So what our audience don't
know is that we've walked into what has been
a gushing, an outpouring of emotion. You're crying.
Jennifer's also quite upset, but Reverend,
this is off the back of what you were just talking about.
Tell us why — even in an event like this,
that feels so clinical, that feels so out of any proportion —
it's still important to touch people's hearts
and their souls when it comes to climate justice?
You're hearing a lot of rhetoric,
but here we're talking about lives. We're talking
about futures of children.
We're talking about gross injustice. And all of that's
being greenwashed, with smiles and numbers thrown around.
And if nothing happens, if nothing changes,
if nothing concrete happens in the next few weeks,
our future is gone.
And that's our reality.
The climate crisis is fundamentally
about the climate injustices, and that is a human rights issue.
And I — and the problem is, in spaces like this,
there is just so much emphasis, and resources that are being
poured into the narrative of what the implementation frameworks
of all these climate policies should look like.
It just disconnects so much
from the realities of the disproportionate impacts
that the vulnerable groups in the global south,
and also the poor
and racially marginalized in the global north, are facing.
And that's a human rights violations.
Greenpeace and Greenpeace
International have been focusing on the issue of island nations
and the issue of social justice as well as climate justice,
but today feels different, in the presence of you two.
Why is that? – Well, I think — look,
it is about very — existence of places.
It's about people's homes, it's about their cultures,
it's about their graveyards, it's about all of that.
That's — and that being at stake.
And then you have a prime
minister — and now we have documentation of this —
who was clearly using
every mechanism that he has to bully and to divert
attention away from him.
And I just think the morality of it is just so deep.
And it goes beyond — yeah, it's social, and climate
and all of those things.
But when it comes down to it, it's like, what is, what is —
it's just shameful. It's just shameful.
As as representatives of island nations that have for too long
been disenfranchized
or manipulated, and your positions used to further the
the wealth and benefit of those in the global north,
you must be a little ticked off. A little bit ticked off.
And I just want to —
I just want to understand how steady focus and activism is
part of that. Today is an outpouring of emotion,
but the future is something that's in
both of your minds, deeply.
There is a righteous anger
because of the immorality of what is happening.
And you've said it rightly.
We — I mean, we're in a place also, Scotland,
that has been exploited and been colonized.
Just a few days ago, I was at
a climate change memorial at the Bank of England, right
in the heart of colonization and capitalism.
And a reminder of what happens when the rhetoric continues.
And in this day and age, that's what happens.
And you know, when we talk about the future
for our sisters and brothers that are refugees,
you can understand that when things
get better in your homeland, you can go back.
That will not happen in the context of climate change.
Because for many of our communities —
already being experienced in coastal communities, in low-lying
atolls — there will be no place to go back to.
So if we don't act now, if we don't act now, it's over.
Thank you, Reverend, for actually reminding us that,
you know, a lot of this plays out in our colonial histories,
and this is explicitly being recognized
in international climate law and policy.
That the global north has a historical responsibility
to pay for the damage it's caused,
and for its continuing emissions that are impacting our lives
so significantly. And this is what they're not doing.
Just for the last question,
and before I get to the last point:
We in the global north — I count myself as one of those;
I was a refugee from Afghanistan, but I now benefit
wholeheartedly from my life in the global north —
it feels like we almost have to accept,
pay reparation where it's due, create frameworks
that are based on equality rather than equity.
And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that. What is —
what is — what does the future look like for this movement?
I mean, I think the future is righteous anger,
and I think it's not just that.
it's about taking the corporations and the company —
and the countries to court, to pay for the damages —
– Is that what Greenpeace is committing to?
Absolutely. We are —
we are doing it now, and we will continue,
whether it be for countries, whether it be for youth.
There's been a recent decision in Germany where
the Supreme Court found in favor of young people
and ordered the government
to increase its ambition to avoid climate chaos there.
And that's in Germany. Imagine what it's like in another place.
So this is, you know — that's what — look.
Whether it be in the courtroom,
whether it be in the
political lobbying, whether it be out on the streets,
we will be there. And we are not going away.
And there is too much at stake, and we are strong.
Thank you so much for talking to me at Doha Debates.
I really appreciate your time.