>>> WELCOME BACK. EDWARD SNOWDEN’S DECISION TO GO
PUBLIC ON HIS ONCE SECRET WORLDK
FOR OUR GOVERNMENT PUT
EVERYTHING HE KNEW AT RISK.
HIS LIFE IN AMERICA, HIS JOB AND
HIS PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS.
HERE NOW, MORE OF OUR
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION. WHERE DO YOUR PARENTS COME DOWN
ON WHAT YOU DID?
IN THE BOOK, WE LEARN A LOT MORE
THAN WE KNEW ABOUT THEM.
THEY WERE BOTH -- WE SAY THIS IN
QUOTE, DEEP STATERS.
WE LEARN THAT THEY BOTH HAD
VARYING DEGREES OF SECURITY
CLEARANCES IN THEIR LIVES.
>> AH, YEAH.
I COME FROM A FEDERAL FAMILY.
MY FATHER WORKED FOR THE
MILITARY, MY MOTHER WORKED FOR
THE COURTS.
THE COURTS. MY WHOLE LINE, GOING BACK, HAS
WORKED IN THE GOVERNMENT
SERVICE.
SERVICE. SO, I THINK THIS WAS DIFFICULT
FOR THEM.
FOR THEM. AND, IN FACT, ONE OF THE THINGS
I WILL BE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL FOR
IS THEY STILL STAND BY ME TODAY
AND BELIEVE I DID THE RIGHT
THING.
THING. >> YOU PAINT A PORTRAIT OF WHAT
SOME OF US KNEW, AND THAT WAS
THAT YOU WERE A THOROUGHLY
AMERICAN KID IN YOUR UPBRINGING.
YOU WAKE UP EVERY DAY IN RUSSIA,
YOU GO TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT IN
RUSSIA.
RUSSIA. ARE YOU ACTIVELY SEEKING TO GET
OUT?
OUT? ARE YOU, AS HAS BEEN REPORTED,
LOOKING FOR ASYLUM ELSEWHERE?
>> WELL, THIS IS NOT AN ACTIVELY
SEEKING, THIS IS NOT A NEW
THING.
THING. AND THIS IS IMPORTANT HISTORY,
ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO
DON’T LIKE ME.
FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME,
WHO HAVE HEARD TERRIBLE THINGS
ABOUT ME.
ABOUT ME. IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO END
UP IN RUSSIA.
I WAS GOING TO LATIN AMERICA AND
MY FINAL DESTINATION WAS
HOPEFULLY GOING TO BE ECUADOR.
I APPLIED FOR ASYLUM IN 27
DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AROUND THE
WORLD.
WORLD. PLACES LIKE FRANCE AND GERMANY,
PLACES LIKE NORWAY, THAT I FELT
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC COULD BE
COMFORTABLE, THAT WAS FINE FOR A
WHISTLEBLOWER TO BE IN, AND YET
EVERY TIME ONE OF THESE
GOVERNMENTS GOT CLOSE TO OPENING
THEIR DOORS, THE PHONE WOULD
RING IN THEIR FOREIGN MINISTRIES
AND ON THE OTHER END OF THE LINE
WOULD BE A VERY SENIOR AMERICAN
OFFICIAL.
OFFICIAL. IT WAS ONE OF TWO PEOPLE.
THEN SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN
KERRY OR THEN VICE PRESIDENT JOE
BIDEN.
BIDEN. AND THEY WOULD SAY, LOOK, WE
DON’T WARE WHAT THE LAW IS, WE
DON’T CARE IF YOU CAN DO THIS OR
NOT, WE UNDERSTAND THAT
PROTECTING WHISTLELE BLOWBLOWERS
MATTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND YOU
COULD DO THIS IF YOU WANT TO.
BUT IF YOU PROTECT THIS MAN, IF
YOU LET THIS GUY OUT OF RUSSIA,
THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES.
WE’RE NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT
THEY’RE GOING TO BE, BUT THERE
WILL BE A RESPONSE.
I CONTINUE, TO THIS DAY, TO SAY,
LOOK, IF THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT, IF THESE COUNTRIES,
ARE WILLING TO OPEN THE DOOR,
THAT IS NOT A HOSTILE ACT.
THAT IS THE ACT OF A FRIEND.
IF ANYTHING, IF THE UNITED
STATES CONTINUE IS SO CONCERNED
ABOUT RUSSIA, RIGHT, SHOULDN’T
THEY BE HAPPY FOR ME TO LEAVE?
AND YET WE SEE THEY’RE TRYING SO
HARD TO PREVENT ME FROM LEAVING.
I WOULD ASK YOU, WHY IS THAT?
>> I’M GUESSING JOE BIDEN IS NOT
YOUR CANDIDATE FOR 2020.
>> ACTUALLY, I DON’T TAKE A
POSITION ON THE 2020 RACE.
LOOK, IT’S A DIFFICULT POSITION.
BEING IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
IT’S A DIFFICULT DECISION BEING
IN POWER AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE
UNPOPULAR DECISION.
UNPOPULAR DECISION. >> WHAT IF SOMEONE SAID HELP US
HARDEN OUR ELECTIONS FROM ATTACK
USING YOUR SKILLS.
>> I WOULD VOLUNTEER FOR THAT
INSTANTLY.
INSTANTLY. YOU KNOW, THEY WOULDN’T EVEN
HAVE TO PAY ME FOR THAT.
REMEMBER, I VOLUNTEERED TO WORK
FOR THE CIA, FOR THE NSA.
WHEN I CAME FORWARD TO REVEAL
MASS SURVEILLANCE, WHICH WE NEED
TO BE CLEAR, THE COURTS HAVE
FOUND WAS, IN FACT, UNLAWFUL ON
THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT AND
ONE COURT SAID LIKELY
UNCONSTITUTIONAL, SO, I HAVE NO
OBJECTION TO HELPING THE
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. I CAME FORWARD NOT TO BURN THE
NSA DOWN.
NSA DOWN. I CAME FORWARD TO REFORM IT, TO
HELP IT RETURN TO THE IDEALS
THAT WE’RE ALL SUPPOSED TO
SHARE.
SHARE. SO, THERE WILL BE NEVER BE A
QUESTION OF WHEN MY GOVERNMENT
IS READY, WHEN MY GOVERNMENT
WANTS ME TO HELP, I WILL BE
THERE.
THERE. >> ED SNOWDEN, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
MUCH. GOOD LUCK WITH THE BOOK.
>> MY PLEASURE, BRIAN, THANK YOU
FOR HAVING ME.
>> EDWARD SNOWDEN, THE AUTHOR OF