [Barron] By the way, I've got a video.
People talk over you and you have a hard time,
I think Shapiro needs to watch this video
after seeing this now, too.
I've got three ways that when anybody talks over you
there's three strategies you can use to shut 'em down
so you can keep talking.
I'll put a link to that in the description below
and also a card up top here if you want to watch that video.
- You know, I'm not inclined to continue an interview
with a person as badly motivated as you as an interviewer,
so I think we're done here.
I appreciate your time sir, thank you so much.
- All right, well thank you for your time
and for showing that anger is not part
of American political discourse.
Now Mr. Shapiro, we'll say goodbye.
- [Barron] Wow, and so he closes it down
with a final slap in the face.
Thank you for showing that anger
is not a part of the American discourse
when he got so worked up.
I've never seen Shapiro actually walk out
and unplug a microphone before, that's something.
Now, Shapiro is definitely under attack right there.
And if you ever have people who make fun of you
or put you down, maybe your friends talk down to you,
make you feel a little bit small
or maybe your boss or a co-worker talks down to you
and you can't think of a quick comeback,
I've got a video for that, too.
I'll put a link in the description
or you can click right here to watch it
and I'll teach you what you can do
to kind of person that person in place.
Or, if you haven't seen this video of Shapiro
on the other side where he's going up against Bill Maher
and he makes a little bit better case for his chatter,
you can click right here.
Click to either of those and I'll talk to you there.